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#1
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$75M lawsuit filed on behalf of passengers
Here is (probably) the major reason why there are no video cameras and
video recorders overlooking aircraft landings and take-offs at major airports - because those that work and operate the airports are cowards who don't want evidence of negligence and screw-ups caught on tape. This mentality does NOT SERVE the flying public and we should demand that such recording be performed routinely to fully document incidents like this. This is no different than requiring data recorders in the planes themselves, and is certainly far less expensive to install and operate and can supply IMPORTANT information that no-other currently installed technology can. Not even ground radar has sufficient resolution to pinpoint where a plane touches down, or rolls during touch down, or applies brakes, or hits something, etc. --------------------- http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Cana...61953-sun.html $75M lawsuit filed on behalf of passengers TORONTO -- A $75-million class-action lawsuit was filed yesterday accusing Air France, the Greater Toronto Airports Authority and Nav Canada of negligence in the landing accident of an Airbus A340 commercial jet this week. The lawsuit, filed in Ontario Superior Court in Brampton, names Suzanne Deak of Toronto as the lone plaintiff, but the list of claimants is expected to grow. The suit was filed on behalf of all 297 passengers on board the plane that skidded off Pearson airport's runway 24L before bursting into flames on Tuesday. All passengers, as well as the 12 crew members on board, survived the crash; 43 people suffered minor injuries. "We've got a bunch of people who have been hurt in some way and we know the passengers didn't cause the accident," said Paul Miller, the lawyer for the plaintiff. "Someone else is at fault. ... Chances are that all three defendants played a role in this accident." Deak was returning to Toronto from a trip to Hungary when Air France Flight 358 overshot the runway and skidded into Etobicoke Creek, 200 metres west of the landing strip. She escaped the plane with minor back and neck injuries, but her lawyer said she is struggling to cope with other effects of the crash. "She is on medication for some psychological problems and she'll be seeing her chiropractor and her doctor in the next few days because of her back and neck injuries," said Miller. It's too early to tell how many passengers will sign on to the suit, he added, but it likely won't be the only one to come out of the accident. Those named in the suit have yet to respond and the claims have yet to be tested in court. Several Toronto lawyers have been in contact with passengers who plan to take legal action. Lawyer David Diamond has already spoken to at least 10 victims of the crash. He expects to file a class-action suit against the airline and the airports authority in the coming weeks. |
#2
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Fly Guy wrote:
"Someone else is at fault. ... Chances are that all three defendants played a role in this accident." Why? Accidents are always someone's fault. Of course, you could blame it on the One who started the storm |
#3
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mrtravel wrote:
Fly Guy wrote: "Someone else is at fault. ... Chances are that all three defendants played a role in this accident." Why? Accidents are always someone's fault. Of course, you could blame it on the One who started the storm I meant "accidents are NOT always someone's fault" |
#4
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mrtravel wrote:
I meant "accidents are NOT always someone's fault" Here's what happened. The pilots took too long to plant the plane on the runway. Soon after touchdown, they attempted to take off, but only got as far as a brief reving of the engines. Perhaps someone pulled rank in the cockpit and nixed the idea of taking off. Now they were comitted to stopping the plane. Maybe they screwed up and didn't deploy the thrust reversers, or spoilers, maybe they turned off the ABS by mistake. They were doing 150 (kph or mph) when they ran out of runway. We know what happened next. Because there was (apparently) no video recording of the approach and landing, we don't know exactly where the plane touched down, or if an up-draft caused it to touch down too late, or if it was hit by lightning during the approach. |
#5
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Fly Guy wrote:
mrtravel wrote: I meant "accidents are NOT always someone's fault" Here's what happened. The pilots took too long to plant the plane on the runway. Maybe the lightening strike had something to do with it. |
#6
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Fly Guy wrote:
The pilots took too long to plant the plane on the runway. Or the plane was pushed ahead without the pilots having any time to react. It is wrong at this point in time to blame the pilots on "planting" the plane too far. Soon after touchdown, they attempted to take off, but only got as far as a brief reving of the engines. Perhaps someone pulled rank in the cockpit and nixed the idea of taking off Speculation at this point in time. Note that modern airplanes have a "toga" switch which automatically switches the plane from landing to takeoff config, and the recorders would have shown that this switch was activated and then cancelled. The engines revcving up/down could have been an autonomic reaction by the computers to prevent stall. In a strong switch from head to tail wind, airspeed would drop significantly as measured on board. I am surprised that the TSB would have leaked this piece of information that leads to speculation. At the time of Swissair 111, the TSB had been very careful not to leak incomplete information, and in fact, its web site was quickly updated with a special section. The TSB's web site still lacks information about the AF crash. Now they were comitted to stopping the plane. Maybe they screwed up and didn't deploy the thrust reversers, or spoilers, maybe they turned off the ABS by mistake. They were doing 150 (kph or mph) when they ran out of runway. We know what happened next. All media speculation. We know all thrust reversers were deployed. We don't know when, but the TSB does since they now have access to the FDR data and the rapid access recorders from cockpit (which contain more info than FDR). Spoilers and brakes are normally deployed automatically upon the landing gear handling weight from the plane. Because there was (apparently) no video recording of the approach and landing, we don't know exactly where the plane touched down, The invenstigators will know where it touched down, from thread marks on runway as well as from timing of events in the FDR. Consider the following scenario: wind shift causes plane to be brought to middle of runway. Not enough runway left for either TOGA or for proper landing. It takes time to get such a big plane to switch from descending at landing speed to ascending without stalling, and this time is normally taken with wheels on runway while plane re-accelerates, and undoes spoilers, brakes etc etc. At one point in the landing sequence, the plane must touch down before the jet engines generate enough thrust to re-accelerate the plane for a TOGA. The ATC *excerpts* that have been published mention the tower discussing with other flights going around a storm that is approaching the airport. But no mention of ATC talking to the AF flight about the storm that is nearing the runway the plane is aiming for in final approach. Was there truly no mention, or were such conversation omitted from the published excerps ? We don't know. We need to get more hard facts before any judgement can be passed. And there is also the issue of the fire. I suspect the TSB will spend a lot of time on this issue, but we'll have to wait until the final report. |
#7
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On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:01:41 -0400, Fly Guy wrote:
The suit was filed on behalf of all 297 passengers on board the plane that skidded off Pearson airport's runway 24L before bursting into flames on Tuesday. How does someone have the gall to assume they can represent everyone on the plane? Oh yeah a lawyer. |
#8
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Brian wrote:
On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 11:01:41 -0400, Fly Guy wrote: The suit was filed on behalf of all 297 passengers on board the plane that skidded off Pearson airport's runway 24L before bursting into flames on Tuesday. How does someone have the gall to assume they can represent everyone on the plane? Oh yeah a lawyer. According to the article, there is only one plaintiff so far. |
#9
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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:22:00 GMT, mrtravel
wrote: According to the article, there is only one plaintiff so far. According to the article, it was filed as a class action suit. The lawyer will be trolling for more. If it's certified, then everyone will be a member of the class unless hey opt out. |
#10
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"Brian" wrote in message ... On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:22:00 GMT, mrtravel wrote: According to the article, there is only one plaintiff so far. According to the article, it was filed as a class action suit. The lawyer will be trolling for more. If it's certified, then everyone will be a member of the class unless hey opt out. I think that these stupid class actions really are of no benefit to society. I have no problem with them sueing someone who is actually negligent (like possibly the pilot [1]), but simply sueing everbody who might have contributed to the accident in a tiny way by doing nothing more (or less) than everbody else in the same job is unhelpful. It's not even as if anybody died. Boy, am I glad that the attempt to move this practice to Europe was given the response it deserves. tim [1] But of course they don't do this because they can't afford to pay out |
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