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#21
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:50:36 -0700 Alan Street
wrote: :In article , paul :williams wrote: :€ Do you really regard it abuse when people disagree with your positions? :€ Question : How full generally are transatlantic flights and internal :€ US flights in November ? :€ Reason is my little boy will be one year old and I haven't decided :€ whether its worth paying for a seat for him or whether there'll be :€ plenty of spare seats on the flight. :€ If you must take your infant, pay for the seat. If you don't, and :€ there's :€ no room, you, your son and everyone around you will be miserable. :€ But better, still, is to not take an infant on a long haul. :€ Like I said - how about we keep this argument to the other thread... :€ You asked for feedback and I provided it. Interestingly, everyone, :€ including parents who travel with infants, said the same thing (about :€ buying :€ a seat). And, as everyone has agreed, the reason that this topic is :€ sensitive at all is because of the marked lack of courtesy and :€ consideration :€ on the part of some (but not all) parents. Flying 8 hours with a toddler :€ is :€ as much a courtesy and consideration issue as it is a ticketing issue. :€ This is advice, not abuse. Sorry if it's not palatble to you. :€ hmmm. I was hoping for advice from fellow parents really rather than :€ people who object to children traveliing in the first place. :€ I take your points onboard but the bottom line is my child WILL be :€ travelling... I'm just trying to find the best way to do this. :The best way is to buy a seat for your child. Subject to various values of "best". If one has money falling out of their pockets? Certainly. If one is on a budget, where the money has better uses and thus it is worth suffering some amount of hours of discomfort (and Paul's dirty looks) to save it? No. Each family has to consider their own circumstances. But, all in all, it is just a flying bus. Don't pay much attention to those with their noses in the air. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. |
#22
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In article , PTRAVEL says...
"paul williams" wrote in message . com... "PTravel" wrote in message ... "paul williams" wrote in message om... OK. No abuse please - I think we had enough of that in the other thread. Do you really regard it abuse when people disagree with your positions? Question : How full generally are transatlantic flights and internal US flights in November ? Reason is my little boy will be one year old and I haven't decided whether its worth paying for a seat for him or whether there'll be plenty of spare seats on the flight. If you must take your infant, pay for the seat. If you don't, and there's no room, you, your son and everyone around you will be miserable. But better, still, is to not take an infant on a long haul. Like I said - how about we keep this argument to the other thread... You asked for feedback and I provided it. Interestingly, everyone, including parents who travel with infants, said the same thing (about buying a seat). And, as everyone has agreed, the reason that this topic is sensitive at all is because of the marked lack of courtesy and consideration on the part of some (but not all) parents. Flying 8 hours with a toddler is as much a courtesy and consideration issue as it is a ticketing issue. This is advice, not abuse. Sorry if it's not palatble to you. That you stay off airplanes if normal human noises bother you so much is also advice, not abuse. Your definition of 'courtesy' would prevent orphans from being transported for adoption, dispossess infants of their parents while they are on overseas jobs and assignments, and disabled grandparents from ever seeing their infant grandchildren. Let alone many other situations (and, no, noise is not an assault or similar in intrusiveness to encroachment on seating space, and there's no cosmic perogative for you to cherry-pick which of others' needs and concerns you think 'justify' you hearing their noises). Lambasting each and every parent who comes here with practical questions on infant travel with your irritations and impossible admonishments to never take infants on long airplane trips does not help the situation, and does not put people in a receptive mood to take measures for your comfort even if they might have been initially motivated to do so. Banty |
#23
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In article , Binyamin
Dissen wrote: € € :€ hmmm. I was hoping for advice from fellow parents really rather than € :€ people who object to children traveliing in the first place. € € :€ I take your points onboard but the bottom line is my child WILL be € :€ travelling... I'm just trying to find the best way to do this. € € :The best way is to buy a seat for your child. € € Subject to various values of "best". € € If one has money falling out of their pockets? Certainly. € € If one is on a budget, where the money has better uses and thus it is worth € suffering some amount of hours of discomfort (and Paul's dirty looks) to save € it? No. € € Each family has to consider their own circumstances. € € But, all in all, it is just a flying bus. Would that be a tyical bus in the US or the UK, or a typical non-aircon bus in Thailand or Mexico? Holding a child on your lap for 8 hours isn't a good idea for you, your child or the people around you, and if it's a full flight (likely), then he's going to be doing just that. As for circumstances and funds, there's always limits. Are you implying that regardles of funds, if someone needs to get somewhere, the ends always justifies the means? Are you trying to say that anyone, any time has the "right" to travel somewhere, by hook or by crook if necessary? If he can't afford a ticket for his son, then he shouldn't go, just as he shouldn't go if can't afford a ticket for himself. |
#24
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In article , Binyamin Dissen says...
:The best way is to buy a seat for your child. Subject to various values of "best". If one has money falling out of their pockets? Certainly. If one is on a budget, where the money has better uses and thus it is worth suffering some amount of hours of discomfort (and Paul's dirty looks) to save it? No. Each family has to consider their own circumstances. Few who ride with a lap infant really need the savings. There's a lot of folks out there who think that That Which Is Offered For Free Should Be Taken Or One Is A Fool. Which *is* the foolish idea actually, and well worth counteracting sometimes. IMO it makes a large enough practical difference to make the extra ticket worth while. Unless one really cannot travel at all otherwise, and is scrimping heavily on other accomodations as well. But, all in all, it is just a flying bus. Don't pay much attention to those with their noses in the air. Sure. For every person with a cold stabbing stare for a parent with an infant, there are several who are charmed, sympathetic, and even anxious to help. Which side of human nature deserves the largest place in our experience? Cheers, Banty |
#25
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In article , Binyamin Dissen says...
:The best way is to buy a seat for your child. Subject to various values of "best". If one has money falling out of their pockets? Certainly. If one is on a budget, where the money has better uses and thus it is worth suffering some amount of hours of discomfort (and Paul's dirty looks) to save it? No. Each family has to consider their own circumstances. Few who ride with a lap infant really need the savings. There's a lot of folks out there who think that That Which Is Offered For Free Should Be Taken Or One Is A Fool. Which *is* the foolish idea actually, and well worth counteracting sometimes. IMO it makes a large enough practical difference to make the extra ticket worth while. Unless one really cannot travel at all otherwise, and is scrimping heavily on other accomodations as well. But, all in all, it is just a flying bus. Don't pay much attention to those with their noses in the air. Sure. For every person with a cold stabbing stare for a parent with an infant, there are several who are charmed, sympathetic, and even anxious to help. Which side of human nature deserves the largest place in our experience? Cheers, Banty |
#26
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#27
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#28
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"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , PTRAVEL says... "paul williams" wrote in message .com... "PTravel" wrote in message ... "paul williams" wrote in message om... OK. No abuse please - I think we had enough of that in the other thread. snip lots of vitriole That you stay off airplanes if normal human noises bother you so much is also advice, not abuse. Your definition of 'courtesy' would prevent orphans from being transported for adoption, dispossess infants of their parents while they are on overseas jobs and assignments, and disabled grandparents from ever seeing their infant grandchildren. Let alone many other situations (and, no, noise is not an assault or similar in intrusiveness to encroachment on seating space, and there's no cosmic perogative for you to cherry-pick which of others' needs and concerns you think 'justify' you hearing their noises). Lambasting each and every parent who comes here with practical questions on infant travel with your irritations and impossible admonishments to never take infants on long airplane trips does not help the situation, and does not put people in a receptive mood to take measures for your comfort even if they might have been initially motivated to do so. Banty I love where this argument has led. Pure artistry. And no spelling errors (as far as I can see). A bit unsporting for us spelling nazis though. abacus. |
#29
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"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , PTRAVEL says... "paul williams" wrote in message .com... "PTravel" wrote in message ... "paul williams" wrote in message om... OK. No abuse please - I think we had enough of that in the other thread. snip lots of vitriole That you stay off airplanes if normal human noises bother you so much is also advice, not abuse. Your definition of 'courtesy' would prevent orphans from being transported for adoption, dispossess infants of their parents while they are on overseas jobs and assignments, and disabled grandparents from ever seeing their infant grandchildren. Let alone many other situations (and, no, noise is not an assault or similar in intrusiveness to encroachment on seating space, and there's no cosmic perogative for you to cherry-pick which of others' needs and concerns you think 'justify' you hearing their noises). Lambasting each and every parent who comes here with practical questions on infant travel with your irritations and impossible admonishments to never take infants on long airplane trips does not help the situation, and does not put people in a receptive mood to take measures for your comfort even if they might have been initially motivated to do so. Banty I love where this argument has led. Pure artistry. And no spelling errors (as far as I can see). A bit unsporting for us spelling nazis though. abacus. |
#30
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In article , abacus says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , PTRAVEL says... "paul williams" wrote in message e.com... "PTravel" wrote in message ... "paul williams" wrote in message om... OK. No abuse please - I think we had enough of that in the other thread. snip lots of vitriole That you stay off airplanes if normal human noises bother you so much is also advice, not abuse. Your definition of 'courtesy' would prevent orphans from being transported for adoption, dispossess infants of their parents while they are on overseas jobs and assignments, and disabled grandparents from ever seeing their infant grandchildren. Let alone many other situations (and, no, noise is not an assault or similar in intrusiveness to encroachment on seating space, and there's no cosmic perogative for you to cherry-pick which of others' needs and concerns you think 'justify' you hearing their noises). Lambasting each and every parent who comes here with practical questions on infant travel with your irritations and impossible admonishments to never take infants on long airplane trips does not help the situation, and does not put people in a receptive mood to take measures for your comfort even if they might have been initially motivated to do so. Banty I love where this argument has led. Pure artistry. And no spelling errors (as far as I can see). A bit unsporting for us spelling nazis though. abacus. "Unsporting"??!? How unfair. I had kindly provided an omitted verb in my second paragraph fo your and others' enjoyment. Banty (always the courteous one... :-) |
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