African-American Female traveling to Europe November-December

Alan Harrison writes:

I'm not sure why the original poster is particularly concerned about her
reception as an African-American woman.

Because Americans are obsessed with race, especially black Americans,
and they think that everyone else is, too.

I regularly tell black Americans that, in Europe, they are not black,
they are _American_. But it's hard for them to overcome the racial
obsession.

In much of western Europe, Vonetta won't stand out as
American, although she will be recognised as such when
British people hear her accent.

American blacks are surprisingly easy to spot, even when they aren't
speaking. They usually have very light skin, which gives them away, and
so does their style of dress, which betrays a higher standard of living
and hygiene than that of the local African black immigrants.

Most large and medium sized cities/towns in Britain have a
substantial Afro-Caribbean population, as I think do similar
cities in France, and so she will not appear "different" on
acccount of her colour.

I don't know about Caribbean blacks, but the difference between American
blacks and African blacks is ... well, like night and day.

--
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Vonetta --

Here's a good source of info for women travellers:
http://www.journeywoman.com/

Sarah

"Vonetta" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I'm planning to travel to Europe in late November. Specifically,
Paris and London. I was wondering if anyone else was going around that
time. And could they possibly give me some tips as to what's the best
hostels or budget hotels to go to for females as well as what things i
should do. This is my first time to Europe. Thanks V

Mxsmanic wrote:

Vonetta writes:

Thanks, this information helps a lot. What about places to see and go.
I guess places where it's more ethnic and afrocentric friendly.

Maybe you should leave the chip on your shoulder and the paranoia at
home. You'll enjoy Europe more that way.

It's plain you've not lived in the U.S. for some time. Her attitude
reflects neither a "chip on her shoulder" nor paranoia - if she's never
been outside the U.S., she has no way of knowing that she won't
encounter the same sort of treatment there as she clearly has, wherever
in the U.S. she lives. Despite the law and the efforts of TV series to
make the populace perceive black Americans as part of the mainstream,
prejudice still exists. (It may not be as perceptible to whites, but it
is there nonetheless - the recipients may sometimes magnify the
"slights" they receive, but it's simplistic to think they no longer
happen.)



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In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" "evgmsop-no
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

Vonetta writes:

Thanks, this information helps a lot. What about places to see and go.
I guess places where it's more ethnic and afrocentric friendly.

Maybe you should leave the chip on your shoulder and the paranoia at
home. You'll enjoy Europe more that way.

It's plain you've not lived in the U.S. for some time. Her attitude
reflects neither a "chip on her shoulder" nor paranoia - if she's never
been outside the U.S.,


she has no way of knowing that she won't
encounter the same sort of treatment there as she clearly has, wherever
in the U.S. she lives.

How quintessential, you just make things up to fit your agenda!

This is the OP first and only other post:

Hi, I'm planning to travel to Europe in late November. Specifically,
Paris and London. I was wondering if anyone else was going around that
time. And could they possibly give me some tips as to what's the best
hostels or budget hotels to go to for females as well as what things i
should do. This is my first time to Europe. Thanks V

What treatment ?

jay
Sat, Oct 18, 2003






Despite the law and the efforts of TV series to
make the populace perceive black Americans as part of the mainstream,
prejudice still exists. (It may not be as perceptible to whites, but it
is there nonetheless - the recipients may sometimes magnify the
"slights" they receive, but it's simplistic to think they no longer
happen.)



--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

... if she's never been outside the U.S., she has no way
of knowing that she won't encounter the same sort of treatment
there as she clearly has, wherever in the U.S. she lives.

What sort of treatment is that?

Despite the law and the efforts of TV series to
make the populace perceive black Americans as part of
the mainstream, prejudice still exists.

Really? Why do so many black people find it impossible to cite a single
clear instance of it when asked, then? (Yes, I've asked a lot of them
about it, and they can rarely ever come up with anything.)

It may not be as perceptible to whites ...

It's not even perceptible to blacks ... because it isn't there.

... the recipients may sometimes magnify the
"slights" they receive ...

The slights they receive are largely imaginary, a result of their
paranoia and prejudices. An innocent slight that would not be seen as
particularly significant by a white person will be seen as a racial slur
or prejudice by many black people. Of course, it's the same,
non-racially-motivated act in both cases ... only the perception
changes.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Alan Harrison writes:

I'm not sure why the original poster is particularly concerned about her
reception as an African-American woman.

Because Americans are obsessed with race, especially black Americans,
and they think that everyone else is, too.

I regularly tell black Americans that, in Europe, they are not black,
they are _American_. But it's hard for them to overcome the racial
obsession.

In much of western Europe, Vonetta won't stand out as
American, although she will be recognised as such when
British people hear her accent.

American blacks are surprisingly easy to spot, even when they aren't
speaking. They usually have very light skin, which gives them away, and
so does their style of dress, which betrays a higher standard of living
and hygiene than that of the local African black immigrants.

Most large and medium sized cities/towns in Britain have a
substantial Afro-Caribbean population, as I think do similar
cities in France, and so she will not appear "different" on
acccount of her colour.

I don't know about Caribbean blacks, but the difference between American
blacks and African blacks is ... well, like night and day.


And your credentials as an expert on these matters are??? Why post on the
internet when your sheets probaly need ironing for that next rally.
--
Yankee Bob Inc.
(At a loss for something clever to say here)


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Mxsmanic wrote:
Really? Why do so many black people find it impossible to cite a single
clear instance of it when asked, then? (Yes, I've asked a lot of them
about it, and they can rarely ever come up with anything.)

My coloring is somewhere between black and white. When I walk around stores
with a white friend, we're largely ignored. When I walk around with a black
friend, there's always a staffer relocating to the end of whatever aisle
we're in (so they can watch us), etc.

Maybe it's because we're so beautiful and glamorous that nobody can take
their eyes off us, but I suspect it's something else.

This doesn't happen at every store, far from it. But it definitely does
happen and it's not hard to notice. It doesn't affect my career prospects or
my opportunities to rent a property or run for office or whatever, but it's
nevertheless annoying.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Yankee Bob writes:

And your credentials as an expert on these matters are???

I see both categories of blacks every day: American blacks (although
they look quite white around here), and actual African blacks. The
_only_ thing the two groups have in common is fairly dark skin.
American blacks who feel kinship with Africans are indulging a vivid
imagination. I have more in common with the Japanese than they have in
common with Africans.

--
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Miguel Cruz writes:

My coloring is somewhere between black and white. When I walk around stores
with a white friend, we're largely ignored. When I walk around with a black
friend, there's always a staffer relocating to the end of whatever aisle
we're in (so they can watch us), etc.

Unfortunately, in the United States, blacks are disproportionately
represented within the criminal population. Just as someone carrying a
gun tends to be more suspect than an unarmed person--even if he has no
intention of using the gun--someone who is black tends to be more
suspect than someone who is white. This type of prejudice is
empirically justified, even though it isn't very pretty.

This doesn't happen at every store, far from it.

The more unusual it is to see black people in the store, the more
suspect they will seem.

I get exactly the same reaction when walking next to orthodox Jewish
synagogues. Most people in that area are Jewish and orthodox and
wearing a yarmulke (if they are male). Since I'm not wearing one and
I'm pretty obviously not Jewish, I am silently watched. It's a clear
case of prejudice, but I can understand it (although I'd suggest that
they try to be more discreet about it).

It doesn't affect my career prospects or my opportunities to rent
a property or run for office or whatever, but it's nevertheless annoying.

It doesn't affect your black friend's prospects, either.

I can still walk into a delicatessen in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood
and get service like anyone else. The fact that they may be wary of my
presence does not prevent or impede this. They are not stupid--just
cautious.

--
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Go Fig wrote:

In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" "evgmsop-no
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

Vonetta writes:

Thanks, this information helps a lot. What about places to see and go.
I guess places where it's more ethnic and afrocentric friendly.

Maybe you should leave the chip on your shoulder and the paranoia at
home. You'll enjoy Europe more that way.

It's plain you've not lived in the U.S. for some time. Her attitude
reflects neither a "chip on her shoulder" nor paranoia - if she's never
been outside the U.S.,

she has no way of knowing that she won't
encounter the same sort of treatment there as she clearly has, wherever
in the U.S. she lives.

How quintessential, you just make things up to fit your agenda!

Another idiotic perosnal attack from "Go Fig". (Ho-hum, what else is
new?)


This is the OP first and only other post:

Agreed, that was her FIRST post, but she made several more after that -
either you haven't been following the thread, or your server is omitting
posts.