Why do Americans not travel more internationally ?

Bryan wrote:

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
...


SMS wrote:


wrote:


The per capita percentage of Americans that travel internationally for
pleasure is low compared to other western nations.

This seems strange, given the relatively high standard of living and
disposable income of Americans.

Although there has been a recent spike of US citizens obtaining
passports, thi sis mainly due to recent legislation and it is doubtful
the passports will increase the amount of travel outside North
America.

Why is the international travel so low ?


Because major employees give so little vacation, and because every time
you change jobs, you start over from 2 weeks or so.


That has an influence but I manage an international trip for 2/3 or so of
the spring breaks of about 9 days. My last three springs have been
Iberia, Paris, & Italy. Next year though it will be the Carolinas.




You have a drive to see/experience other countries/cultures and are willing
to spend your vacation time doing just that. Many US citizens are using
their time to visit family somewhere in the states, or to find a warm beach
to relax on. The middle class I grew up with didn't have disposable income;
it went toward college educations, etc. The poor don't stand a financial
chance of travel and the folks that can afford to take a family to europe
are the minority. I think there are all kinds of reasons more of us don't
tracel to europe.




My comment was a response to the specific claim that it was a lack of
vacation time that cut international travel. A lack of money dedicated
to travel does hurt.

lid wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 20:47:17 GMT, "PTravel"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 08:25:00 GMT, "PTravel"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

Hunh? What legislation encourages Americans to obtain passports?

The legislation doesn't " encourage" it demands!

Although there are also other sweeping changes to the type of
passports one must now have to enter the US ( digital ) The
Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 now requires
all people in The Caribbean, Bermuda, Panama, Mexico and Canada to
have a valid passport to enter or re enter the US.

There is no legislation that requires Americans to have passports within
their own country. Please read the thread and stay on topic.

Thanks.
And what topic are you on? Where in this thread did anyone ever
mention that Americans needed passports to travel in their own country]

The one in which I replied to this:

Although there has been a recent spike of US citizens obtaining
passports, thi sis mainly due to recent legislation





The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative will require require all US
citizens to have a passport to re enter the US


To re-enter, yes. No legislation requires Americans to have passports,
however.
OK, then can we assume you want to permanently stay in The Caribbean,
Bermuda, Panama, Mexico or Canada if you were to travel there?
They might not want / accept you.
Now what do you do?


What in the world are you talking about? Have you read the thread, or
are you just blindly pouncing on posts for the sake of being
contraditory?

Lets say, if it was applicable, your company wanted you to attend a
conference in Montreal -- Nope, sorry, can't do that because you will
not be able to get back into the country.


At present the phase in period is

By December 31, 2006 --- Requirement applied to all air and sea
travel to or from Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the
Caribbean, and Bermuda.

By December 31, 2007 Requirement extended to all land border
crossings as well as air and sea travel

Alan S wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 20:16:49 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


Big country. Lots to do and see here. Europe is actually a lot of small
countries. So a 2 hour drive gets you international travel, while a 2 hour
drive in California, does not get you out of the state. Statistics are
marvelous aren't they?


Have you driven two hours south of San Diego? Or two hours
north of Buffalo?


Well, yes .... but most of the USA is nowhere near an international
border. Only three countries actually border on the USA. One
does not count because it is very expensive to get there directly
(Russia). One other only touches the USA at two or three highly
populated spots (Mexico: San Diego, Phoenix/Tucson, and arguably
south Texas.) Only Canada has a long border and it is populated
only at the extreme ends. Most of the USA, such as where I live, is
well out of a one day reasonable drive to another country. The closest
drive for me is to cross over at Detroit: and that's an 8 hour drive.

In fact, I am 60 years old and had never been to Mexico until I
was 57, whereas I had been to England, Italy, Greece, Iceland, Kenya,
Tanzania, Israel, India, Nepal, Peru, Ecuador, Australia, and Papua New
Guinea, (as well as Canada) already. It was as easy to get to most of
those places as to Mexico, if somewhat more tiring.

Doug McDonald

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
lid wrote:
The per capita percentage of Americans that travel internationally
for pleasure is low compared to other western nations.

This seems strange, given the relatively high standard of living and
disposable income of Americans.

Although there has been a recent spike of US citizens obtaining
passports, thi sis mainly due to recent legislation and it is
doubtful the passports will increase the amount of travel outside
North America.

Why is the international travel so low ?

Partially because you have to go farther than 100 km to cross a border
for most folks in the US.

The passport spike is because it will be needed for travel in North
America soon.

What a joke that is... We (GF and I) have gone through a background check
(FBI/RCMP), finger printed and interviewed by the opposite customs agencies
(GF is American, while I am Canadian) yet the NEXUS cards will not trump the
need of a passport in 2007 - even though a passport is easier to get and
less secure. So is it being required as a cash grab or more window dressing
to appease a overly cautious nation? I say that after a one month "test" of
the Minutemen along the US/CAN border seems to have netted zero observations
of illegals penetrating the "porous boarder".

lid wrote:

I originally asked a simple and serious question about the reason why
Americans do not travel internationally as much as people in other
parts of the world seem to do and the discussion immediately evolved
to how big the USA is and how Americans can drive the same distance as
those in Europe and still be in their own country. Sure you can but
crossing a border into New Mexico from Texas is hardly the same as
crossing a border from Slovenia to Italy or anywhere in the US into
Europe.

Let's try the original question again and rephrase
Why do so few Americans travel "abroad" ( overseas ) for pleasure
compared to those in other nations?


That is an ENTIRELY different question. You asked about
"international" travel, and that means, for example,
somebody driving from Brussels to Paris.

But the answer is the SAME:

Because America is a BIG and diverse country. And different:
because we can also easily visit a VERY different country,
Mexico, easily (and get warm at the same time) or visit
another huge country, Canada, equally easily.


Is the reason fear? Is it lack of interest in other cultures? Is it
lack of time? What????

It's convenience. It's also because America is a big and diverse
country with a VERY lot to see. Why not see America first, its
so easy? There is a very large sort of travel that you simply
can't do in the heart of Europe, but can in America. When one
goes travelling in the American West, one sees large numbers
of Europeans ... because what's there is simply unavailable
in Europe, and we are convenient to get to. Europe does not have
a Grand Canyon, or a Yosemite, or a Sierra Nevada, or a Bryce Canyon,
for example.

As far as I am concerned, for example, most of Europe is
totally uninteresting ... the only part I would be interesting
in seeing for an extended time is the inside of museums, which
admittedly is something I will eventually go over and do.


Doug McDonald

Larry,

Let's take a commercial break to have a serious moment. I recently
completed a 2 year assigned at the US Embassy in Armenia and in my
travels within Armenia and other Former Soviet Union States, I met
exactly one Australian outside of Russia. Meanwhile, there are
hundreds or thousands of Americans in each of the countries; volunteers
with the Peace Corps, workers from multiple government alphabet soups
(USAID, USDA, DoD, DOS, etc.), many more Americans working for NGOs,
diasporans, business people, teachers, and religious missionaries. So
while Americans are living and working in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia,
Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia,
Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova, how many Australians
are in each of these countries? A handful and the Australian's
government's interest is minimal; one Embassy in Russia. Talk about
lack of information to make foreign policy decisions.

So even if we accept the premise that Americans are less likely to
travel overseas as tourists than country X (haven't seen the hard
evidence so far), your sweeping generalization about insularity and not
knowing anything about other countries is absurd. Do you think typical
the backpacking, camera toting tourist is suddenly enlightened &
worldly smart by cursory visits to foreign countries? It might make
them smug & urbane with a tendency to make ignorant sweeping
generalizations on the Internet, but they're still essentially
clueless, especially compared to those who have spent years studying,
living, and/or working in a foreign country.

Now let's get back to humorous ribs. Did you not tell us before that
you a director of the one of the largest travel agencies in Australia?
How did you find the time to do that plus be a mercenary in Vietnam,
Angola, and Iraq?

Mark

Jeff,

Better yet, let's move this entire thread to the wrestling newsgroups -
we might some get some rational discourse. Alternatively, we could
move the thread to the alt.bash-america newsgroup, and those who have
the need to build their self-esteem by ragging on the US, can post
loaded questions & make sweeping generalizations.

Mark

On 7 Nov 2005 11:39:34 -0800, "markbyrn" wrote:

Jeff,

Better yet, let's move this entire thread to the wrestling newsgroups -
we might some get some rational discourse. Alternatively, we could
move the thread to the alt.bash-america newsgroup, and those who have
the need to build their self-esteem by ragging on the US, can post
loaded questions & make sweeping generalizations.

Mark

Do you really think there has been a lot of American bashing ( ragging
) ? Actually I think, for a newsgroup, the thread has been quite civil
and at times a little humerous. Like most threads, a little short on
factual info but perceptions are still valid and interesting.

Why is it that when people outside of the US have a criticism of the
US it is called "bashing" ? When an American criticizes the US, is
that "bashing" or are they just written off as "lefties" or
"liberals"?

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:45:12 -0500, Dave Smith
wrote:

FWIW, my wife was navigating on a trip a few years ago and was totally messed up
in Holland. We had a map the same size as our provincial road map. One one
occasion we were headed for a small town north east of Arnhem. She told me the
exit was a few miles after we crossed a river, but the exit was about 200 yards
past the river. Not a problem, there is a place ti turn around about 10 miles
down the road. It turned out to be less than a mile. She was having a really bad
time adjusting to the difference in scale of the map. It took us less than 4
hours of easy driving from the very north of Holland to Belgium. It takes me
longer than that to get to an annual vacation site, and it is not even half way
up on the map of the southern half of our province.

My (Italian) husband has a similar problem when driving in the US. He
thinks we can stop for lunch in a town that we won't reach until the
next day.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

lid wrote:

Why is it that when people outside of the US have a criticism of the
US it is called "bashing" ? When an American criticizes the US, is
that "bashing" or are they just written off as "lefties" or
"liberals"?

Same answer to both questions: don't I wish I knew!

Mostly the far right-wing approach, irrespective of phraseology, is
"love it or leave it". I wonder if they have the same attitude about
their jobs!