Encounters with the TSA

In message , AJC
writes
Why is it a sin to mix inbound and outbound pax?

Basic security precaution. (Also helps prevent various smuggling
escapades).

Some of the most pleasant airports in the world, Changi, Schiphol,
Kastrup mix them. It gives a more open, relaxed feel to an airport.

I'm sure this is the case, but security is more important these days.
Also note that Schipol (for example) has security checks at the edges of
the larger semi-public concourses, before you get to the International
gates. At most airports there's just one check between the really public
area and the really secure one.

Are arriving international passengers allowed to travel with their
luggage on the transits?

No, only your carry-ons. The checked luggage is removed (rather rudely,
perhaps because no-one is expecting it, and quite understandably doesn't
want to lose it)

I believe there is at least one airport in the US where international
arrivals do immigration, collect bags and go through customs at a
satellite terminal, then have to re-check their bags for the transit
ride to the main terminal.

I think both Seattle and Las Vegas do this. But Atlanta didn't (even in
their new terminal), and it's the change which unsettles people.
--
Roland Perry

Steve wrote:

Pax are no longer considered 'sterile' in the US once they have had
access to their suitcases, etc., at the US Customs facilities.

The TSA further doesn't trust the inspections performed at foreign
airports, and wants to look at the baggage of connecting passengers for
themselves.

In article ,
Lansbury wrote:

there is always one isn't there :-)

Of course. Life would be soooo boring if everything worked right
out of the box!

What sort of belt was it Angela?. Has it got a larger than
normal buckle because the average belt should not set them off.

It has got a slightly larger than normal buckle, but it's by
no means outsize. It didn't set off the alarms at Munich on
the way back, and the same security gate at T2 was quite happy
with it on the way out to ATH this summer. We shall see what
LCY and MAN make of it over the weekend.

You can imagine the work involved in checking the things every
time if they did.

Sounds just like being a software engineer after a new version
of a package has been released that the vendors swear blind
will be backwards compatible with your several thousand lines
of code ;-)

Angela

None wrote:

Passengers WILL be trained!!! No more games that cause delays. The idea is
if they are already in the middle of a delay from pulling your bags, they
can't stop or they delay becomes their own instead of a security/TSA delay.

Wise up!

Yep. That's just the sort of attitude that the airlines have adopted,
which makes air travel unpleasant. Line up here, shut up, don't ask
questions, keep your hands out of your pockets, take off your shoes,
don't even hint at arguing flight attendants, don't stand by the toilet
door at the front of the plane, don't get up and walk around the plane,
don't, don't, don't ...

It's small wonder that people feel frustrated by flying, and opt for
other forms of transportation for ever-longer journeys. The days of
relaxing air travel have for the most part disappeared. Instead, it is a
activity to be endured rather than enjoyed.

In message , James Robinson
writes
The TSA further doesn't trust the inspections performed at foreign
airports, and wants to look at the baggage of connecting passengers for
themselves.

Maybe they should put 200% import duty on terrorist weapons, then the
customs officials can get to work with those idle x-ray machines in
their hall.
--
Roland Perry

"Lansbury" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:51:23 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
wrote:

And, of course, people like the OP, who hold up the line for whatever
reason,

I realised I was holding people up which I guess made me more flustered
instead of taking a deep breath and seeing what was causing the laptop
to stick.

and then get surly with TSA and the other pax waiting behind them,
are a constant annoyance.

funny I don't recall saying I got surly with anyone in fact I said I ask
the TSA guy politely, I made a humourous comment at the guy sucking his
teeth, I guess from the resulting laughter in the queue it broke the
tension of those annoyed at my ineptitude to get the laptop out of the
bag. It was this guy who kindly translated what the TSA woman was
shouting at me so I guess he saw the funny side too and was only too
happy to help.

Perhaps I misread your original post, for which I apologize. However, if
you are holding up a line for whatever reason, the polite thing to do is
step aside.



--
Lansbury

In message , James Robinson
writes
It's small wonder that people feel frustrated by flying, and opt for
other forms of transportation for ever-longer journeys.

Yes, the 9/11 terrorists won that little battle against the USA economy,
didn't they?
--
Roland Perry

In message , PTRAVEL
writes
However, if you are holding up a line for whatever reason, the polite
thing to do is step aside.

When there's room. Often there isn't.
--
Roland Perry

"Lansbury" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:24:49 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
wrote:

Was this just an oversight on your part, or did you think, "Remove all
metal
objects" didn't apply to watches (or to you)?

Mines plastic, apart from a very small amount of metal in the workings,
which I bet is less then that in a wedding ring which you say is
acceptable. Which part of all metal objects don't you understand.

Funny thing is that watch has been through all the detectors at
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. Some at Chicago, Washington, Los Angles,
San Francisco, Portland, Frankfurt, Geneva, Prague, Barcelona, Madrid
and quite a few others and never set the detectors off.

Standards at European airports will be different from those in the U.S. As
for having made it through detectors at 5 U.S. airports, the point is not to
see what is the least you can do to get through the metal detector. As a
frequent flyer, it is my experience, traveling through dozens of _domestic_
airports a year many dozens of times, that a _primary_ annoyance of flying
in this post-9/11 world, are long lines at the security screening. It's bad
enough when everyone is doing their part to keep it moving. It is
significantly worse when the cause of the delay are the inevitably-present
passengers who (1) wait until they are right at the scanner to start
arranging their things, and (2) don't put watches, cellphones and other
metal objects on the belt and, instead, tell the screener, "That's funny, it
didn't set off the detector in Portland," as yet another TSA agent's time
must be taken for a secondary inspection.

Please just make it easy for all of us. Don't hold up the line -- step
aside if you're having a problem. Don't assume that your
watch/pen/earring/metal plate in your head that didn't set off the detector
in Portland, won't set it off in Detroit.



Not in any of the US airports including LAX on this trip have I taken my
watch off or been asked to do so, so not unnaturally I didn't consider
it necessary this time. Not because the rules don't apply to me but
based on previous practice of TSA officials on my trips through US
airports I didn't need to.

Just incase you have failed to grasp the point I wasn't objecting to
being searched or the need to be searched but to the behaviour of a
small number of TSA officials who I encountered on this trip. I made
those comments because I notice a sharp decline in the manners of the
TSA staff on this trip to previous ones, and is was consistent across
almost all those we had dealings with.
--
Lansbury

None wrote:

How about if you Doug & Wendy Whiner types just go to the TSA
website, PRINT a copy of the rules and carry them with you when you
travel. That way, you can argue with the TSA until the cows come
home, or they toss you in a holding pen.

As I pointed out, the rules are so vague that printing them is a waste
of time. I know of photographers who have printed out the sections
stating that hand inspection of film is an option, only to be told at
the security check to put the film through the scanner and don't argue.
So much for a written policy.

You seem to readily accept the arbitrary and nasty nature of security
inspections as acceptable. Some political beliefs, such as Fascism,
believe in the supremacy of the state, forced oppression of opposition,
and severe social regimentation. The security inspections haven't
reached that level - yet.

ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE! You are ALWAYS going to find a TSA screener who's
either on a power trip that day ...

Sure it can change. If enough passengers make their views known to
airlines and government representatives, it will not be left as it is.
There have already been changes as a result of political pressure, such
as relaxing restrictions on certain items, and the allowance of separate
lines for premium passengers.

The more people complain about certain issues, the more issues are added to
screener's routines. In other words, bitching only makes it worse.

Wrong. Only someone who readily accepts subjugation believes in giving
up. Arguing with a screener about arbitrary policies and practices will
not achieve much, other than frustration. Expressing displeasure to
politicians is more effective.

In the alternative, go to Egypt and pull that bitch and complain **** on El
Al and see how long it takes you to get out of an Egyptian jail.

Been there. The security is much more straight-forward. They hand
checked film on request, and you had to submit to a body pat-down. The
rules were clear, they were professional, and it took less time than the
Keystone Kops exercise at many US airports.

Welcome Aboard!

James Robinson wrote in message

It just about sums up how arbitrary the rules are. I especially like
the following sections when juxtaposed:

- If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint, you may be
criminally and/or civilly prosecuted ...

- To ensure everyone's security, the screener may determine that an item
not on the prohibited items chart is prohibited.