Maintenance while on the ramp and loaded?

HAHAHA if you only knew what could be missing from an RB-211 and have it
still be in limits....you can have 8, yes 8 turbine blades missing from the
primary turbine wheel (total rotating mass approx. 4 lbs). you can pull
chunks of part out of the tail end and it will still be flyable.
So trust me, an ounze or 2 off a fan blade doesnt mean squat.

"mul" wrote in message
...
the removal of any metal from a blade would cause an imbalance on the
fan,,,,
A 4 foot spark trail on a titanium blade suggests the blade was gouged by
the grinder,,
If i observed such a situation, i would insist on getting off the
aircraft,,,
Mul




How many of you have looked out the window on a flight and saw mechanics
working on the plane? This question came about from a story a friend
told
me. He's a 10000hr + airline pilot/engineer. He says one time a fan
blade
on a Rolls Royce RB-211 turbo fan angine on an MD-11 developed a chip.
it
was well within limits and he went out with a pneumatic die grinder to
dress
out the chip. He goes on to say that the looks on the peoples faces in
the
windows were priceless as he sends 4 ft sparks off the fan blade.

HAHAHA if you only knew what could be missing from an RB-211 and have it
still be in limits....you can have 8, yes 8 turbine blades missing from the
primary turbine wheel (total rotating mass approx. 4 lbs). you can pull
chunks of part out of the tail end and it will still be flyable.
So trust me, an ounze or 2 off a fan blade doesnt mean squat.

"mul" wrote in message
...
the removal of any metal from a blade would cause an imbalance on the
fan,,,,
A 4 foot spark trail on a titanium blade suggests the blade was gouged by
the grinder,,
If i observed such a situation, i would insist on getting off the
aircraft,,,
Mul




How many of you have looked out the window on a flight and saw mechanics
working on the plane? This question came about from a story a friend
told
me. He's a 10000hr + airline pilot/engineer. He says one time a fan
blade
on a Rolls Royce RB-211 turbo fan angine on an MD-11 developed a chip.
it
was well within limits and he went out with a pneumatic die grinder to
dress
out the chip. He goes on to say that the looks on the peoples faces in
the
windows were priceless as he sends 4 ft sparks off the fan blade.

sparks mean material is being removed at high speed, not that its being
gouged. There is extensive training in dressing turbine engine blade. A
mechanic doesnt just walk up and hack at it until he/she get bored. I get
the impression you're likening aircraft mechanics to auto mechanics.
Aircraft mechanics are nothing like auto mechanics. Aircraft mechanics must
return the aircraft to 100% airworthy standards. auto mechanics can get
away with a less-then-half-ass job and still put the car on the road.
"mul" wrote in message
...
the removal of any metal from a blade would cause an imbalance on the
fan,,,,
A 4 foot spark trail on a titanium blade suggests the blade was gouged by
the grinder,,
If i observed such a situation, i would insist on getting off the
aircraft,,,
Mul




How many of you have looked out the window on a flight and saw mechanics
working on the plane? This question came about from a story a friend
told
me. He's a 10000hr + airline pilot/engineer. He says one time a fan
blade
on a Rolls Royce RB-211 turbo fan angine on an MD-11 developed a chip.
it
was well within limits and he went out with a pneumatic die grinder to
dress
out the chip. He goes on to say that the looks on the peoples faces in
the
windows were priceless as he sends 4 ft sparks off the fan blade.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:28:43 +0100, "mul"
wrote:

the removal of any metal from a blade would cause an imbalance on the
fan,,,,
A 4 foot spark trail on a titanium blade suggests the blade was gouged by
the grinder,,
If i observed such a situation, i would insist on getting off the
aircraft,,,
Mul


Don't forget to start screaming 'We're all going to die!!!'

You can remove substantial amounts from fan blades to blend out damage
without causing an imbalance problem.

MJ

In article ,
Gunter Herrmann wrote:

steve wrote:
How many of you have looked out the window on a flight and saw mechanics
working on the plane?

3 times so far (2 of them not outside, but in the cockpit):

1 tire change (landing gear under wing hydraulically lifted, tire
changed)
2 navigational computer switches (TWA Tristar in SFO, NW DC10 in AMS)

On my last flight from Philadelphia out to Las Vegas a few months ago on
Delta, the pilot turned the aircraft around about 45 minutes into
the flight because one of the instruments failed. He said they had
other replacements, but he felt more comfortable getting the one
fixed. We went back to PHL and the repair took less than half an
hour and than we were on our way again.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:00:18 -0400, "steve"
wrote:

He was working as a maintenance engineer at the time, before he got his ATP.

Was he working in the flight crew or as a maintenance engineer
(by which I asume you mean he had his A&E license and was
qualified for that aircraft)? Even if you're a certified
mechanic, a memebr of the flight crewe can't start working on the
engine. And you can't go working on an engine without the proper
paperwork, including an est ablished and documented procedure.
and how did he climb up into the engine?

It's a rather dubious story. Sounds like hangar flying.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:00:18 -0400, "steve"
wrote:

He was working as a maintenance engineer at the time, before he got his ATP.

Was he working in the flight crew or as a maintenance engineer
(by which I asume you mean he had his A&E license and was
qualified for that aircraft)? Even if you're a certified
mechanic, a memebr of the flight crewe can't start working on the
engine. And you can't go working on an engine without the proper
paperwork, including an est ablished and documented procedure.
and how did he climb up into the engine?

It's a rather dubious story. Sounds like hangar flying.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 03:30:13 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:28:43 +0100, "mul"
wrote:

the removal of any metal from a blade would cause an imbalance on the
fan,,,,
A 4 foot spark trail on a titanium blade suggests the blade was gouged by
the grinder,,
If i observed such a situation, i would insist on getting off the
aircraft,,,
Mul


Don't forget to start screaming 'We're all going to die!!!'

You can remove substantial amounts from fan blades to blend out damage
without causing an imbalance problem.

But not without paperwork and a procedure.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:27:38 -0600, Hatunen wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:00:18 -0400, "steve"
wrote:

He was working as a maintenance engineer at the time, before he got his ATP.

Was he working in the flight crew or as a maintenance engineer
(by which I asume you mean he had his A&E license and was
qualified for that aircraft)? Even if you're a certified
mechanic, a memebr of the flight crewe can't start working on the
engine. And you can't go working on an engine without the proper
paperwork, including an est ablished and documented procedure.
and how did he climb up into the engine?

It's a rather dubious story. Sounds like hangar flying.



I get the impression you are trying to find flaws in his story where
none may exist.

Flight crew of many large airlines are certified to carry out a
limited range of maintenance tasks. The fact is, they rarely, if ever,
have to do any because technicians are usually available. I'm not
saying that blending fan blades is the case here, but your whitewash
statement is wrong.

Just because somebody does not parade around displaying paperwork for
all to see, including passengers peering out of windows, does not mean
that it does not exist. Would you like to see a screen erected and it
projected on to it for you to see? And how do you think that
technicians change wheels etc? Do you see them walking around showing
everybody documents?

And he got in to the engine like everybody else does. Using a set of
steps normally found in the vicinity of every aircraft on a stand.

MJ

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:10:47 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:27:38 -0600, Hatunen wrote:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:00:18 -0400, "steve"
wrote:

He was working as a maintenance engineer at the time, before he got his ATP.

Was he working in the flight crew or as a maintenance engineer
(by which I asume you mean he had his A&E license and was
qualified for that aircraft)? Even if you're a certified
mechanic, a memebr of the flight crewe can't start working on the
engine. And you can't go working on an engine without the proper
paperwork, including an est ablished and documented procedure.
and how did he climb up into the engine?

It's a rather dubious story. Sounds like hangar flying.



I get the impression you are trying to find flaws in his story where
none may exist.

Flight crew of many large airlines are certified to carry out a
limited range of maintenance tasks.

do you have any citations for a memeber of the flight crew being
able, without documentation, to go out and alter a turbine blade?

The fact is, they rarely, if ever,
have to do any because technicians are usually available. I'm not
saying that blending fan blades is the case here, but your whitewash
statement is wrong.

Whitewash?

Just because somebody does not parade around displaying paperwork for
all to see, including passengers peering out of windows, does not mean
that it does not exist. Would you like to see a screen erected and it
projected on to it for you to see? And how do you think that
technicians change wheels etc? Do you see them walking around showing
everybody documents?

As the story was given there's no indication he did anything but
go out to the engine and start grinding away, although I do
wonder how the pneumatic die grinder came to be at hand.

And he got in to the engine like everybody else does. Using a set of
steps normally found in the vicinity of every aircraft on a stand.

You see, the story is getting more complex. He didn't just go out
and start grinding. He had to perform some sort of measurement of
the damage to the blade and determine whether grinding it would
keep it within specs. He had to find a pneumatic die grinder and
air pump, and he had to move around some steps. Not to mention
that he had to have at hand the documented procedure for dressing
out a turbine blade and have a work order. And didn't soemoen say
the MD11 didn't use Rolls-Royce engines mentioned? (It does
appear some MD11s used RR Trent 650 engines, though).

I wonder how much time this supposedly took.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *