Lengthening, of Enchantment of the Seas!

"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
news
On one of the TV shows, they said that a lot of stuff on the upper decks
of
Voyager class ships are made of aluminum. Maybe they could do the same on
Century class ships. Slice off the pool deck and sun deck, and add 3 new
decks made of aluminum.



I would hope they never do that. Three additional decks of passenger cabins
with the exact same deck space plopped on top. Not a good idea.

As was pointed out, NORWAY did have decks added on top of existing decks.
Same with QE2. I think I'm correct in saying that a cruise ship has never
been sliced in two parts horizontally, with full length decks added, then
the original top deck placed back on top. I think this would be a very
difficult task.

Ernie

"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
news
On one of the TV shows, they said that a lot of stuff on the upper decks
of
Voyager class ships are made of aluminum. Maybe they could do the same on
Century class ships. Slice off the pool deck and sun deck, and add 3 new
decks made of aluminum.



I would hope they never do that. Three additional decks of passenger cabins
with the exact same deck space plopped on top. Not a good idea.

As was pointed out, NORWAY did have decks added on top of existing decks.
Same with QE2. I think I'm correct in saying that a cruise ship has never
been sliced in two parts horizontally, with full length decks added, then
the original top deck placed back on top. I think this would be a very
difficult task.

Ernie

"E.k.R." wrote in message
...

"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
news
On one of the TV shows, they said that a lot of stuff on the upper
decks
of
Voyager class ships are made of aluminum. Maybe they could do the same
on
Century class ships. Slice off the pool deck and sun deck, and add 3
new
decks made of aluminum.



I would hope they never do that. Three additional decks of passenger
cabins
with the exact same deck space plopped on top. Not a good idea.

As was pointed out, NORWAY did have decks added on top of existing decks.
Same with QE2. I think I'm correct in saying that a cruise ship has never
been sliced in two parts horizontally, with full length decks added, then
the original top deck placed back on top. I think this would be a very
difficult task.

Ernie



Galaxy is 100 ft. shorter than Millie. If you added about 100 ft., that's
only about 10 cabins worth in terms of length. Let's say that translates to
about 200-250 additional cabins. I guess that world work.

--Tom

"E.k.R." wrote in message
...

"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
news
On one of the TV shows, they said that a lot of stuff on the upper
decks
of
Voyager class ships are made of aluminum. Maybe they could do the same
on
Century class ships. Slice off the pool deck and sun deck, and add 3
new
decks made of aluminum.



I would hope they never do that. Three additional decks of passenger
cabins
with the exact same deck space plopped on top. Not a good idea.

As was pointed out, NORWAY did have decks added on top of existing decks.
Same with QE2. I think I'm correct in saying that a cruise ship has never
been sliced in two parts horizontally, with full length decks added, then
the original top deck placed back on top. I think this would be a very
difficult task.

Ernie



Galaxy is 100 ft. shorter than Millie. If you added about 100 ft., that's
only about 10 cabins worth in terms of length. Let's say that translates to
about 200-250 additional cabins. I guess that world work.

--Tom

My name having been invoked....lol....but I do like the M-class ships,
quite a bit, although have only been on Millie twice and not the other 3
ships. I love the theater, the dining room is beautiful as always, the
Platinum club is gorgeous, dance floor or not, Cova is attractive, the
shops area is among the most attractive at sea (imho), like the flower
shop thingy and the sports bar is nice for what it is. Like the art
collection as well. The t-pool isn't as good as the C class, but it's
free, and we'll be in Alaska (keep the kiddies out lol...) Are they as
inventive and differentiated from one another as the C-class
ships....no. But I think they are still a solid product, and
recognizably Celebrity. I think they are more X than the Zenith and
Horizon (mon dieu! aka, no t-pool at all, some after-thought
re-engineering to add X signature spaces...Michael's Club, etc., dining
room on one level, no atrium, etc., although we enjoyed our Horizon
sailing much.)

I'll see first hand in just a few weeks how X product delivery is doing
these days on the Mercury (which is actually my least favorite of the
C-class ships, although it has its own "mod" feeling of its own). Will
be my first cruise in a year, and first on X in 1.5+ years.
Interestingly enough....although Alaska can fetch a nice price for the
cruise line, I am paying several hundred dollars less this year per
person for a balcony cabin (concierge class no less) than I paid when we
sailed on the Galaxy to Alaska 4(5?) years ago. That's just how much
the market has changed I guess?

We'll see how it goes....since I've done these ports before I have a
very mellow -- relax, workout, go to the spa (hot stones, anything with
mud), sit in the hot tub watching the beautiful scenery go by, hanging
out with friends and family -- kind'o'cruise. I know the Mercury very
well so nothing new to explore, do love its art collection so probably
will go look at it. Hoping I'll see some staff favorites from the past
2 times I sailed on her a year+ ago.

Bring on the irish coffee! If Andre Smith, the South African king
of flaming coffee preparation is on board, then it will be a notable
sailing lol!

Jeff

"Jeff Coudriet" wrote in message
...
We'll see how it goes....since I've done these ports before I have a
very mellow -- relax, workout, go to the spa (hot stones, anything with
mud), sit in the hot tub watching the beautiful scenery go by, hanging
out with friends and family -- kind'o'cruise. I know the Mercury very
well so nothing new to explore, do love its art collection so probably
will go look at it. Hoping I'll see some staff favorites from the past
2 times I sailed on her a year+ ago.

Bring on the irish coffee! If Andre Smith, the South African king
of flaming coffee preparation is on board, then it will be a notable
sailing lol!

Jeff



Have a great time Jeff. I think those are the very best cruises.... those
where you really don't have to do anything. I guess that is why I love
transatlantic cruises so much! MERCURY is also a favorite of mine, so I'm
sure she will be just as good as you remember. If anything, I think
Celebrity has probably improved compared to a year or two ago.

Like you I also loved the M-Class. I've only sailed on INFINITY but it was
one of the best cruises I've ever taken. The ship was wonderful, food and
service excellent, company fantastic, and Hawaii was breathtaking. A win,
win, win of a cruise!

Best,
Ernie

Tom & Linda wrote:

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
nk.net...


People like Jeff C and I love them. And to me, lack of a dance floor

that

would otherwise rarely get used dosn't make them failures. And being

90,000

tons doesn't make them failures. I think they are the best ships out

there.

Not failures at all.


I don't think they are failures. I don't like their design and lack of
creativity in advancing Celebrity's product. I don't find them to take
chances and be innovative like the Century class. Mason, Babette and
others don't love them. We are on different sides of the camp on our
opinion of the Millie ships.



But you said that Celebrity was failing.


I said their reputation was falling, not that they are failing.

Ben S.

Differences of opinion of the Millie class ships doesn't make them failures.
I absolutely hated Carnival Destiny. That doesn't make it a failure. It's
probably one of the most profitable ships in the history of the cruise
industry.

--Tom

Charles wrote:

In article , E.k.R.
wrote:


I applaud RCI for taking the initiative to invest in what they've already
got. Too many other lines are concentrated only on what the next new ship
is, meanwhile the older ships are looking worn and tired. This move also


I agree with your take on the lenghtening over Ben and Howards.
Rereading the press release and seeing the before and after picture,
along with your comments, I don't agree with the idea that it means
"another beautiful ship bites the dust". I don't think there is a
reason to get upset about this.


Bigger is better? Why? Why can't we improve without making something
larger? I have no problems with renovation, bringing the ships up to a
current standard as much as possible. But a choice for a certain size
ship with a certain amount of people has been taken away. We aren't
getting upset. Howie used the word "undesirable" and it is about the
growing size of the ship and he wasn't impressed with what's being
added. RCI's food could stand improvement, so can their overall
maintenance of their ships in the opinion of some, and that addresses
quality. So, while sprucing up a ship and making it somewhat bigger is a
smart idea dollar wise vs. buying new ships, there's a quality issue
that's not being addressed. What I see are a lot of revenue enhancement
devices and cosmetic improvements and adding of features while core
values of food quality and personalized service aren't being improved.
If cruise customers are willing to accept this, then that's what you'll
get. Overall, I think RCI's product is fine though they tend to have no
real individual ships but a single evolving type of ship that many find
to be aesthetically pleasing. Their rapid introduction of new ships
tends to obsolete their old ships.

I think the cruise industry's introduction of new ships is problematic
in that people will expect new ships at the same rate they've been
coming since the mid 90s. But the new ship is more the emphasis than the
product quality. People on Crystal don't care that the Harmony is 14
years old, the Symphony 10 years old. People on the QE2 actually enjoy
that the ship is a vintage liner with its seakeeping capabilities. HAL
fans that enjoy the Statendam class ships enjoy their size and ambiance
and community feel and aren't interested in the Vista class. A lot of
people are looking for the new ship that's very affordable, and quality
isn't on their minds. That's why the cruise industry is doing well. The
NA market isn't that interested in quality. Other markets may have
different priorities, maybe that's where I belong. In a market where
customers look for quality over the latest ships and features. But maybe
you'll guys will benefit someday from people who are bitching now. If
quality goes up you'll get better service and food with alternatives to
revenue enhancement than crude and, for some of us, insulting nickle and
diming on young and middle age but fewer brand new ships.

Ben S.

Jeff Coudriet wrote:

But I think they are still a solid product, and
recognizably Celebrity. I think they are more X than the Zenith and
Horizon (mon dieu! aka, no t-pool at all, some after-thought
re-engineering to add X signature spaces...Michael's Club, etc., dining
room on one level, no atrium, etc., although we enjoyed our Horizon
sailing much.)


Jeff, I disagree with that completely. The Zenith and Horizon are far
more X than the Millennium ships. They were designed from the ground up
to be Celebrity ships. The Zenith and Horizon are earlier in Celebrity's
development where romance of the sea without all of the middish 90s and
later amenities were important. The ships were about serving fine food,
and providing personalized service on somewhat yacht-like profiled
ships, when they were designed Celebrity had not established signature
areas like Michael's, Cova, and others. Celebrity ships do not have
atria, anyone looking for an atrium will be disappointed. The Century
and Millie class ships have Grand Foyers that aren't meant to be
crossroads or atria, but large lobbies (this is a significant difference
in the function of the space). The Zenith and Horizon were redesigned,
refurbished, to include some of the signature areas of a middle 90s
Celebrity cruise ships and most of the areas were implemented decently.
They can't do a 2 level dining room in the stern with picture windows so
the one level dining room will do. I think that's their weakest area, a
chintzy, dated dining room that's not up to the level it should be. I
think these should have been refurbished and redesigned when the other
changes were done and are way overdue.

And I'm sorry, it really isn't considerate not to think of the aft
lounge as a major area of the ship and a signature Celebrity space. I
don't use casinos, nor do I use pools, but these are essential areas for
other people who cruise. The aft lounge on Celebrity ships is where much
activity takes place including ballroom dancing and other types of
dancing and it is a meet and mingle ambiance that was for me an
essential part of what made a Celebrity ship a Celebrity ship.

The Millie class ships pretty much have most of the Century class ships
spaces with the addition of the specialty restaurant, the Conservatory
of Emille Robio, a two-tier listening room, a two-tier library. Two-tier
public areas are a big part of RCI ships, the Vision class ships have
these. This is pure RCI in Celebrity. The specialty restaurant? Name a
line now that doesn't have one. The Conservatory? The outdoor space in
front of the lido is gone, that's a big space on the Horizon and Century
ships, gone on the Millie. The glass elevators, doesn't Radiance class
have them? Doesn't HAL have them now on Vista ships? Cigar bar, gone
from the Millie class as it was oversized. The t-pool? It is nothing
more than a reworking of the Solarium on RCI ships. The Millie is a
hybrid, looks like Celebrity because it uses the same Celebrity
designers as the Century class, but shares flow and feel with RCI. The
lack of the aft lounge not only takes away a dance floor, but a lounge
and ambiance *independent of* the Rendezvous lounge. The Connie felt
limiting to me because it really didn't have many lounges. The big
observation lounge is far away from the lounges on the main floors, the
Rendezvous has the duo, but if you don't want to hear them, where do you
go? To the Martini/Champagne Bar upstairs with a hole right in the
middle of the lounge? You'll hear them. There are two main lounges on
this huge ship, Rendezvous and upstairs observation lounge. That's it.
That's what I don't like about this ship and it is hard to notice this
omission if you are a family cruiser or if you are not interested in
couples dancing and being around this atmosphere. And that's one of the
major reasons why I cruise, to be around that atmosphere.

Ben S.

Ray Goldenberg wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:46:16 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:


Showing they can be popular doesn't speak to the quality of the onboard
experience. The comments of the people who did not find the quality of
to the claims reveal that Celebrity should be marketing themselves as a
value line, which is why they are popular, and not the premium line with
award-winning cuisine they claim to be. If the comment scores have
risen, I doubt they are from veteran Celebrity cruisers. Celebrity has
changed its target market while claiming to market to discerning
customers. That's my problem with both Celebrity and HAL.


Hi Ben,

I beg your pardon but I do not understand your reply. They are doing
better on their comment cards from the folks that are sailing with
them.


That's very general. Better on their comment cards in what areas? Are
they talking about entertainment? cabin amenities? opinions on so-called
touch of luxury enhancements?

Are they up in overall cuisine? Creativeness of cuisine? Presentation of
cuisine? Menu variation, or do they offer a dumbed-down version of what
they've been serving for years on end?

Who better to rate them than paying customers?


Who's better to rate a piano? Piano players and tuners or people that
pay to hear piano players? Some knowledge of the discipline I'd say
matters. And, experienced vs. not so experienced with Celebrity would
matter much. You know, people used to say I was an apologist for
Celebrity and I couldn't be objective. Now, I guess I'm seen as bashing
Celebrity. If the product's quality is up in the last 12 months, fine. I
want it to be up as I like Celebrity's pre-Millennium ships very much.
The overall product has some aspects that appeal very much to my wife
and me. But, feedback from people I've met and corresponded with through
the years reveals concerns with the overall product. And it includes
areas like incidences of chair hogging, ship maintenance,
professionalism of staff, overall cuisine, enforcing and adherence to
ship policies regarding children in pools and casinos and overall
enforcement of disciplining children, adherence and enforcing of dress
codes.

This is the
goal of any company along with becoming a financial success which they
are doing as a premium cruise line.


Financial success does not necessarily equal upholding of quality. They
have set their sites lower. Popularity, I dare say, unfortunately
sometimes equates with mediocrity as mediocre products tend to do better
in the marketplace than quality products, at least in the North American
market. I think a lot of the problems are with customers. I think on the
globe there are customers in other markets that simply demand a higher
standard than North American customers, who seem to go more for
features, size, and how new or trendy something is. I think that's why
American products (that aren't very expensive) often don't offer the
standards of quality of European and Japanese products.


Ben S.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
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