Riding first class to avoid pickpockets

Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
fixation that is unwarranted. It is, of course, sensible to be careful, but
some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the streets of
most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear. There
are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the Spanish
Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or around the
Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S. The odds are
very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken -- thieves
prefer the easy to the difficult. In fifty years of travel to many of the
most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London, Oxford,
Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a day),
I have never had my pocket picked, and my wife suffered it once -- from a
foolishly open handbag in the Selfridges' Christmas shopping crush.
I cannot imagine a thief trying to run down a railway aisle with very
heavy suitcase and then jumping off the train in order not to get caught.
And taking the chance that his loot will be mostly dirty underwear.
The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that one is
as safe traveling as at home. I am more nervous in an American Shopping
center than anywhere else.
rjf


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot
it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

Bob Fusillo wrote:
The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
fixation that is unwarranted. It is, of course, sensible to be careful, but
some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the streets of
most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear. There
are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the Spanish
Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or around the
Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S. The odds are
very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken -- thieves
prefer the easy to the difficult. In fifty years of travel to many of the
most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London, Oxford,
Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a day),
I have never had my pocket picked, and my wife suffered it once -- from a
foolishly open handbag in the Selfridges' Christmas shopping crush.
I cannot imagine a thief trying to run down a railway aisle with very
heavy suitcase and then jumping off the train in order not to get caught.
And taking the chance that his loot will be mostly dirty underwear.
The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that one is
as safe traveling as at home. I am more nervous in an American Shopping
center than anywhere else.
rjf


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...

Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot

it

I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup


Bob,

You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional
pickpockets who work the train stations and other public areas in
Europe. We have very few of those characters in the USA. Thus, Americans
have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves, and are easy
marks when they travel in Europe.

But what we do have are muggers and car jackers who shoot first and then
steal your goods. Our "professionals" are much more open and brutal than
the subtle and clever thieves of Europe.

I've had several pickpocket attempts on me and have talked to many
others who have experienced the same in Europe. You must be on guard,
but not paranoid, whenever you are in a public place.

John Bermont

--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------

John Bermont schrieb:


Bob Fusillo wrote:

The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
fixation that is unwarranted. It is, of course, sensible to be
careful, but
some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the
streets of
most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear.
There
are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the
Spanish
Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or
around the
Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S. The
odds are
very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken -- thieves
prefer the easy to the difficult. In fifty years of travel to many of the
most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London,
Oxford,
Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a
day),
I have never had my pocket picked, and my wife suffered it once -- from a
foolishly open handbag in the Selfridges' Christmas shopping crush.
I cannot imagine a thief trying to run down a railway aisle with very
heavy suitcase and then jumping off the train in order not to get caught.
And taking the chance that his loot will be mostly dirty underwear.
The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that
one is
as safe traveling as at home. I am more nervous in an American Shopping
center than anywhere else.
rjf


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...

Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero
dot


it

I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup



Bob,

You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional
pickpockets who work the train stations and other public areas in
Europe. We have very few of those characters in the USA. Thus, Americans
have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves, and are easy
marks when they travel in Europe.

But what we do have are muggers and car jackers who shoot first and then
steal your goods. Our "professionals" are much more open and brutal than
the subtle and clever thieves of Europe.

I've had several pickpocket attempts on me and have talked to many
others who have experienced the same in Europe. You must be on guard,
but not paranoid, whenever you are in a public place.

John Bermont


Where in Europe??

Sweden? Norway? Germany? Switzerland?.....?

Can't imagine

John Bermont schrieb:


Bob Fusillo wrote:

The regularly recurring comments on this site about pickpockets suggest a
fixation that is unwarranted. It is, of course, sensible to be
careful, but
some people have the impression that it is not safe to walk the
streets of
most European cities without their money stapled to their underwear.
There
are pickpockets in Trafalgar Square, around the Eiffel Tower, on the
Spanish
Steps, the Rialto Bridge -- but no more than in Times Square, or
around the
Bean in Chicago, or in most large shopping centers in the U.S. The
odds are
very much against victimhood if the slightest care is taken -- thieves
prefer the easy to the difficult. In fifty years of travel to many of the
most crowded places ( and in living in several -- Stratford, London,
Oxford,
Venice -- I fight my way up and down the Rialto Bridge several times a
day),
I have never had my pocket picked, and my wife suffered it once -- from a
foolishly open handbag in the Selfridges' Christmas shopping crush.
I cannot imagine a thief trying to run down a railway aisle with very
heavy suitcase and then jumping off the train in order not to get caught.
And taking the chance that his loot will be mostly dirty underwear.
The presence of jails in even the smallest towns all over the world
suggests that there are thieves everywhere -- the conclusion is that
one is
as safe traveling as at home. I am more nervous in an American Shopping
center than anywhere else.
rjf


"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...

Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero
dot


it

I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup



Bob,

You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional
pickpockets who work the train stations and other public areas in
Europe. We have very few of those characters in the USA. Thus, Americans
have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves, and are easy
marks when they travel in Europe.

But what we do have are muggers and car jackers who shoot first and then
steal your goods. Our "professionals" are much more open and brutal than
the subtle and clever thieves of Europe.

I've had several pickpocket attempts on me and have talked to many
others who have experienced the same in Europe. You must be on guard,
but not paranoid, whenever you are in a public place.

John Bermont


Where in Europe??

Sweden? Norway? Germany? Switzerland?.....?

Can't imagine

B Vaughan wrote:

Someone suggested buying first class train tickets in Italy to avoid
luggage thieves and pickpockets. I've thought about this, and it
doesn't make any sense. Anyone can walk through the first class
carriage, and if I were a thief or pickpocket I would work there
rather than in second class.

I can't argue wrt Italian trains. I've only ever travelled standard
class on them, and never noticed what first class is like. However, on
UK trains, first class is typically quite empty. On some trains, barely
anyone is in the carriage. Pickpockets aren't a problem that I'm aware
of on UK trains though, but I'd have thought that a crowded standard
class carriage would be more attractive for bag snatchers etc., than an
almost empty first class carriage. In the UK anyway.

I don't know if passengers in first class necesssarily make richer
pickings. They don't necesarily carry more valuables, cash etc., do
they?

I'm not suggesting choosing either class to avoid thieves by the way.
The best way to avoid having your stuff stolen is to be alert, and keep
your bags within eyeshot.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

John Bermont wrote:

[]
You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional
pickpockets who work the train stations and other public areas in
Europe. We have very few of those characters in the USA. Thus, Americans
have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves, and are easy
marks when they travel in Europe.

As Italy is under discussion here, I've certainly read enough to make me
think there is more risk (my ex had luggage stolen from a stationary
train in Florence)- and I'm aware of my luggage when on an Italian
train, but not paranoid. I suspect the problem is worse in certain areas
of Europe though, and I imagine I'm not the only European reader who
doesn't quite identify with your assessment of the entire continent.
Theft from trains is relatively rare in the UK, for example, though not
unheard of, and I imagine that it's a localised problem in Italy too-
i.e. probably mostly confined to stations with large numbers of
tourists. I've pointed out before that most of the time you are
cautioned against leaving your luggage unattended at UK train stations,
it is because of the security issues- i.e. people may think it's a bomb
and close the station etc. If you travel on the London Underground
regularly, you will know how much inconvenience this can cause. Not just
in London- during the summer, we were ejected from a Theatre in
Manchester because someone had left their shopping bags unattended in a
toilet in a shopping mall a few blocks away. Police vans, dogs, two
helicopters circling overhead- the works!

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Alas -- why is the "modern" world so much more unpleasant to live in than it
was in the old, unenlightened one? I remember I was passing thru Rotterdam
on the train ( in 1957) and wanted to see the Gabo. I got off the train, put
my bags down in the waiting room, asked the lady in the ticket booth to keep
an eye on them, went off for a half hour to see the sculpture, returned to
my untouched baggage, and caught the next train. Could I do that today?
rjf


"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn"
wrote in message
news:1gpkjbt.i2l9do10ju6vwN%this_address_is_for_sp ...
John Bermont wrote:

[]
You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional
pickpockets who work the train stations and other public areas in
Europe. We have very few of those characters in the USA. Thus, Americans
have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves, and are easy
marks when they travel in Europe.

As Italy is under discussion here, I've certainly read enough to make me
think there is more risk (my ex had luggage stolen from a stationary
train in Florence)- and I'm aware of my luggage when on an Italian
train, but not paranoid. I suspect the problem is worse in certain areas
of Europe though, and I imagine I'm not the only European reader who
doesn't quite identify with your assessment of the entire continent.
Theft from trains is relatively rare in the UK, for example, though not
unheard of, and I imagine that it's a localised problem in Italy too-
i.e. probably mostly confined to stations with large numbers of
tourists. I've pointed out before that most of the time you are
cautioned against leaving your luggage unattended at UK train stations,
it is because of the security issues- i.e. people may think it's a bomb
and close the station etc. If you travel on the London Underground
regularly, you will know how much inconvenience this can cause. Not just
in London- during the summer, we were ejected from a Theatre in
Manchester because someone had left their shopping bags unattended in a
toilet in a shopping mall a few blocks away. Police vans, dogs, two
helicopters circling overhead- the works!

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"Rita" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:04:45 GMT, "Bob Fusillo"
wrote:


I cannot imagine a thief trying to run down a railway aisle with very
heavy suitcase and then jumping off the train in order not to get caught.
And taking the chance that his loot will be mostly dirty underwear.

No, but some years ago I was riding first class with a Eurail
pass and got into a conversation with an American couple who
had had their luggage stolen from the train during a station
stop. They were both out of the car, eating, at the time.
The train authorities told them thieves sometimes boarded the
trains at stops, grabbed some luggage and got off quickly.
Unfortunately, the woman had very foolishly packed a lot of
expensive jewelry in one of her bags, and they also had
packed medications they needed.

Moral of story, I guess, is don't pack valuable stuff or
medications, best to leave the former at home and carry
the meds on your person.

A better moral: Watch your luggage. We'll either keep an eye on our bags at
station stops, or we carry a small bicycle lock and chain the bags together
(and, if possible, to the car).

"John Bermont" wrote in message
...

snip

You fail to acknowledge that there is a legion of professional pickpockets
who work the train stations and other public areas in Europe. We have very
few of those characters in the USA.

That's not quite true. The graduates of the South American pickpocket
schools frequently target New York. However, as with Americans in Europe,
it is far easier for them to go after tourists than locals.

Thus, Americans have no experience with pickpockets and luggage thieves,
and are easy marks when they travel in Europe.

I've never heard of anyone, American tourist in Europe or otherwise, who has
been pickpocketed IF they take common-sense precautions. Perhaps we've just
been lucky, but my wife and I have visited Europe (and Asia and Africa)
dozens of times and never been pickpocketed or, for that matter, targetted
by any thief or con artist, despite carrying expensive camera equipment and
looking rather obviously like tourists.


But what we do have are muggers and car jackers who shoot first and then
steal your goods. Our "professionals" are much more open and brutal than
the subtle and clever thieves of Europe.

This is true, though it is inaccurate to portray this problem as common.


I've had several pickpocket attempts on me and have talked to many others
who have experienced the same in Europe. You must be on guard, but not
paranoid, whenever you are in a public place.

Exactly right -- all that's necessary is a little common sense.


John Bermont

--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------