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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
Since Didier is always giving interesting reports on public transport in
Paris, I wonder if he can confirm one thing I've been told. I crosspost to mtut, but follow up to rte, since I believe he listens there. The topic is "line maps and diagrams at bus/tram stops", and is instigated by some recent changes in the stops in Milan. Older tram and bus stops in Milan had a pole with a large signpost. This signpost reported a line diagram (a vertical line with the stop names on the side, and also the connecting lines at each stop). The current stop was highlighted. Since there are no line diagrams onboard (I believe because one car can be assigned to different lines), the signposts were handy because they were written large enough that one can read them passing by, and evaluate where one is on the route. The signpost is perpendicular to the direction of travel. Some stops had covered shelters. These usually had a large map of all lines (a real map with streets and street name list, not a diagram). Later they replaced a number of signposts with electronic displays. The displays were also perpendicular to the direction of travel, and were intended to display the time to the next tram or bus (per line). For some reason they never worked reliably (either no information, or a time not corresponding to the real situation). The line diagram was moved to a small (A4 or less) tablet below, together with the timetables. These weren't readable from onboard. Sheltered stops remained the same. Recently there has been a massive replacement of the sheltered stops and installation of new shelters. The shelters should by paid by some sponsor (the advertising company which uses them for commercial ads) and are said to be designed by Lord Norman Foster. Such shelters feature a little seat (which is narrow and convex, and extremely uncomfortable), a panel with the place for a map, and an electronic display. This display is now parallel to the tracks, so one can read it also onboard, and the messages are sort of more reliable. But the main issue is the map and line diagrams. They are presently removing the old maps of the entire city, and replacing them with a few A4-size timetables and a new hybrid map/diagram. This is printed on a long and narrow strip (say 2 or 3 landscape A4 on the side of each other). It gives the route of the line superimposed on a partial map of the streets. But because of the size of the long-and-narrow strips, such map has NOT the customary "north is up" orientation, which I find extremely confusing. (ATM is also rearranging a number of routes in the northern part of Milan, and has published a 40 page PDF brochure, which reports on A4 landscape pages the long-and-narrow schemes of the new lines ... they are so long that have to be split in more than one page, and usually the resolution is such one cannot print the underlying map neatly ... also the different sections on the different pages are not only not north-up, but have a different orientation from page to page, and there is a little thumbnail which shows the reciprocal orientation of the pieces). I personally find this awkward to read, and I do not understand why they've abandoned the custom established since several centuries to have the north up. Their long strips remind me of the Tabula Peutingeriana :-) Now somebody to whom I told the above, observed that he has seen recently some stop shelters in Paris, and they looked to him identical to the "Norman Foster" ones, and they also had long strip map/diagrams, Can Didier or somebody else confirm ? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
#2
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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
Giovanni wrote on Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:27:46 +0100:
The topic is "line maps and diagrams at bus/tram stops", and is instigated by some recent changes in the stops in Milan. A French friend gave my wife a rather pretty head scarf imprinted with a Paris Metro map. It was quite useful even if she was reluctant to use the map when it was raining! -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
#3
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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
On 16 jan, 17:27, Giovanni Drogo wrote:
Since Didier is always giving interesting reports on public transport in Paris, I wonder if he can confirm one thing I've been told. I crosspost to mtut, but follow up to rte, since I believe he listens there. The topic is "line maps and diagrams at bus/tram stops", and is instigated by some recent changes in the stops in Milan. Older tram and bus stops in Milan had a pole with a large signpost. This signpost reported a line diagram (a vertical line with the stop names on the side, and also the connecting lines at each stop). The current stop was highlighted. Since there are no line diagrams onboard (I believe because one car can be assigned to different lines), the signposts were handy because they were written large enough that one can read them passing by, and evaluate where one is on the route. The signpost is perpendicular to the direction of travel. Hi Giovanni, You are lucky that I made an imprecision in my former post and noticed consequently yours, since I don't write a lot anymore on rec.travel.europe. I reply by memory. I will modify later if I make mistakes. So the former isolated milanese signpost looked like those of Roma, if I remember well. They normally have timetables too. The problem with these poles or those of London is that they usually lack a map which is mandatory for tourists to understand the line. In Paris, the isolated poles are smaller but with the timetables they have a diagram of the line printed over a narrow stripe of the real map on a small (A4?) page. The page is not always oriented North. Normally, but it depends how the line diagram fits in the page. Some triangles show the direction of the bus at each stop both sides of the streets and you can guess the direction of the map because of the direction of the bus... Some stops had covered shelters. These usually had a large map of all lines (a real map with streets and street name list, not a diagram). Good. With a map in the shelters you can choose the bus and the connections before getting in the bus. I always do it before. I just check inside the bus the connection or arrival stops. That can be done in Paris bus which have inside above each door a diagram of the line with connection stops, printed over a narrow stripe of the real map. In the metro you've got too a diagram of both the line (above the doors) and network (next to half of the doors). En-route, your position can be checked with the name of the stop indicated on the cornice (parallel to the street) of the shelter, on the right I think (you need to bend a little to see it from the bus when you pass by : better to stand at rear door to read it when the bus stops) or over the isolated signposts (much more difficult to see them en-route nevertheless). According to the inside map, you can check too the name of the streets with the little enamelled blue boards normally put at each street corner. Later they replaced a number of signposts with electronic displays. The displays were also perpendicular to the direction of travel, and were intended to display the time to the next tram or bus (per line). For some reason they never worked reliably (either no information, or a time not corresponding to the real situation). The line diagram was moved to a small (A4 or less) tablet below, together with the timetables. These weren't readable from onboard. Sheltered stops remained the same. Recently there has been a massive replacement of the sheltered stops and installation of new shelters. The shelters should by paid by some sponsor (the advertising company which uses them for commercial ads) and are said to be designed by Lord Norman Foster. Such shelters feature a little seat (which is narrow and convex, and extremely uncomfortable), a panel with the place for a map, and an electronic display. This display is now parallel to the tracks, so one can read it also onboard, and the messages are sort of more reliable. The Paris shelters are as well designed by Norman Foster after a competition which took place several years ago. They were changed about 10 years ago. I'll try to find the date. They've got a flat seat, approximatively 1.5 m-2 m long and about 30 cm large. There's a map of the area with each nearby bus stop and their lines numbers, a diagram of each bus line passing at the bus stop printed over a narrow stripe of the real map and since few years an electronic display showing the passing hour of the next 2 buses (like in the metro) parallel to the street. Behing the shelter there's a map of the bus network (+ smaller ones for evenings and week-ends). On the cornice you've got the name of the bus stop and the numbers of the lines, including nightbuses with a special logo. But the main issue is the map and line diagrams. They are presently removing the old maps of the entire city, and replacing them with a few A4-size timetables and a new hybrid map/diagram. This is printed on a long and narrow strip (say 2 or 3 landscape A4 on the side of each other). It gives the route of the line superimposed on a partial map of the streets. In Paris shelters you've got the stripe line diagram inside but always too the network map of all Paris behind. This is of course necessary to choose the connections before getting in the bus. But because of the size of the long-and-narrow strips, such map has NOT the customary "north is up" orientation, which I find extremely confusing. (ATM is also rearranging a number of routes in the northern part of Milan, and has published a 40 page PDF brochure, which reports on A4 landscape pages the long-and-narrow schemes of the new lines ... they are so long that have to be split in more than one page, and usually the resolution is such one cannot print the underlying map neatly ... also the different sections on the different pages are not only not north-up, but have a different orientation from page to page, and there is a little thumbnail which shows the reciprocal orientation of the pieces). I personally find this awkward to read, and I do not understand why they've abandoned the custom established since several centuries to have the north up. Their long strips remind me of the Tabula Peutingeriana :-) Yes, but it was the same for the vertical diagram on the isolated signposts, isn't it ? They should add a real map of the network too in the shelters. Both maps have their advantages. Now somebody to whom I told the above, *observed that he has seen recently some stop shelters in Paris, and they looked to him identical to the "Norman Foster" ones, and they also had long strip map/diagrams, Can Didier or somebody else confirm ? Yes the systems and furnitures seem now very similar. See comparaisons above. In Paris, you can find a map within few hundred meters in the street and the street names are indicated at their corners. IMO the easiest to find are the bus stop or shelter maps (Paris and/or area). But also inside the entrance of each metro stations (area and Paris) and above it as well in the street (Paris) usefull after metro closing, behind some advertising boards (area : with monuments or with hotels). In fact I don't know another city with so much maps by km2. Only blinds can get lost :+). didier Meurgues ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
In article ,
"James Silverton" wrote: Giovanni wrote on Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:27:46 +0100: The topic is "line maps and diagrams at bus/tram stops", and is instigated by some recent changes in the stops in Milan. A French friend gave my wife a rather pretty head scarf imprinted with a Paris Metro map. It was quite useful even if she was reluctant to use the map when it was raining! I downloaded a free app. for the iPhone 3G called iMetro. Has scans of several metro systems all over the world. There are pay applications which will actually let you do route planning, entering in starting and ending points and they supposedly plot your itinerary for you. I'm not sure if they need a data connection to get schedules in real time. |
#5
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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
"poldy" kirjoitti viestissä I'm not sure if they need a data connection to get schedules in real time. Eh? |
#6
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transport maps in Paris (and Milan) [for didier Meurgues]
On 17 jan, 15:44, didier Meurgues wrote:
Hi Giovanni, I reply by memory. I will modify later if I make mistakes. My visual memory was roughly correct. The bus lines numbers or on the edge of the bus signposts and shelters cornice. The Paris shelters are as well designed by Norman Foster after a competition which took place several years ago. They were changed about 10 years ago. I'll try to find the date. In 1994 apparently : http://www.vitruvio.ch/arc/furniture/abribus.php According to the Newspapers L’express and Liberation (today issues) DECAUX Cie asked furnitures to several designers since the late 80ies. « Decaux (…) a ainsi fait appel à des designers aussi renommés que Jean-Michel Wilmotte pour ses colonnes Morris, Norman Foster pour ses Abribus, Patrick Jouin pour ses panneaux d'affichage, ou encore Philippe Starck pour ses réverbères. » « Aussi, à la fin des années 80, suivant l'exemple de certains maires avides de créations nouvelles, Decaux fait travailler Philippe Starck, Foster, Wilmotte, Oscar Tusquets. En 1992, il s'adresse à de plus jeunes designers : Sylvain Dubuisson, Martin Szekely. » In Paris, you can find a map within few hundred meters in the street and the street names are indicated at their corners. IMO the easiest to find are the bus stop or shelter maps (Paris and/or area). But also inside the entrance of each metro stations (area and Paris) and above it as well in the street (Paris) usefull after metro closing, as well behind some advertising boards (area : with monuments or with hotels). In fact I don't know another city with so much maps by km2. Only blinds can get lost :+). I forgot the very usefull maps (area) of the velib’ stations, every about 300 m, and as visible as bus shelters in the streets. The area is larger and better readable than on the more numerous bus stops maps ; smaller than on the less numerous and less visible advertising panels/boards. Velib stations map : http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/...PM2/V-lib..pdf (open after 10 seconds). Ciao Giovanni didier Meurgues |
#7
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transport maps
Hi, In Paris I generally take the metro... I find it simpler to navigate... but for some trips I'll take the bus... at least that way you see Paris. Amsterdam has the trams and bikes... and they beat the buses and the subway hands down. London has the tube... and it's handy... the buses aren't to hard... but I inevitably get on going the wrong way!... I look at the map and THINKING in LHD mode (oddly I drive a RHD car in the States) get on the bus on the wrong side of the street... but like in Paris I get to see more of the city... and I figure out I'm going the wrong way after a bit and get off/switch sides and head on to my destinations. but these off route trips can be fun... you find things you wouldn't find otherwise... get of the tourist track a bit. -- Hackamore http://www.hackamore.com http://hackamoretravel.blogspot.com |
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