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  #791  
Old July 23rd, 2005, 02:50 PM
Timothy Kroesen
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Pay for a Cuban cigar lately? Nicotine is reportedly just as addictive
as heroin. Let's use another example; a quarter ounce of decent
marijuana goes for Forty dollars locally and most users would consider
this a weeks supply today. A carton of Marlboros is currently within a
dollar of this; again a weeks supply for most users...

Will users pay "drug prices" for tobacco? They do now; it's a drug
after all.

Tim K

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:20:39 +0100, "Andy Pandy"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
news
As, on average, low earners smoke more should we reduce the
tax on ciggies?

Indeed, reducing cigarette tax would be one of the most effective

ways of
reducing the tax on the poor.

and reducing the population. Why not sell only high tar brands too?
Packets could contain the words "Non Smokers are wimps".


Yup. I'm not saying it's a good idea to reduce the tax, but cigarette

tax is
even more regressive than council tax and does hit the poor who smoke

very hard.

Maybe the sale of tobacco should be banned, I can't imagine anybody
paying drug prices for a cigarette.


--
Martin


  #792  
Old July 23rd, 2005, 06:36 PM
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
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Andy Pandy wrote:

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
wrote in message
news:1h05j0e.13lttb815dwlcmN%this_address_is_for_s ...

[]
Well, my decision to not own a car (and also stop driving altogether) is
more for environmental reasons I admit, but it's far cheaper for me not
to have a car as well. Basically, if you don't need a car for travelling
to and from work during the week, it will rarely be cheaper to own one,
as I've calculated it.


It depends - if you have a family then you need to multiply public transport
costs.


That's true, though children will usually travel cheaper, and for
leisure travel, there are significant incentives for family travel-
thinking of the family railcard for example.

It would be considerably more expensive for us not to have a car, and
there are places we go where it would be difficult, expensive and/or time
consuming to reach by PT. Also when going on holiday etc there are the
practicalities of lugging a families worth of baggage around.


Sure, and my point here isn't to tell anyone what to do, but I do notice
families going on holiday by public transport. Of course, many holidays
are by their very nature like this- foreign holidays for example-
including air travel (if hardly environmental!) in public transport.

[]
There are many places, even
near me, where it would be very difficult to get around by using just
public transport. That said, I think that it's up to all of us (for the
sake of the environment) to try harder to use alternatives. We walk to
our local supermarket- but I'd suspect we're in the minority on that-
most people drive, even when they live closer to it than we do.


I'll suggest that to my wife - but I don't think she'll be too impressed
by the idea of carrying the £200 monthly shop back from your Tesco's even
though it's less than a mile :-)


That's a good point. Then again, I tend to shop pretty regularly- the
trip to Tesco's and the markets are built into my excercise regime!
If I went less often, I'd do what I notice a few people do anyway- walk
there, take a taxi back!

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
  #793  
Old July 24th, 2005, 10:03 AM
The Reids
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Following up to Martin

Who seem to have satellite TV too, judging from the number of dishes
on houses in poor areas


why shouldnt poor people have satellite TV?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
  #794  
Old July 24th, 2005, 10:03 AM
The Reids
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Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco

Well, my decision to not own a car (and also stop driving altogether) is
more for environmental reasons I admit, but it's far cheaper for me not
to have a car as well. Basically, if you don't need a car for travelling
to and from work during the week, it will rarely be cheaper to own one,
as I've calculated it. Of course, I made specific decisions as where to
live based on the local transport available. There are many places, even
near me, where it would be very difficult to get around by using just
public transport. That said, I think that it's up to all of us (for the
sake of the environment) to try harder to use alternatives. We walk to
our local supermarket- but I'd suspect we're in the minority on that-
most people drive, even when they live closer to it than we do.


why not get a Prius or something?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
  #795  
Old July 24th, 2005, 10:12 AM
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
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The Reids wrote:

Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco

Well, my decision to not own a car (and also stop driving altogether) is
more for environmental reasons I admit, but it's far cheaper for me not
to have a car as well. Basically, if you don't need a car for travelling
to and from work during the week, it will rarely be cheaper to own one,
as I've calculated it. Of course, I made specific decisions as where to
live based on the local transport available. There are many places, even
near me, where it would be very difficult to get around by using just
public transport. That said, I think that it's up to all of us (for the
sake of the environment) to try harder to use alternatives. We walk to
our local supermarket- but I'd suspect we're in the minority on that-
most people drive, even when they live closer to it than we do.


why not get a Prius or something?


That would perhaps be an option for someone who needed the car. I don't.
I really prefer my life without one.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
  #796  
Old July 24th, 2005, 11:52 AM
Andy Pandy
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"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
wrote in message
news:1h060ti.zzgx2u3v4ieaN%this_address_is_for_spa ...
Well, my decision to not own a car (and also stop driving altogether) is
more for environmental reasons I admit, but it's far cheaper for me not
to have a car as well. Basically, if you don't need a car for travelling
to and from work during the week, it will rarely be cheaper to own one,
as I've calculated it.


It depends - if you have a family then you need to multiply public transport
costs.


That's true, though children will usually travel cheaper, and for
leisure travel, there are significant incentives for family travel-
thinking of the family railcard for example.


Yes, and increasingly PT companies are cottoning onto this - if they want to
compete with cars then they need to compete with the fact that 5 people in a car
costs the same as one. On the metrolink they now have family tickets which for
some journeys are less than the price of two adult tickets.

But in general, going to somewhere other than a city centre, going by car is
cheaper, easier and much quicker.

It would be considerably more expensive for us not to have a car, and
there are places we go where it would be difficult, expensive and/or time
consuming to reach by PT. Also when going on holiday etc there are the
practicalities of lugging a families worth of baggage around.


Sure, and my point here isn't to tell anyone what to do, but I do notice
families going on holiday by public transport. Of course, many holidays
are by their very nature like this- foreign holidays for example-
including air travel (if hardly environmental!) in public transport.


Yes - but airports cater very well for luggage with trolleys everywhere, large
lifts, large luggage areas on trains/buses to airports etc. The metro's not too
bad, we've gone by metrolink to the airport via Piccadilly before with loads of
luggage, but I wouldn't like to get on a First Manchester 137 bus with the
amount of luggage we take on holiday!

There are many places, even
near me, where it would be very difficult to get around by using just
public transport. That said, I think that it's up to all of us (for the
sake of the environment) to try harder to use alternatives. We walk to
our local supermarket- but I'd suspect we're in the minority on that-
most people drive, even when they live closer to it than we do.


I'll suggest that to my wife - but I don't think she'll be too impressed
by the idea of carrying the £200 monthly shop back from your Tesco's even
though it's less than a mile :-)


That's a good point. Then again, I tend to shop pretty regularly- the
trip to Tesco's and the markets are built into my excercise regime!
If I went less often, I'd do what I notice a few people do anyway- walk
there, take a taxi back!


But that's no more environmentally friendly as the taxi will then probably go
back to the supermarket - or elsewhere - for his next fare...

But I agree that people use their cars far too much for short journeys just
because they are too lazy to walk.

When my daughter started nursery half a mile away, I always walked her there,
pushing my one year old son in his pushchair. A few doors down was a girl who
went to the same nursery - and most mornings we walked past her as she was
struggling getting her 3 year old and toddler into the car and belted up. I'd
shout "Morning". 5 minutes later they'd pass me on the main road. 10 minutes
after that we'd arrive at the nursery, and usually she'd get there *after* us,
having had to park up probably 100 yards away and then had to get the buggy out
of the boot and set it up for the toddler....

--
Andy


  #797  
Old July 24th, 2005, 06:58 PM
DDT Filled Mormons
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 10:56:23 +0100, The Reids
wrote:

Following up to DDT Filled Mormons

do they? They tell us our longer life expectation is increasing
health costs, so surely dying early saves money.


It's a long, slow, expensive death which diverts resources from those
that don't smoke. Smokers are also less productive, due to time taken
off for cigarette breaks.


do non smokers not have slow deaths? Don't plenty of smokers have
heart attacks? That's what we should be encouraging, no cost at
all if the ambulance is slow.


Sick smokers require a lot of intensive care. This is very expensive.
Also, as the general condition on smokers bodies is poor, other types
of medical care, such as surgery and childbirth, and far more prone to
problems, thus more costly in terms of time and money.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
  #798  
Old July 25th, 2005, 08:57 AM
The Reids
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Following up to Andy Pandy

When my daughter started nursery half a mile away, I always walked her there,
pushing my one year old son in his pushchair. A few doors down was a girl who
went to the same nursery - and most mornings we walked past her as she was
struggling getting her 3 year old and toddler into the car and belted up. I'd
shout "Morning". 5 minutes later they'd pass me on the main road. 10 minutes
after that we'd arrive at the nursery, and usually she'd get there *after* us,
having had to park up probably 100 yards away and then had to get the buggy out
of the boot and set it up for the toddler....


there's a person in my road who drives to the school in a 4x4,
the school is also in our road, they often park near my house,
only a few yards nearer the school than their own house. It
amazes me that they do this, not only because its completely
stupid, but also that they don't know they are fulfilling the
stereotype of the selfish 4x4 driver. Presumably in their tiny
minds they think arriving by 4x4 gives status?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
  #799  
Old July 25th, 2005, 08:57 AM
The Reids
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Following up to DDT Filled Mormons

do non smokers not have slow deaths? Don't plenty of smokers have
heart attacks? That's what we should be encouraging, no cost at
all if the ambulance is slow.


Sick smokers require a lot of intensive care. This is very expensive.
Also, as the general condition on smokers bodies is poor, other types
of medical care, such as surgery and childbirth, and far more prone to
problems, thus more costly in terms of time and money.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
--

The allotment holder next door to me was a heavy smoker, he
dropped dead with a heart attack, my mother, a non smoker, had
years and years of low level care from health and social services
plus pension payments before she died. I am not convinced smoking
costs us money.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
  #800  
Old July 25th, 2005, 09:03 AM
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Reids wrote:

[]
there's a person in my road who drives to the school in a 4x4,
the school is also in our road, they often park near my house,
only a few yards nearer the school than their own house. It
amazes me that they do this, not only because its completely
stupid, but also that they don't know they are fulfilling the
stereotype of the selfish 4x4 driver. Presumably in their tiny
minds they think arriving by 4x4 gives status?


As a pedestrian who frequently visits schools in different parts of the
country, I'm often a little alarmed at the traffic conditions around
schools during the 'school run' times. People park illegally, double
park, all manners of silly things, just while they drop their kid(s)
off. It surely can't be safe?

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
 




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