Lengthening, of Enchantment of the Seas!

In article . net,
Benjamin Smith wrote:

Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on Celebrity, and
have found it underwhelming and not the quality experience they were
expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the Celebrity of the early
90s if they would have found cruising as underwhelming. While that
standard may have proven impossible to sustain and be profitable,
Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground and its
reputation as a line is falling.

I think they might have found it underwhelming because they were
expecting more. In my opinion there has always been some undeserved
hype about Celebrity which is not realistic to expect from a mass
market line. I don't see that their reputation is falling. I actually
feel they have improved over the last two years.

--
Charles

In article . net,
Benjamin Smith wrote:

Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on Celebrity, and
have found it underwhelming and not the quality experience they were
expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the Celebrity of the early
90s if they would have found cruising as underwhelming. While that
standard may have proven impossible to sustain and be profitable,
Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground and its
reputation as a line is falling.

I think they might have found it underwhelming because they were
expecting more. In my opinion there has always been some undeserved
hype about Celebrity which is not realistic to expect from a mass
market line. I don't see that their reputation is falling. I actually
feel they have improved over the last two years.

--
Charles

In article . net,
Benjamin Smith wrote:

Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on Celebrity, and
have found it underwhelming and not the quality experience they were
expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the Celebrity of the early
90s if they would have found cruising as underwhelming. While that
standard may have proven impossible to sustain and be profitable,
Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground and its
reputation as a line is falling.

I think they might have found it underwhelming because they were
expecting more. In my opinion there has always been some undeserved
hype about Celebrity which is not realistic to expect from a mass
market line. I don't see that their reputation is falling. I actually
feel they have improved over the last two years.

--
Charles

Tom & Linda wrote:

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
ink.net...

There are a few noticeable things. Some veteran cruisers only
sporadically post here and don't seem to be cruising on the mass market
lines much. Some, recently Howie and Ernie have indicated disinterest in
them and are looking to go elsewhere in the market or to another form of
vacation. Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on
Celebrity, and have found it underwhelming and not the quality
experience they were expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the
Celebrity of the early 90s if they would have found cruising as
underwhelming. While that standard may have proven impossible to sustain
and be profitable, Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling.


Based on what?


Quality of cuisine, quality of service, ship maintenance, three areas
where Celebrity have excelled and made their reputation is lower than
years ago. Veteran Celebrity cruisers rate the line's overall quality
down from when Celebrity used to receive strong marks for food, service,
and ship maintenance.

Ships are sailing full. Many itineraries (like Europe, Alaska and Bermuda)
are commanding high pricing. They are trying new things like the 2 small
ships.


The small ships are interesting.

What's failing? I don't get your comment at all?

I think the Millie class of ships are a major success.


They are relatively new. I don't think they'll have the same following
as the Century class when they reach the age of the Century class and
cruisers are going for the new ships.

People like Jeff C and I love them. And to me, lack of a dance floor that
would otherwise rarely get used dosn't make them failures. And being 90,000
tons doesn't make them failures. I think they are the best ships out there.
Not failures at all.


I don't think they are failures. I don't like their design and lack of
creativity in advancing Celebrity's product. I don't find them to take
chances and be innovative like the Century class. Mason, Babette and
others don't love them. We are on different sides of the camp on our
opinion of the Millie ships.

Ben S.

--Tom

Tom & Linda wrote:

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
ink.net...

There are a few noticeable things. Some veteran cruisers only
sporadically post here and don't seem to be cruising on the mass market
lines much. Some, recently Howie and Ernie have indicated disinterest in
them and are looking to go elsewhere in the market or to another form of
vacation. Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on
Celebrity, and have found it underwhelming and not the quality
experience they were expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the
Celebrity of the early 90s if they would have found cruising as
underwhelming. While that standard may have proven impossible to sustain
and be profitable, Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling.


Based on what?


Quality of cuisine, quality of service, ship maintenance, three areas
where Celebrity have excelled and made their reputation is lower than
years ago. Veteran Celebrity cruisers rate the line's overall quality
down from when Celebrity used to receive strong marks for food, service,
and ship maintenance.

Ships are sailing full. Many itineraries (like Europe, Alaska and Bermuda)
are commanding high pricing. They are trying new things like the 2 small
ships.


The small ships are interesting.

What's failing? I don't get your comment at all?

I think the Millie class of ships are a major success.


They are relatively new. I don't think they'll have the same following
as the Century class when they reach the age of the Century class and
cruisers are going for the new ships.

People like Jeff C and I love them. And to me, lack of a dance floor that
would otherwise rarely get used dosn't make them failures. And being 90,000
tons doesn't make them failures. I think they are the best ships out there.
Not failures at all.


I don't think they are failures. I don't like their design and lack of
creativity in advancing Celebrity's product. I don't find them to take
chances and be innovative like the Century class. Mason, Babette and
others don't love them. We are on different sides of the camp on our
opinion of the Millie ships.

Ben S.

--Tom

Tom & Linda wrote:

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
ink.net...

There are a few noticeable things. Some veteran cruisers only
sporadically post here and don't seem to be cruising on the mass market
lines much. Some, recently Howie and Ernie have indicated disinterest in
them and are looking to go elsewhere in the market or to another form of
vacation. Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on
Celebrity, and have found it underwhelming and not the quality
experience they were expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the
Celebrity of the early 90s if they would have found cruising as
underwhelming. While that standard may have proven impossible to sustain
and be profitable, Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling.


Based on what?


Quality of cuisine, quality of service, ship maintenance, three areas
where Celebrity have excelled and made their reputation is lower than
years ago. Veteran Celebrity cruisers rate the line's overall quality
down from when Celebrity used to receive strong marks for food, service,
and ship maintenance.

Ships are sailing full. Many itineraries (like Europe, Alaska and Bermuda)
are commanding high pricing. They are trying new things like the 2 small
ships.


The small ships are interesting.

What's failing? I don't get your comment at all?

I think the Millie class of ships are a major success.


They are relatively new. I don't think they'll have the same following
as the Century class when they reach the age of the Century class and
cruisers are going for the new ships.

People like Jeff C and I love them. And to me, lack of a dance floor that
would otherwise rarely get used dosn't make them failures. And being 90,000
tons doesn't make them failures. I think they are the best ships out there.
Not failures at all.


I don't think they are failures. I don't like their design and lack of
creativity in advancing Celebrity's product. I don't find them to take
chances and be innovative like the Century class. Mason, Babette and
others don't love them. We are on different sides of the camp on our
opinion of the Millie ships.

Ben S.

--Tom

Ray Goldenberg wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:49:05 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:


Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling


Hi Ben,

Royal Caribbean is extremely happy with Celebrity's performance in the
last 12-months. Financially, it is doing much better and customer
comment scores have risen substantially. Maybe, they are doing more
of the old RCI "begging for excellent". g


Showing they can be popular doesn't speak to the quality of the onboard
experience. The comments of the people who did not find the quality of
to the claims reveal that Celebrity should be marketing themselves as a
value line, which is why they are popular, and not the premium line with
award-winning cuisine they claim to be. If the comment scores have
risen, I doubt they are from veteran Celebrity cruisers. Celebrity has
changed its target market while claiming to market to discerning
customers. That's my problem with both Celebrity and HAL.

Ben S.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Ray Goldenberg wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:49:05 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:


Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling


Hi Ben,

Royal Caribbean is extremely happy with Celebrity's performance in the
last 12-months. Financially, it is doing much better and customer
comment scores have risen substantially. Maybe, they are doing more
of the old RCI "begging for excellent". g


Showing they can be popular doesn't speak to the quality of the onboard
experience. The comments of the people who did not find the quality of
to the claims reveal that Celebrity should be marketing themselves as a
value line, which is why they are popular, and not the premium line with
award-winning cuisine they claim to be. If the comment scores have
risen, I doubt they are from veteran Celebrity cruisers. Celebrity has
changed its target market while claiming to market to discerning
customers. That's my problem with both Celebrity and HAL.

Ben S.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Ray Goldenberg wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:49:05 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:


Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground
and its reputation as a line is falling


Hi Ben,

Royal Caribbean is extremely happy with Celebrity's performance in the
last 12-months. Financially, it is doing much better and customer
comment scores have risen substantially. Maybe, they are doing more
of the old RCI "begging for excellent". g


Showing they can be popular doesn't speak to the quality of the onboard
experience. The comments of the people who did not find the quality of
to the claims reveal that Celebrity should be marketing themselves as a
value line, which is why they are popular, and not the premium line with
award-winning cuisine they claim to be. If the comment scores have
risen, I doubt they are from veteran Celebrity cruisers. Celebrity has
changed its target market while claiming to market to discerning
customers. That's my problem with both Celebrity and HAL.

Ben S.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Charles wrote:

In article . net,
Benjamin Smith wrote:


Some posters have taken their first cruise, a few on Celebrity, and
have found it underwhelming and not the quality experience they were
expecting and I wonder if they had sailed the Celebrity of the early
90s if they would have found cruising as underwhelming. While that
standard may have proven impossible to sustain and be profitable,
Celebrity hasn't established a quality middle ground and its
reputation as a line is falling.


I think they might have found it underwhelming because they were
expecting more.

Exactly. And part of that has to do with their lofty claims and resting
on their laurels while decreasing the quality of their cuisine and using
the specialty restuarants as the way to Celebrity's usual cuisine.


In my opinion there has always been some undeserved
hype about Celebrity which is not realistic to expect from a mass
market line.

OK, but you have to realize that much of the hype was from Celebrity
customers sailing the Meridian and early Zenith and Horizon. By the time
the Century ships were sailing some of the quality already was down.
But, it was still high enough (with some inconsistency) to have
something of a lead in the market and around the mid 90s Celebrity
became more the mass market line than the smaller, more affordable
"taste of luxury" line that Chandris ran. Chandris didn't run a
profitable business, so compromises had to be made, but the level of
cuisine on Celebrity now doesn't impress yet Celebrity claims to offer
the award-winning cuisine of Michel Roux that they offered in the early
90s. So, it is the reputation they built in their early years that they
are resting on yet people who have been with the line from that time
know better.


I don't see that their reputation is falling. I actually
feel they have improved over the last two years.


Carnival's food is rated higher by many familiar with both lines not
only on rtc but on other boards as well and by TAs I know. Celebrity
improved in entertainment, offering amenities in new ships, but not at
all in cuisine or ship maintenance. A few years ago people going on the
Zenith or Horizon would rarely report of the ships being dirty or worn.
These days these comments aren't so unusual. And one of the reasons for
improvement in service in the last 2 years is the freezing of buying new
ships. When the new Millie ships were introduced complaints about
substandard service were common, not unlike the complaints about service
on HAL's Zuiderdam (Vista) ships.

Ben S.