Longshoremen Put in Cuffs!

Plasma wrote:
Letting the Longshoremen aboard the ship seems like a significant security
risk to me!
Good for Carnival!

Mike in Ohio




I had the same thought, Mike. Wouldn't be that hard to snag a
longshoreman's ID, have a bomb in a suitcase, and easily walk it on
board.

Sean wrote:

Plasma wrote:

Letting the Longshoremen aboard the ship seems like a significant security
risk to me!
Good for Carnival!

Mike in Ohio




I had the same thought, Mike. Wouldn't be that hard to snag a
longshoreman's ID, have a bomb in a suitcase, and easily walk it on
board.


Isn't luggage scanned?

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:10:32 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:

Isn't luggage scanned?

Hi,

Yes the luggage is supposed to be scanned as SOP.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Thats true.....but where is it scanned? May be a weak link somewhere
in the chain if someone had an inside credentials as a longshoreman.

Seems to me that the less number of people coming on board , the better
the security.

Come on folks, be real. All the baggage
scanning, etc. is to present the
illusion of security. Have you ever seen
the crates and crates of stuff loaded
aboard without so much as a check of the
contents.
Go ahead, confiscate my 2" bladed Swiss
Army Knife and then give me a 8" bladed
steak knife to use with my meal.
Cheers,
John

Sean wrote:
Thats true.....but where is it scanned? May be a weak link somewhere
in the chain if someone had an inside credentials as a longshoreman.

Seems to me that the less number of people coming on board , the better
the security.

Whats a "longshoreperson"


wrote in message
oups.com...
Please make a note. In the interest of political correctness, it is
longshorepersons, not longshoremen.

Did Carnival sign a contract with the longshorepersons? If yes, then
the longshorepersons union should file a federal labor complaint with
the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) or sue in Federal court. If,
on the other hand, Carnival did not sign a contract with the union,
then the union and the longshorepersons it represents may be SOL.

John

And no, PC sucks.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Please make a note. In the interest of political correctness, it is
longshorepersons, not longshoremen.

Did Carnival sign a contract with the longshorepersons? If yes, then
the longshorepersons union should file a federal labor complaint with
the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) or sue in Federal court. If,
on the other hand, Carnival did not sign a contract with the union,
then the union and the longshorepersons it represents may be SOL.

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
Please make a note. In the interest of political correctness, it is
longshorepersons, not longshoremen.

Did Carnival sign a contract with the longshorepersons? If yes, then
the longshorepersons union should file a federal labor complaint with
the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) or sue in Federal court. If,
on the other hand, Carnival did not sign a contract with the union,
then the union and the longshorepersons it represents may be SOL.

John


In lieu of all the bull**** political correctness that floats now days, I
saw screw that:

longshoreman,
longshoreman,
longshoreman.....

DITTO


"Chip" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
Please make a note. In the interest of political correctness, it is
longshorepersons, not longshoremen.

Did Carnival sign a contract with the longshorepersons? If yes, then
the longshorepersons union should file a federal labor complaint with
the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) or sue in Federal court. If,
on the other hand, Carnival did not sign a contract with the union,
then the union and the longshorepersons it represents may be SOL.

John


In lieu of all the bull**** political correctness that floats now days, I
saw screw that:

longshoreman,
longshoreman,
longshoreman.....

Just to put newby cruise line passengers at ease a bit, here are the
basics.

Luggage is scanned in the terminal warehouses and than usually moved via
carts on a forklift to the ship.

There ship personnel take control of each piece and take it to the
staterooms, providing the passengers put the right stateroom number on
it in handing it to the longshoremen originally, on arrival. Cruise
lines generally do not permit longshoremen aboard their ships.

The night before the ship arrives at port for the end of the cruise, you
put your luggage in the hall, with a color coded label, and ship's
personnel pick it up, and take it to the gangway door, where the port
longshoremen remove it from the ship.

You are asked to report to a public area of the ship the morning of
debarkation, so housekeeping can get in and clean those staterooms for
the turnaround - the ship will sail between 5:00pm and 7:00pm.

Its public rooms, ballrooms, restaurants are rented while in port for
meetings, weddings, etc, while arriving passengers are waiting for
embarkation.

All arriving ships guests, contractors, and salesmen are screened and
the ship sends its shore side security agency a fax of every person
expected to visit the ship in port the evening before docking.

It also sends a fax of every provisions company, its driver's name, ID,
and license number of the vehicle arriving the evening before, or hands
it to shore side security on arrival.

Debarking passengers leave the ship in deck order usually to match the
color codes of their luggage, so as not to overwhelm the longshoremen or
U.S. Customs & Immigration (which has total control of the ship the
moment it is tied up to a U.S. dock).

The arriving passengers, after dropping off their "checked" luggage with
the longshoremen at a central - well marked location ashore - than go
through security scan at a different place.

Can you get contraband aboard a large cruise ship - yea - probably but
you have to be inventive - and at what cost? Just to prove it can be
done - good way to end up in a Federal jail.

Ship personnel assisting in handling luggage doesn't occur usually, they
can't exit the ship, even to the dock, without Custom's clearance, and
the longshoremen have exclusive rights to handle and move most luggage.

Numerous contraband items are found in passenger luggage, carry on, and
every piece screened in the warehouse area (and cruise ship passengers
bring much more luggage than airline passengers).

Those contraband items located on security scan are set aside, and taken
to the ship where ship's security is told what is inside - they also
scan the items, or open them, and keep contraband knives, lighter guns,
etc.

Rule is no matter what, even if a kids toy, a gun is a gun, a knife is a
knife and a bullet is a bullet. About 3-inches is the limit on a knife,
although dive knives are fairly common and kept by ship security until
needed by the passenger, who checks them out from security. They know
where the knife is. Replica guns are common for ship's entertainers.

Most good security screening companies also keep a log of handchecked
passengers with pacemakers who can't walk through the metal deectors,
and give it to the ships medical office for their information, they like
to know in case of a medical arrest at sea.

Longshoremen lift and place luggage on the warehouse scan machines or
chutes, which are monitored by private security screeners - some
companies are excellent - some leave a lot to be desired.

The U.S. Coast Guard is supposed to monitor security sceening mechanical
techniques - generally, the private screeners catch about as much as the
airport TSA screeners do, sometimes more - they scan more luggage than
the airport does.

If the private security companies at the ports don't follow government
regulations - they get hit with heavy fines by the U.S. Coast Guard
($50,000 is not uncommon if a gun gets aboard a cruise ship and is
discovered).

The USCG can trace back hard copy printed evidence (along with secret
and public CCTV monitoring) of specific pieces of luggage and time frame
it came aboard to individual screeners - and does when necessary.

It is amazing how many knives cruise ship passengers seem to come into
possession of on the short ride from the airports over to ship terminals
on busses, knives that supposedly traveled by air, in their "checked"
luggage.

The longshoremen are not particularly gentle in the manner they handle
your luggage once you are out of sight (and of course have tipped them
for taking control and unpacking it).

It never hurts to be polite with them when turning your luggage over -
hand em a tip and say please be careful with my luggage. Sticks in their
minds immediately - both longshore activity AND security can be done
polietly,

Once they got their tip (and they are salaried employees, no tipping is
usually required of them), it is usually slam-bang with the luggage onto
the screen machines, so pack valuables tight with bath towels - these
guys job is the same as those at the airports - and they do it fast.

Private security still controls cruise ship terminals, gangways, gates,
doors, on-board crew ID checking to depart and return, passenger and
warehouse luggage scan, escorting visitors, and provisions loading
checks.

New machine technology has replaced K-9's checks of provisions, and
there are strict Coast Guard rules for anybody (including the
longshoremen) entering that ship - or anybody exiting that ship to
supervise provisions loading.

The most number of provision trailers allowed on a dock at one time is
three, one unloaded and departing - one opened and in offload process
and one coming onto the dock, with its doors opened.

No vehicle without dock clearance (like line-handler trucks or U.S.
government vehicles), are permitted near cruise ships on the dock.

No containers are allowed to be left on a dock near a cruise ship in
port, even large trash and garbage metal bins which must be moved by
forklit, are moved away from that ship.

Those provisions are checked by individual pallet with quite
sophisticated methods now, although K-9 (expensive) is still used too.

The longshoremen can be a blessing and a pain in the industry. They make
some big dollars, but who in the heck would want to do their job of
heavy lifting and moving?

They, along with all cruise ship employees, are screened in the morning
on arrival - and if they don't leave the terminal areas, are not usually
re-screened (although that would be a good idea - it is a small hole in
the terminal security system).

Obviously screening your cruise line ship hosts moving people in
wheelchairs, greeting, things like that, everytime through, would just
slow down your embark operation, and upset the passengers.

I am always surprised on disembark the number of passengers who fail to
let the longshoremen help them with their luggage and are unwilling to
give up a few dollars tip for this.

If I spend 6-7 days at sea, and have 4-5 pieces of heavy luggage, I am
not going to try to drag it past U.S. Customs, weighted down - pay the
longshoreman to pick it up for you with a cart it is worth it.

As for getting a steak knife on a ship (the silverware is all counted -
and crew signoff usually involves their luggage getting opened when it
is scanned going out (and in), to recover any ship's property, along
with contraband.

The rule is simple. If the ship doesn't care to place somebody at the
exit to scan outbound luggage, their silverware and everything else not
nailed down, disappears.

Leftover and unclaimed luggage by passengers and all crew luggage of the
departing and arriving crew also is scanned. Once off the ship, but
before departing crew gets out the door onto U.S soil - the U.S. Customs
stands right there and does it with the screeners.

Cruise ships are foreign flag vessels tied up to U.S. territory, the
U.S. doesn't have any ships, although the majority of cruise passengers
are Americans.

When you travel today - you don't travel with knives, guns, squirt guns,
bullet belts, machete's, replica guns, etc. - they are not going on the
ship, loaded with perhaps 3,000 people.

That's way more than an airplane, although the threat is different. An
airplane is going to be at risk at 10,000 feet within an hour or so of
scanning her passengers - the ship is in port all day on embark, and
difficult to hijack - even more difficult to sink.

Even wedding dresses, tuxedos, flowers and liquor (Bon Voyage gifts) are
checked. And, although it might take a cruise missle to bring down a
cruise ship - and there are ways to get contrband aboard, doing it
through the longshoremen is not normally a good idea.

They can be a pain, but the overall majority of them make their living
moving provisions and luggage on and off of cruise ships (the easiest
part of their job is the porter duties at disembark - it is worth it to
tip em to move through the Custom's line faster).

They are sreened, their ID's are checked by police and screener
personnel, and undercover law enforcement, along with having U.S.
Customs, and Border Patrol and Immigration armed officers right there,
sometimes on the ship.

If the ship's line messes around with them too much, they can slow down
the whole process - but that is about it - with the U.S. Coast Guard
there - the police presence at the terminals, the screening, the
confiscation of contraband items, the whole thing is a well orchestrated
dance - all done for the protection of the passengers, who are going out
in water as deep as 5,000 feet.

Is it a perfect system - no - but boarding the thing in America, all
security operations are done under U.S. law - there are holes, but the
system usually works quite well.

Is it as safe and secure as it should be, no, there is always a bit of a
tradeoff between normal basic customer service, and security. You are
not boarding a nuclear submarine here.

And are the longshoremen all trustworthy? Probably not, I am sure you
can find holes in any security routine, but those longshoremen have to
clear FBI security checks (as does everybody who works in the port),
every single year to renew their port identifications.

If left at home, or pulled, no ID, no work.

Most have been doing their jobs for 10-20-plus years, and although not
always happy with security routines, they are not generally terrorists -
and I wouldn't want to try to confiscate one of their port ID badges
without a law enforcement officer standing right there beside me.

If they get out of line, the cruise line shore representative, any law
enforcement officer, or the Coast Guard can, and will, pull their port
ID on them quick - and they are out of work.

When that happens, longshoremen attitudes and revenge (or slow downs)
stop pretty quick.

Each agency, doing their specific job, and allowing the other to do
theirs, usually allows for a safe and secure port environment for
cruisers, at least in American ports (where even the ships hull and
bottom are checked by dive teams on arrival and during the time they sit
at the docks.

What the public doesn't see going on, because it is well ocrhestrated,
is the security routines in place for their protectien. Like umpires at
a baseball game, all of that is supposed to be somewhat invisible to the
passengers, who are in vacation mode, but it is mostly done in plain,
public view.

If done well, everyone forgets the slight nuisance required, and there
are plenty of checks and balances in place, including undercover's
aboard ship for narcotics traffacking, fingerprint scanning, State
Department no travel lists, etc.

Additional American security personnel are added many times to ship's
security personnel - at the cruise line's request when necessary.

They travel as uniformed passengers to assist in high travel peaks -
like Easter and spring break when many high school and college kids are
aboard. It is easier for American's to deal with American's than the
foreign ship security personnel when there is an overwhelming number of
teenagers or college kids aboard.

Get a steak knive in a fancy restaurant (or any restaurant) on the ship?
Yep - but the waiter will report how many knives went out and how many
came back into the kitchen, and the table where the steak knife came up
missing from.

They know what they pass out - just like prison guards know how many
utensils go out, and monitor how many come back. With a knife, pretty
easy to track down who might have it in their possession once aboard.

They may take your little Swiss Army pen knife at screen (although that
is usually allowed aboard), but what the heck are you traveling with a
knife for anyways, in these days of strict security screening at
airlines and ship terminals? The passenger's themselves do bear a bit of
responsibility for their own safety.

Overall, the job of protecting cruise passengers, with some noted
exceptions, is handled well.

Behind the scenes, the government, the industry, and law enforcement is
always back-checking, and auditing security routines, and the personnel
who work these ports and keep millions of passengers safe at sea.

The shore side staff's job (longshoremen, law enforcement, security,
cruise line personnel), is to get you aboard and into the hands of the
ship's personnel, safely, with no contraband or weapons. Over the years
- and since September 11th, that job has been done quite well.

The absolute last thing anybody wants in the travel industry is a
breakdown of security. It may be a nuisance, and all the decisions and
regulations might not be understood at the time by the boarding
passengers, but everything is done for the purpose of their safety at
sea.

An entire industry, entire cities dependent on that industry, can be
destroyed if that happens, and everybod'y livelihood eliminated, let
alone the loss of a ship would be devastation. Nobody working in the
industry wants to be a part of the history books of a tragedy....