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#21
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
"Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... Well, it's the long version or the short version! We'll keep to the latter pro tem. Our normal travelling is usually very much DIY. So, based in the east in Taormina, we had sketched out two weeks in May of moving around most sights in the island. However - thank you travel industry - we were advised with far too little notice that G7, of which we'd never heard, was causing a lockdown and cancellation of all hotel reservations in Taormina for the duration. We wanted to stay with the hotel carefully chosen (within all this was a family celebration) so we ended up in Taormina a month late, and in uncustomary heat and humidity (even for Sicily!) that foreshortened too much activity. So we stayed centred in the east, cut our various overnighting stays planned in the west and, in the reduced 'charging around' time relied on conducted tours more than we usually would. Here's a precis of some notes I sent to a friend who's also shortly visiting for the first time. Aeolian islands: Beautiful. Get cruises for the day from the port near Messina. Do include the version that stands off at sea in the dark of the evening so that you can watch Stromboli erupting - we saw 4 good bangs/flames within 45 minutes. Great stuff! Etna: Can't be missed - we were very lucky and apart from heat haze had exceptional views. Depending on your preference you can stop at the end of the road access (with views up towards the main craters, plus small old craters nearby to look at), or go on the cable car rather higher, and then take 'jeep coaches' higher still, and then move as high as the guides will let you trek depending on volcanic action. Your choice! We saw copious smoke action from two top craters plus some black ash eruption. Marvellous day! Syracuse: Its history is rather more interesting than what is left (!) but nevertheless well worth walking around if you have spare time. Good stuff from ancient Greek to Roman/Byzantine/Norman and later, but relatively sparse. A half-day conducted walk would ensure you saw the highlights. Taormina: Our base, which proved exceptionally good for that, and very attractively sited below Etna. It appears on numerous excursions from other parts of Sicily, but I wouldn't have thought it was worth any significant diversion by travellers unless close anyway, but it's certainly very pleasant, with several good mediaeval piazzas. All the above using locally arranged day trips? Aeolians, Syracuse & Etna, yep. okey dokey |
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Sicily A report from Andalucia, July 2017
In message engr.vans.vg, Giovanni Drogo writes On Wed, 12 Jul 2017, tim... wrote: a van). The islands (Vulcano, Lipari, Panarea and Stromboli are the ones I visited, the others are farther) are definitely worth visiting. I hadn't really considered visiting the Islands The ferries don't seem to be overly helpful when visiting for a day trip, but accommodation on the islands is so limited that you really have plan ahead to get it right spending 3 or 4 days on these islands definitely works against touring by car You won't need a car except perhaps on Lipari which is a bit large to be walkable (some 6 km across and hilly), if you want to collect pumice and obsidian. Actually there are no cars at all at Panarea (we walked from the harbour to the archeological site), and I'm not sure about Stromboli (the two inhabited points should not be connected by road). Even Vulcano should be walkable. As far as I know the boat and hydrofoil service should be acceptable. Problem can be rough weather. We were in an organized tour with a small group. We went by van from Catania airport to Milazzo (getting an impressive thunderstorm on the motorway just as we left the shade of Etna), and found all boats were cancelled. Our guide found an hotel at Capo d'Orlando, and found that the morning after there was a boat from there to Vulcano and Lipari (Italian Touring Club guides usually have a budget to cater for situations like these). We did a day trip to Vulcano by regular service boat (it's just across the strait), and another to Panarea, and Stromboli coming back in the evening, but I guess this was a chartered boat (not just for our small group, we weren't alone). It stopped off Panarea to let people have a swim, and after dinner toured a bit around Stromboli to see Strombolicchio and the Sciara (the incline where lava gets down into the sea). We had a van to go round Lipari (not the one we left on the mainland), and came back by hydrofoil. And don't get me started on maps that are orientated the wrong way round Don't tell me. I cannot stand the hybrid stuff ATM (the Milan transport agency) has placed at tram stops. They are not linear line DIAGRAMS, and they aren't regular maps, north up, but sort of Peutingerian maps, long and thin, made cutting pieces of regular maps and joining them "rectified" along the tram route. I've never visited Marsala, the saline (salt flats) and the western coast. didn't know of the salt flats Uh, actually I had to look up the word, so I may have got the wrong one. We call them "saline" (plural, sing. "salina"). They are flat areas where they let sea water in to evaporate, and then collect the salt. The main ones still in use for commercial purpose should be in Puglia. I guess the ones near Trapani are also still active, but part of them is a museum/park. So for the smaller ones near Cervia (northern Adriatic), which produce a particularly sweet salt (I am not sure if depends on the concentration of which oligo-element). Some amateurs supporting the salt museum in Cervia run "manually" a salina in the old way, and this salt is for sale at the museum. I heard there are also salt mines in some place in the interior of Sicily (should date back to the "Messinian salinity crisis" when Gibraltar strait closed and the Mediterranean evaporated) The railway line to Castelvetrano (on the southern coast) should have a stop near the Segesta temple (but I guess a fair walk). would that be the stop called Segesta tempio? the name makes sense, I cannot locate it on google maps. I'll try openstreetmap (rather good at computing walking paths though underestimates walking time) or openrailwaymap hmm, according to openrailwaymap that's tagged "abandoned track", but Calatafimi looks near, wikipedia lists Segesta Tempio as in use, but https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Palermo-Trapani says "service interrupted" Hmm ... actually zooming in on openrailwampa one sees that the "abandoned track" goes south through "Calatafimi-Segesta", but Calatafimi station is on the east and Segesta Tempio to the north of the archeological area ... but on the suspended service line ! :-( Some other site quotes a "Tarantola Bus" company. Oh, looking on DB I see that all the Trapani services are via Castelvetrano, so the direct line's not still open I tend also to use a DB site to get railway timetables across all Europe, though one has to use the Trenitalia site to get tickets (but that mainly for Le Frecce, "the arrows" i.e. the high speed trains, which haven't got south of Naples), but I found instead useful this site http://www.rfi.it/rfi.html (RFI is the owner of the infrastructure, rails and station). If you click on "Quadri orario online" you can get a pdf of the arrival and departure timetables of each individual stations, exactly the ones present in the station. http://www.viaggiatreno.it is instead the utility to get real time situation of trains (both long distance, and by region). For Lombardy, where Trenord runs regional train, the qeuivalent service is http://www.my-link.it/mylink/ Just a thank you to you and others in this thread for all the information. -- --- Sheila Page |
#23
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:54:45 +0200, Simon Laub wrote:
Have just returned from a trip to Andalucia. Lots of impressions to pass on, but, sadly, not much activity in rec.travel.european these days? I.e. not that many to pass the story on to? Nevertheless, I'll give it a go: Shortly: Andalucia has certainly been influenced by a lot of people over the centuries. From roman emperors, onwards to muslim caliphates, followed by Viking raids (Vikings who later settle in the area, selling cheese) and forward to Spanish kings, who started expeditions to the rest of the world from the Andalician heartland. Between all the wars you certainly don't get the impression that the past was such a glorious time of stability that you sometimes see it portrayed as in the media ... But, well, the land is still there. And well worth a visit. You can see some pictures from my trip he http://www.simonlaub.net/Fortunecity...017/index.html best wishes -Simon Andaluces de Jaen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unVF1tAALUk Miguel Hernandez 1937 Paco Ibanez. Another version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNpXVzCwvjs Andaluces de Jaén, aceituneros altivos, decidme en el alma: ¿quién, quién levantó los olivos? No los levantó la nada, ni el dinero, ni el señor, sino la tierra callada, el trabajo y el sudor. Unidos al agua pura y a los planetas unidos, los tres dieron la hermosura de los troncos retorcidos. Levántate, olivo cano, dijeron al pie del viento. Y el olivo alzó una mano poderosa de cimiento. Andaluces de Jaén, aceituneros altivos, decidme en el alma: ¿quién amamantó los olivos? Vuestra sangre, vuestra vida, no la del explotador que se enriqueció en la herida generosa del sudor. No la del terrateniente que os sepultó en la pobreza, que os pisoteó la frente, que os redujo la cabeza. Árboles que vuestro afán consagró al centro del d*a eran principio de un pan que sólo el otro com*a. ¡Cuántos siglos de aceituna, los pies y las manos presos, sol a sol y luna a luna, pesan sobre vuestros huesos! Andaluces de Jaén, aceituneros altivos, pregunta mi alma: ¿de quién, de quién son estos olivos? Jaén, levántate brava sobre tus piedras lunares, no vayas a ser esclava con todos tus olivares. Dentro de la claridad del aceite y sus aromas, indican tu libertad la libertad de tus lomas. |
#24
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
Am Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 21:36:20 UTC+2 schrieb tim...:
I first (and only) visited Sicily in 82 when I was working a year in Italy This was pre internet, without a guide book, flying by the seat of my pants stuff I knew a few places that I had to go to: Mt Etna, Agrigento, Palermo etc I scheduled a two week holiday which I spent in the very south of Italy and on the Island - travelling by train. It was November BTW, glorious weather all week, though it did **** down the previous week when I had been in Naples :-( I'm sure that I missed some places. I remember that I got the train to Enna, fully expecting that if the station wasn't in the town centre (it isn't by about 5 km) there would be as bus as the had been at *every* other random Italian town that I had visited. But there wasn't and still isn't (actually I found a web site that says that there us, but there are no bus stops on street view!) - and there isn't even a sign of a taxi rank, though no doubt there's now a phone number on the wall that you can ring with your mobile - something that I, of course, didn't have in 82. Now, with 35 years of traveling experience behind me, I think I should go back and fill in the gaps. I'm minded to hire a car, but I am concerned by the overly cheap prices that are charged and whether it is possible to avoid all the scams that you read of to bump up the costs when you get there. Or I can again go by train (and bus) though this time using the internet to plan properly. Although the Train Station has not been included to the local bus network http://wwwnew.saisautolinee.it/publi...Mappa-S.U..pdf http://wwwnew.saisautolinee.it/?cmd=orari Shows Solutions for weekdays if entering/choosing Enna F.S. as the first and Enna as second point. Regards, ULF |
#25
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
wrote in message ... Am Dienstag, 11. Juli 2017 21:36:20 UTC+2 schrieb tim...: I first (and only) visited Sicily in 82 when I was working a year in Italy This was pre internet, without a guide book, flying by the seat of my pants stuff I knew a few places that I had to go to: Mt Etna, Agrigento, Palermo etc I scheduled a two week holiday which I spent in the very south of Italy and on the Island - travelling by train. It was November BTW, glorious weather all week, though it did **** down the previous week when I had been in Naples :-( I'm sure that I missed some places. I remember that I got the train to Enna, fully expecting that if the station wasn't in the town centre (it isn't by about 5 km) there would be as bus as the had been at *every* other random Italian town that I had visited. But there wasn't and still isn't (actually I found a web site that says that there us, but there are no bus stops on street view!) - and there isn't even a sign of a taxi rank, though no doubt there's now a phone number on the wall that you can ring with your mobile - something that I, of course, didn't have in 82. Now, with 35 years of traveling experience behind me, I think I should go back and fill in the gaps. I'm minded to hire a car, but I am concerned by the overly cheap prices that are charged and whether it is possible to avoid all the scams that you read of to bump up the costs when you get there. Or I can again go by train (and bus) though this time using the internet to plan properly. Although the Train Station has not been included to the local bus network http://wwwnew.saisautolinee.it/publi...Mappa-S.U..pdf well no it wouldn't because it is miles from the town with no built up area in between (but i didn't know that at the time) so unlikely to be a frequent city bus. As someone else said, it's not an immediately obvious tourist destination so no hoards of tourists arriving at the station wanting to get to the remote city (as there are at Assisi, say) http://wwwnew.saisautolinee.it/?cmd=orari Shows Solutions for weekdays if entering/choosing Enna F.S. as the first and Enna as second point. OK thanks not that the resulting 2 buses a day (3 on schooldays) is useful :-) I did actually find information on long distance busses and saw that there are a few a day from the larger towns on the island. So if I decide to include it in my destination list, that is the way to go tim |
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 7:50:56 PM UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... Well, it's the long version or the short version! We'll keep to the latter pro tem. Our normal travelling is usually very much DIY. So, based in the east in Taormina, we had sketched out two weeks in May of moving around most sights in the island. However - thank you travel industry - we were advised with far too little notice that G7, of which we'd never heard, was causing a lockdown and cancellation of all hotel reservations in Taormina for the duration. We wanted to stay with the hotel carefully chosen (within all this was a family celebration) so we ended up in Taormina a month late, and in uncustomary heat and humidity (even for Sicily!) that foreshortened too much activity. So we stayed centred in the east, cut our various overnighting stays planned in the west and, in the reduced 'charging around' time relied on conducted tours more than we usually would. Here's a precis of some notes I sent to a friend who's also shortly visiting for the first time. Aeolian islands: Beautiful. Get cruises for the day from the port near Messina. Do include the version that stands off at sea in the dark of the evening so that you can watch Stromboli erupting - we saw 4 good bangs/flames within 45 minutes. Great stuff! Etna: Can't be missed - we were very lucky and apart from heat haze had exceptional views. Depending on your preference you can stop at the end of the road access (with views up towards the main craters, plus small old craters nearby to look at), or go on the cable car rather higher, and then take 'jeep coaches' higher still, and then move as high as the guides will let you trek depending on volcanic action. Your choice! We saw copious smoke action from two top craters plus some black ash eruption. Marvellous day! Syracuse: Its history is rather more interesting than what is left (!) but nevertheless well worth walking around if you have spare time. Good stuff from ancient Greek to Roman/Byzantine/Norman and later, but relatively sparse. A half-day conducted walk would ensure you saw the highlights. Taormina: Our base, which proved exceptionally good for that, and very attractively sited below Etna. It appears on numerous excursions from other parts of Sicily, but I wouldn't have thought it was worth any significant diversion by travellers unless close anyway, but it's certainly very pleasant, with several good mediaeval piazzas. All the above using locally arranged day trips? Aeolians, Syracuse & Etna, yep. okey dokey Not as 'touristy' as it might sound. Bearing in mind that we rarely hire cars ... Aeolians visits are largely by the same ferries anyway. Etna, to see various other aspects en route, would be difficult via public transport. Syracuse area sites are spread out and favour personal transport of whatever type. Using public transport for all these visits might have saved some cash (not our primary concern) but otherwise would have added little. We're all for 'local flavour' (using dolmeshes in Turkey etc.), but not if it unnecessarily complicates just getting from A to B. |
#27
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
"Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 7:50:56 PM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... Well, it's the long version or the short version! We'll keep to the latter pro tem. Our normal travelling is usually very much DIY. So, based in the east in Taormina, we had sketched out two weeks in May of moving around most sights in the island. However - thank you travel industry - we were advised with far too little notice that G7, of which we'd never heard, was causing a lockdown and cancellation of all hotel reservations in Taormina for the duration. We wanted to stay with the hotel carefully chosen (within all this was a family celebration) so we ended up in Taormina a month late, and in uncustomary heat and humidity (even for Sicily!) that foreshortened too much activity. So we stayed centred in the east, cut our various overnighting stays planned in the west and, in the reduced 'charging around' time relied on conducted tours more than we usually would. Here's a precis of some notes I sent to a friend who's also shortly visiting for the first time. Aeolian islands: Beautiful. Get cruises for the day from the port near Messina. Do include the version that stands off at sea in the dark of the evening so that you can watch Stromboli erupting - we saw 4 good bangs/flames within 45 minutes. Great stuff! Etna: Can't be missed - we were very lucky and apart from heat haze had exceptional views. Depending on your preference you can stop at the end of the road access (with views up towards the main craters, plus small old craters nearby to look at), or go on the cable car rather higher, and then take 'jeep coaches' higher still, and then move as high as the guides will let you trek depending on volcanic action. Your choice! We saw copious smoke action from two top craters plus some black ash eruption. Marvellous day! Syracuse: Its history is rather more interesting than what is left (!) but nevertheless well worth walking around if you have spare time. Good stuff from ancient Greek to Roman/Byzantine/Norman and later, but relatively sparse. A half-day conducted walk would ensure you saw the highlights. Taormina: Our base, which proved exceptionally good for that, and very attractively sited below Etna. It appears on numerous excursions from other parts of Sicily, but I wouldn't have thought it was worth any significant diversion by travellers unless close anyway, but it's certainly very pleasant, with several good mediaeval piazzas. All the above using locally arranged day trips? Aeolians, Syracuse & Etna, yep. okey dokey Not as 'touristy' as it might sound. Bearing in mind that we rarely hire cars ... It's just that I am wary of hiring a car in these places where the headline price has been dumned down by online booking sites It's just not credible that 8 pounds per day is a viable price, even off season when the company has spare cars because they are stocked up for peak demand. And I've been stuffed before by a dishonest hire company (with an international brand name) tim |
#28
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A report from Andalucia, July 2017
On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 12:25:49 PM UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 7:50:56 PM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, tim... wrote: "Surreyman" wrote in message ... Well, it's the long version or the short version! We'll keep to the latter pro tem. Our normal travelling is usually very much DIY. So, based in the east in Taormina, we had sketched out two weeks in May of moving around most sights in the island. However - thank you travel industry - we were advised with far too little notice that G7, of which we'd never heard, was causing a lockdown and cancellation of all hotel reservations in Taormina for the duration. We wanted to stay with the hotel carefully chosen (within all this was a family celebration) so we ended up in Taormina a month late, and in uncustomary heat and humidity (even for Sicily!) that foreshortened too much activity. So we stayed centred in the east, cut our various overnighting stays planned in the west and, in the reduced 'charging around' time relied on conducted tours more than we usually would. Here's a precis of some notes I sent to a friend who's also shortly visiting for the first time. Aeolian islands: Beautiful. Get cruises for the day from the port near Messina. Do include the version that stands off at sea in the dark of the evening so that you can watch Stromboli erupting - we saw 4 good bangs/flames within 45 minutes. Great stuff! Etna: Can't be missed - we were very lucky and apart from heat haze had exceptional views. Depending on your preference you can stop at the end of the road access (with views up towards the main craters, plus small old craters nearby to look at), or go on the cable car rather higher, and then take 'jeep coaches' higher still, and then move as high as the guides will let you trek depending on volcanic action. Your choice! We saw copious smoke action from two top craters plus some black ash eruption. Marvellous day! Syracuse: Its history is rather more interesting than what is left (!) but nevertheless well worth walking around if you have spare time. Good stuff from ancient Greek to Roman/Byzantine/Norman and later, but relatively sparse. A half-day conducted walk would ensure you saw the highlights. Taormina: Our base, which proved exceptionally good for that, and very attractively sited below Etna. It appears on numerous excursions from other parts of Sicily, but I wouldn't have thought it was worth any significant diversion by travellers unless close anyway, but it's certainly very pleasant, with several good mediaeval piazzas. All the above using locally arranged day trips? Aeolians, Syracuse & Etna, yep. okey dokey Not as 'touristy' as it might sound. Bearing in mind that we rarely hire cars ... It's just that I am wary of hiring a car in these places where the headline price has been dumned down by online booking sites It's just not credible that 8 pounds per day is a viable price, even off season when the company has spare cars because they are stocked up for peak demand. And I've been stuffed before by a dishonest hire company (with an international brand name) tim As I said, we rarely hire cars. The alternative we used in Sicily, especially when aiming for out of the way hilltop villages etc., was taxis. Very good day rate is negotiable - after half an hour or so and a couple of drinks! - and includes what often becomes a very useful guide. |
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