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#141
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OT Political (was re Fire)
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote: Hatunen wrote: some branches of protestantism that do not accept the Trinity I guess that's what I was told about when a youth. I was probably told by a protestant who believed it had to do with protestantism in general rather than a particular branch thereof. I was too ignorant to know any better and too disinterested to give a damn. Peter D said: If you must represent what others believe, at least have the decency (and respect for them and their beliefs) to learn what they believe. You've seen the tagline before. Obviously I thought I knew. Apparently I did not. You're welcome to seek, and point out, my future mistakes. You have my personal guarantee that they'll appear. I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto, not a Christian. No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity. So where is the clarification about me shoving you up against a wall and getting in your face hmmmm? Possibly even an apology for misstating the facts. That's news t'me. -- _________________________________________________ __________________ A San Franciscan whose respect for each religion is equal. http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/ TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com Bob Ford Images In Motion www.imagesinmotion.com |
#142
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OT Political (was re Fire)
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote: I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto, not a Christian. No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity. Um I said the stuff you're respOnding to, and I wasn't responding to you. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#143
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OT Political (was re Fire)
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:17:23 -0600, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:
"Hatunen" wrote On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:15:55 -0600, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote: "Hatunen" wrote in message I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto, not a Christian. You'd be right if that's what I actually said. But I didn't. HAND Yes you did. You said "Christans believe in the Trinitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit)". You didn't say "Some Christans believe in the Trinitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit) You removed the quote from the context. I said, "Christian believe this... Catholics believe this...". The "this" being idientical to counter what Lew/Ike stated (that they believed differently). Hump my cyber-leg some more if you must. Be offended if it strokes your ego. I don't care. This is the end of the conversation as far as I'm concerned. What you said was: Christans believe in the Tirnitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit). Catholics believe in the Trinitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit). "Catholic" is a group that is contained in "Christian". I leave it to our other readers to decide whether you have included all Christians in the category of those who believe in the Trinity, thereby excluding anyone who does not believe in the Trinity from the category "Christian". The English seems plain enough to me. There is a mode of thinking that claims that one is not a Christian unless one's personal credo agrees with the Apostle's or nicene Creeds, which include the Trinity. I certainly wouldn't go that far. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#144
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OT Political (was re Fire)
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Icono Clast wrote in article
: [ the Trinity] I think I was still a teen-ager when someone pointed out to me that one of the big dif'rences 'tween the Catholics and other Christians was that Catholics believe the three to be one and others the Catholics' one to be three. For about the last 1600 years (since well before there were Protestants or Orthodox or Catholic - those names came later) there has been general theological agreement that God is one (cf. Muslim doctrine "Allah is one/there is only one Allah and Muhammad is his prophet"). The "persons" of the Trinity are named for the masks worn in Greek theater; the point is that the one God appears to mankind in different "masks". Outside of ecclesiastics and academics not many people have a clear understanding of that simple issue - which in fact has been at the root of many brutal and bloody religious wars. It is true that from the earliest times there were individuals and groups that did not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, including Muslims and Unitarians of various backgrounds. -- Don Kirkman |
#145
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OT Political (was re Fire)
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote: Hatunen wrote: some branches of protestantism that do not accept the Trinity I guess that's what I was told about when a youth. I was probably told by a protestant who believed it had to do with protestantism in general rather than a particular branch thereof. I was too ignorant to know any better and too disinterested to give a damn. Peter D said: If you must represent what others believe, at least have the decency (and respect for them and their beliefs) to learn what they believe. You've seen the tagline before. Obviously I thought I knew. Apparently I did not. You're welcome to seek, and point out, my future mistakes. You have my personal guarantee that they'll appear. I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto, not a Christian. No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity. Well I'm waiting for your clarification of your misstatements our conversation, or are you like some people who don't apologize even when they know they are wrong. As active as you are on this ng I know you have read my comments. Remind me not to have conversations with you unless there are witnesses present. That's news t'me. -- _________________________________________________ __________________ A San Franciscan whose respect for each religion is equal. http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/ TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com Bob Ford Images In Motion www.imagesinmotion.com |
#146
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OT Political (was re Fire)
Thank you for the clarification.
Don Kirkman wrote: Icono Clast wrote: [ the Trinity] I think I was still a teen-ager when someone pointed out to me that one of the big dif'rences 'tween the Catholics and other Christians was that Catholics believe the three to be one and others the Catholics' one to be three. For about the last 1600 years (since well before there were Protestants or Orthodox or Catholic - those names came later) there has been general theological agreement that God is one (cf. Muslim doctrine "Allah is one/there is only one Allah and Muhammad is his prophet"). The "persons" of the Trinity are named for the masks worn in Greek theater; the point is that the one God appears to mankind in different "masks". Outside of ecclesiastics and academics not many people have a clear understanding of that simple issue - which in fact has been at the root of many brutal and bloody religious wars. It is true that from the earliest times there were individuals and groups that did not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, including Muslims and Unitarians of various backgrounds. -- __________________________________________________ _________________ A San Franciscan whose reverence for each god is equal. http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/ TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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