If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:22:13 GMT, "Casey" wrote:
as did they back the taliban against russia The USA did not support the Taliban. He isn't very good with names (or grammar), but he's still right. The USA backed the Mujahideen against the Soviets in their Afghanistan war. The Mujahideen turned into the Taliban. Jimmy Carter took the USA out of the Olympics because of that Soviet war. the taliban were a faction of the mujahadeen. they were supported by pakistan and saudi arabia. the US wasnt involved. And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. irrelevant. 2 fanatical regimes. you play the hand you're dealt. and we were right to oppose the islamist fanatics. look at their actions over the last few years. --------------------------- to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com" and enter 'wf3h' in the field check my blog at: http://www.bobview.blogspot.com/ |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:16:47 -0000, "Ken Catchpole"
wrote: "Mitch Farmer" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:22:13 GMT, "Casey" wrote: In Europe, we have a lot to be greatful for from the USA, not least for helping us rebuild after WWII - a fact that is often forgotten. However, there is a lot of ill-sentiment towards the US because American forgein policy is very often extremely naive so is that of france and germany. look at the view of the folks in the ivory coast towards france today. thousands of ivorians stormed a french military center last week screaming 'kill the french'. it's become a cliche to say US foreign policy is 'naive'. , and because the people are so inward-looking. Good foreign policy doesn't win US voters. Take a look at a US newspaper and you'll struggle to find the half of one page devoted to world news. the US invented this thing called the 'internet'. plenty of international news there. The fact that most Americans have never been outside their state (why would they - America is a big place) also means that Americans (even if they care) simply do not *realise* they are being overly naive. sigh...most of these screeds eventually devolved into a patronizing lecture on how SMART the poster is... And Stalin as well when it was necessary. Go figure. Didn't stop us from ending the Soviet Union's reign of terror, did it? Naturally you IIRC the USSR disbanded itself, and was largely down to Gorbarchev's brave "Perestroika"- and at the very least it was more complicated than "The Americans Won". This is *exactly* the sort of naive and arrogant banner-waving that ****es off the rest of us. guess he doesnt read much. shortly after the time of the soviet union's collapse, the former soviet foreign minister, alexander kozyrev, wrote an article in 'foreign affairs quarterly'. he said it was economic competition from the US that forced the collapse of the USSR. the soviets realized they were falling further and further behind and couldnt catch up. but, we dont read, you see... --------------------------- to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com" and enter 'wf3h' in the field check my blog at: http://www.bobview.blogspot.com/ |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:19:18 -0500, nobody wrote:
Casey wrote: And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Go back and read newspapers during the 1980s (search on the USS Stark) and you will see that the media portrayed Iraq as the USA's friend. Ossama had direct help from the CIA. hhmmmm...really? proof? because in the november, 2001 issue of "GQ" magazine, robert fisk published an interview with bin laden. there, OBL said he never received funding or training from the CIA. The problem started when Russia pulled out of Afghanistan and the USA quietly widthdrew its suppor happy that the enemy of communism had taken over and not thinking about the implications of the taliban. On Sept 11 2001, the USA paid a high cost for this error gee. imagine. helping to liberate a country, then expecting the people who LIVE there would build a better country. go figure. What I can't wait to see is Hussein picking up the video where Rumsfeld shakes his hand to conclude the sale of biological arms and intelligence supply to help Iraq combat Iran during the 1980s. With such a video in court, he could then subpoena Rumsfeld and get the USA to publicly admit that it was the USA who supplied WMD and WMD technologies to Iraq. If Franch television (france) had a copy of that video, I would assume Hussein's lawyer could get such a copy. the french will never show it since they were iraq's primary arms supplier over the last decade. (The USA never found the UN inspectors to be useful because they went against the Bush regime's political goals as per the newamericancentury.org plans. then why did the french veto former arms inpector rolf ekeus to have hans blix's position, which required them to take blix? answer: the french thought blix was 'too aggressive'. seems you know the price of everything and the value of nothing. --------------------------- to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com" and enter 'wf3h' in the field check my blog at: http://www.bobview.blogspot.com/ |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
In alt.politics, you wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:19:18 -0500, nobody wrote: What I can't wait to see is Hussein picking up the video where Rumsfeld shakes his hand to conclude the sale of biological arms and intelligence supply to help Iraq combat Iran during the 1980s. With such a video in court, he could then subpoena Rumsfeld and get the USA to publicly admit that it was the USA who supplied WMD and WMD technologies to Iraq. Since there is no proof that the U.S. supplied WMD to Iraq in the 80's or any other time, how would that be helpful to the mass-murderer Sadam Hussein? Of course, if you think there IS proof then show us, or be shown to either be a liar or a pitiful propaganda dupe. Where is your link to the 'truth'? Go ahead, we'll wait.. You don't need to wait for long. http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm: Even before Iraq released its weapons-program dossier on 7 December 2002, it was said that the report would name the corporations that supplied Iraq with the equipment and other material it needed to develop biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. Soon after the report was released, those suspicions were confirmed. Sources who had seen the report said that it identified suppliers from the US, UK, Germany, France, China, and elsewhere. Now, that part of the report has been leaked. The leftist German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung received portions of the original, uncensored 12,000-page dossier. (The names of the corporations have been blacked out of the version of the report given to the ten non-permanent members of the Security Council.) The paper has printed the list, presented below. Key A = nuclear weapon program B = biological weapon program C = chemical weapon program R = rocket program K = conventional weapons, military logistics, supplies at the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, and building of military plants. USA 1. Honeywell (R, K) 2. Spectra Physics (K) 3. Semetex (R) 4. TI Coating (A, K) 5. Unisys (A, K) 6. Sperry Corp. (R, K) 7. Tektronix (R, A) 8. Rockwell (K) 9. Leybold Vacuum Systems (A) 10. Finnigan-MAT-US (A) 11. Hewlett-Packard (A, R, K) 12. Dupont (A) 13. Eastman Kodak (R) 14. American Type Culture Collection (B) 15. Alcolac International (C) 16. Consarc (A) 17. Carl Zeiss - U.S (K) 18. Cerberus (LTD) (A) 19. Electronic Associates (R) 20. International Computer Systems (A, R, K) 21. Bechtel (K) 22. EZ Logic Data Systems, Inc. (R) 23. Canberra Industries Inc. (A) 24. Axel Electronics Inc. (A) "In addition to these 24 companies home-based in the USA were 50 subsidiaries of foreign enterprises which conducted their arms business with Iraq from within the US. Also designated as suppliers for Iraq's arms programs (A, B, C & R) were the US Departments of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture as well as the Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National Laboratories." Cheers, Jan -- /"\ Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English) \ / http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si" X ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings. / \ I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
Casey wrote: And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Go back and read newspapers during the 1980s (search on the USS Stark) and you will see that the media portrayed Iraq as the USA's friend. Back then Iraq was an economically weak country and not much of a threat. Iran however was a threat to the region. The USA used Iraq to stop Iran. The USA's mistake was not realizing what their own doing would create. Bush just a couple months ago publicly stated it was a bad mistake to use one thug to defeat another. You don't know anything about history. LOL...And most who spew the above crap seem to think the Iraq of the 1980's bears any resemblence to that of the 90's through now. Besides, the mistakes made back then are just that. Mistakes. Some seem to learn from them and correct them and move on. Others such as yourself seem to use old mistakes in a weak attempt to support their views for current day. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
Ken Catchpole wrote: As it was, IIRC Bill Clinton - despite his faults - was instrumental in signing a series of global treaties. Treaties or just simple pandering? Much of what Clinton gave away has come back to haunt us today as a direct result of his pandering ways. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
"ray" wrote in message om... when is someone going to get around to trying george bush When are you going to wake up. George makes you feel and your country "impotent". That's your problem. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
In article , nobody wrote:
.... What I can't wait to see is Hussein picking up the video where Rumsfeld shakes his hand to conclude the sale of biological arms and intelligence supply to help Iraq combat Iran during the 1980s. With such a video in court, he could then subpoena Rumsfeld and get the USA to publicly admit that it was the USA who supplied WMD and WMD technologies to Iraq. If Franch television (france) had a copy of that video, I would assume Hussein's lawyer could get such a copy. So, you admit that Iraq has WMD - and the means to hide them (because we gave it to them). Good. That will be all. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
a plea to all americans
In article ,
Ken Catchpole wrote: The fact (?) that most Americans have never been outside their state (why would they - America is a big place) also means that Americans (even if they care) simply do not *realise* they are being overly naive. Source? Not that I am against the sentiment expressed (in fact, one of the truly neat things about the US is the fact that you *don't* have to cross international borders to see new and different areas - i.e., our "states" are about equivalent to your "countries"), but the statistic looks fishy. As they say, 63% of all statistics are made up. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
American traveller seeks advice | Hans Martens | Africa | 3 | April 4th, 2004 09:10 PM |
Cuba Travel Ban | john | Air travel | 235 | November 29th, 2003 06:05 AM |
New immigration procedures | colin | Air travel | 248 | November 13th, 2003 06:12 PM |