News Alert: United, US Airways to charge $15 for first checked bag

"TMOliver" wrote in message
...

"Larry in AZ" wrote ...

Waiving the right to remain silent, "Rog'"
said:

"Jeff" wrote:
"jessica_smith_nyc" wrote:
I wonder how much they will charge for the can of soda?

$2.00

I think it would have been better if they included the beverage
service in the airfare..........like I assumed it already was.

In olden days, there were many things included in the airfare,
like hot meals... Yes, they actually served something that
approximated real food, and soda was unlimited. You can
expect to pay for many more "optional" things in the future,
like carry-on luggage, a cushion for your chair, the overhead
light, and use of the restroom.

On our last flight, my wife asked for a pillow, and it was all
the attendant could do not to giggle. Maybe they'll make a
come-back as a rental item.

They are available for purchase on some flights already - American (certain
flights only) and Air Canada, for example.

I've been flying on a regular basis since 1970 or so. Over the years,
I've seen a steady decline in levels of service, such as when nice
touches
like the little head rest cloths on the seat backs began to disappear.

At one time, you got a choice of two or three hot meals in coach. Yes,
IN
COACH, you could expect sometimes to be offered a fillet..! With real
plates, napkin and utensils, not plastic ****, and not tiny. A real meal
that tasted damn close to resturaunt food.

Gradually, much of that went away, and your seat space also began to
shrink. Around the summer of 2000 was the beginning of the end for any
kind of decent airline service.

Now, it's non-existant. Thankfully, I'm nearing the end of my
working/flying career. I pity the poor *******s who are just beginning
theirs, or have many years left...


I don't think any would deny that domestic service and amenities in both
cabins has declined...

But I continue to be amazed and appalled at all the "Wise Guys" here who
don't seem to comprehend the well understood economic theory of inflation,
and don't possess even the modest ability to measure its progress in the
last 50 years, as well as having little appreciation for the simple
reality that flying has moved from the province of the affluent or
business travelers to a medium which provides service to all but the
poorest (and some of them). Whether or not that collective decisions was
the wisest course of action is not in question, simply that in a word
beloved of the Papacy, "Fiat".

In 1965, a household income of $25,000 in most of the US put a family into
the ranks of the affluent or nearly so. Today, in much of the country, a
gross income in that range consigns a family to near poverty, marginal
existence or actual inability to afford food, housing and health care
(unless the last is largely provided by employee benefits or government
assistance).

A "Transcon" economy RT fare then was certainly (except for occasional
special deals) not much less and occasionally more than $300. Would you
like to guess the inflation-corrected match for $300. today?

EAch way JFK(IDL-Idlewild)-LAX: $144 in 1965. No restrictions. And no
hidden taxes, security fees, etc. and fully refundable

I recall buying a fully equipped '66 Mustang for a hair under $3,000 (V8,
Air, 4 spd), tax, title and license included. The car, admittedly better,
sells for at least 5 times as much today.

The inevitability of offering service at a "real" adjusted price far below
what was routinely charged in 1965 is that (a) more people will fly, (b)
the quality of service will decline, and (c) when costs (admin, operating,
labor, and most of all, fuel) rise faster than competition allows upward
adjustments, airlines lose money.

Using a 400% inflation factor since 1965, certainly not far off reality,
today's Transco Economy RAT would cost $1200, even if fuel costs had not
risen faster than inflation. Unless you wait until the last minute, it
doesn't (and those white gloves and free meals with which you were once
treated are a significant part of the reduced price).

TOM

In the 1930's, the feds deregulated airline travel. It lasted less than one
year. In 1978, congress deregulated again. They also deregulated trucking,
telephones, etc. The airline business has deteriorated since then to the
point, IMHO, that whatever monetary savings (if any - I'm not sure on an
apples to apples basis the fares are that much lower) has been outweighed by
losses in civility, not to mention maintenance (which appears to be less
today), and a whole bunch of other intangibles. The airlines are run by
bean counters who are reacting to fuel costs by taking away value rather
than finding ways to acknowledge increased costs with increased fares.
Perhaps an intermediate level of service including some amenities for a
higher fare than pure steerage. In the 1970's, they offered "economy" and
"coach" between Hawaii and the mainland - and the higher fare "coach"
service attracted more passengers than economy because it included a meal.
On the mainland, Continental operated a 3-class service (first, coach,
economy) on their "Golden Jets" between Chicago, Houston, Kansas City,
Denver, and Los Angeles (as well as some other intermediate cities). Again,
it proved viable.

Additionally, while in college in the early 1970's, I worked part time as a
ticket agent for a major U.S. domestic airline. I was paid $7 per hour. I
saw an ad for a part time ticket agent for another major U.S. domestic (and
international) carrier for $9 per hour. This is a full 38 years later.

As best I can tell, the supposedly lower fares brought by deregulation have
come at the expense of service, civility, possibly maintenance, and poorly
treated employees, both by their companies and the public in general.

I think the time has come to seriously consider re-regulating this industry
which clearly is incapable of regulating itself.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:53:49 -0500, "Jim Davis"
wrote:



Please pull your head out of you ass if you can. This turned into a
general libel of airlines, some of which deserve it and some don't.

Yeah, right. Whatever you say, John-John.

Others have already demonstrated what a moron you are.

Yeah, right. Whatever you say, John-John.



It isn't what I say you ignorant moron. It's what Continental does as
confirmed by another poster and Continental's own website. Here, go
read for yourself ignoramus

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...c/default.aspx

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:59:54 GMT, Larry in AZ
wrote:

Waiving the right to remain silent, (John Kulp)
said:


A "Transcon" economy RT fare then was certainly (except for occasional
special deals) not much less and occasionally more than $300. Would you
like to guess the inflation-corrected match for $300. today?

Larry thinks it should be the same.

Where did I say that, dope..?

It's implicit in your ridiculous uniformed comments wailing about the
past.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:05:06 GMT, Larry in AZ
wrote:


Now, it's non-existant. Thankfully, I'm nearing the end of my
working/flying career. I pity the poor *******s who are just beginning
theirs, or have many years left...

Funny, you paid 4 or 5 times as much for that as you pay now. Think
that had something to do with it? Would you be willing to pay 4 or 5
times as much now to get it back? I thought not.

Hey moron... Don't put words into my mouth. I never mentioned price, yet
you continue with "Larry wants it for this and Larry wants it for
that..."

Then why are you wailing about them when you won't pay for them
genius?


I'm mostly a business traveler. I could care less what they charge. Let
it be whatever it takes for them to stay in business and deliver at least
"some" level of service.

Right. If you paid for first you would get what you're wailing about
wouldn't you?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:07:54 GMT, Larry in AZ
wrote:

Waiving the right to remain silent, (John Kulp)
said:

Waiving the right to remain silent, (John Kulp)
said:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:56:14 -0400, "Rog'"
wrote:

"Jeff" wrote:
"jessica_smith_nyc" wrote:
I wonder how much they will charge for the can of soda?

$2.00

I think it would have been better if they included the beverage
service in the airfare..........like I assumed it already was.

In olden days, there were many things included in the airfare, like
hot meals... Yes, they actually served something that approximated
real food, and soda was unlimited. You can expect to pay for many
more "optional" things in the future, like carry-on luggage, a cushion
for your chair, the overhead light, and use of the restroom.

Ridiculous. None of these will be charged for and I just traveled on
Continental and got a free meal and unlimited sodas, so you're not
close to the truth.

Methinks he's being facetious...

And methinks you don't--as usual--know what you're talking about
because what I described above happened just last week. Try flying a
decent airline instead of those el crapo ones you fly.

Here's another item for you to stick in your failing memory. I have no
choice what airlines I fly for business. I never make the travel
arrangements. That's done by some anonymous person at some company's
travel desk.

I wish I did, but I don't...

Whatever. You still don't know what you're talking about which is the
point isn't it?

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:16:32 -0500, "Jim Davis"
wrote:


"Larry in AZ" wrote in message
. ..
Waiving the right to remain silent, (John Kulp)
said:

Waiving the right to remain silent, (John Kulp)
said:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:56:14 -0400, "Rog'"
wrote:

"Jeff" wrote:
"jessica_smith_nyc" wrote:
I wonder how much they will charge for the can of soda?

$2.00

I think it would have been better if they included the beverage
service in the airfare..........like I assumed it already was.

In olden days, there were many things included in the airfare, like
hot meals... Yes, they actually served something that approximated
real food, and soda was unlimited. You can expect to pay for many
more "optional" things in the future, like carry-on luggage, a cushion
for your chair, the overhead light, and use of the restroom.

Ridiculous. None of these will be charged for and I just traveled on
Continental and got a free meal and unlimited sodas, so you're not
close to the truth.

Methinks he's being facetious...

And methinks you don't--as usual--know what you're talking about
because what I described above happened just last week. Try flying a
decent airline instead of those el crapo ones you fly.

Here's another item for you to stick in your failing memory. I have no
choice what airlines I fly for business. I never make the travel
arrangements. That's done by some anonymous person at some company's
travel desk.

I wish I did, but I don't...

Methinks you're talking to someone who has no comprehension of business
travel.



Yeah. YOU.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:03:51 -0500, "Jeff" wrote:


On our last flight, my wife asked for a pillow, and it was all
the attendant could do not to giggle. Maybe they'll make a
come-back as a rental item.

They are available for purchase on some flights already - American (certain
flights only) and Air Canada, for example.

So? Bring you own.


In 1965, a household income of $25,000 in most of the US put a family into
the ranks of the affluent or nearly so. Today, in much of the country, a
gross income in that range consigns a family to near poverty, marginal
existence or actual inability to afford food, housing and health care
(unless the last is largely provided by employee benefits or government
assistance).

A "Transcon" economy RT fare then was certainly (except for occasional
special deals) not much less and occasionally more than $300. Would you
like to guess the inflation-corrected match for $300. today?

EAch way JFK(IDL-Idlewild)-LAX: $144 in 1965. No restrictions. And no
hidden taxes, security fees, etc. and fully refundable

Your proof of this? It certainly wasn't the norm then. Who is the
hell is Transcon?


I recall buying a fully equipped '66 Mustang for a hair under $3,000 (V8,
Air, 4 spd), tax, title and license included. The car, admittedly better,
sells for at least 5 times as much today.

The inevitability of offering service at a "real" adjusted price far below
what was routinely charged in 1965 is that (a) more people will fly, (b)
the quality of service will decline, and (c) when costs (admin, operating,
labor, and most of all, fuel) rise faster than competition allows upward
adjustments, airlines lose money.

Using a 400% inflation factor since 1965, certainly not far off reality,
today's Transco Economy RAT would cost $1200, even if fuel costs had not
risen faster than inflation. Unless you wait until the last minute, it
doesn't (and those white gloves and free meals with which you were once
treated are a significant part of the reduced price).

TOM

In the 1930's, the feds deregulated airline travel. It lasted less than one
year. In 1978, congress deregulated again. They also deregulated trucking,
telephones, etc. The airline business has deteriorated since then to the
point, IMHO, that whatever monetary savings (if any - I'm not sure on an
apples to apples basis the fares are that much lower) has been outweighed by
losses in civility, not to mention maintenance (which appears to be less
today), and a whole bunch of other intangibles. The airlines are run by
bean counters who are reacting to fuel costs by taking away value rather
than finding ways to acknowledge increased costs with increased fares.

You mean like Continental, who has constantly been investing in newer,
more fuel efficient aircraft for years and is the US launch customer
for the 787? Who still gives meals?

Perhaps an intermediate level of service including some amenities for a
higher fare than pure steerage. In the 1970's, they offered "economy" and
"coach" between Hawaii and the mainland - and the higher fare "coach"
service attracted more passengers than economy because it included a meal.
On the mainland, Continental operated a 3-class service (first, coach,
economy) on their "Golden Jets" between Chicago, Houston, Kansas City,
Denver, and Los Angeles (as well as some other intermediate cities). Again,
it proved viable.

Additionally, while in college in the early 1970's, I worked part time as a
ticket agent for a major U.S. domestic airline. I was paid $7 per hour. I
saw an ad for a part time ticket agent for another major U.S. domestic (and
international) carrier for $9 per hour. This is a full 38 years later.

What do you think cheapskates refusing to pay adequate fares does if
not this?


As best I can tell, the supposedly lower fares brought by deregulation have
come at the expense of service, civility, possibly maintenance, and poorly
treated employees, both by their companies and the public in general.

Not by all, but in general yes. What other choice did they have when
customers won't pay adequate fares?


I think the time has come to seriously consider re-regulating this industry
which clearly is incapable of regulating itself.

First, they ARE regulated. See FAA. They have all sorts of minimum
requirements they have to make. Bad management is what caused a lot
of this. Just look at United which has NO new fuel efficient aircraft
on order with positions now locked up by others until something like
2013. No wonder they want to merge with someone else so they can
bring them down too.

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:53:49 -0500, "Jim Davis"
wrote:



Please pull your head out of you ass if you can. This turned into a
general libel of airlines, some of which deserve it and some don't.

Yeah, right. Whatever you say, John-John.

Others have already demonstrated what a moron you are.

Yeah, right. Whatever you say, John-John.



It isn't what I say you ignorant moron. It's what Continental does as
confirmed by another poster and Continental's own website. Here, go
read for yourself ignoramus

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...c/default.aspx

Speaking of getting your head out of you're ass. We're talking about US
Air, & United.
Read the subject line John-John. I *know* what CO is doing. I live in
Houston, and am Platinum Elite with CO. Try a reading comprehension
program.

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...

You mean like Continental, who has constantly been investing in newer,
more fuel efficient aircraft for years and is the US launch customer
for the 787? Who still gives meals?

And is dropping 15 destinations and 3000 jobs, cutting down flights to
Newark and Salt Lake City, and retiring 67 planes. Read the papers numb
nuts. They're hurting too.

In message "Jim Davis"
wrote:


"Larry in AZ" wrote in message
. ..

Here's another item for you to stick in your failing memory. I have no
choice what airlines I fly for business. I never make the travel
arrangements. That's done by some anonymous person at some company's
travel desk.

I wish I did, but I don't...

Methinks you're talking to someone who has no comprehension of business
travel.

It all depends on the company, I travel for business several times per
year and can either have the company make arrangements, or I can make
some or all of my arrangements myself.

As long as they pay the amount it would cost to fly me from my home town
and back again on the cheapest direct coach fare, and I am at the
destination during the appropriate times, they don't care if I fly in
coach, rent a private jet or hitchhike.

Same deal with the hotel, as long as I arrive showered, I can sleep in a
tent and pocket the hotel bill or I can rent a penthouse suite, the
company will pay our corporate discount rate at the Holiday Inn Express
down the street.

This works great as it means I can attach a personal trip to either end
of a business trip and only pay the difference in airfare. Sometimes I
upgrade to a nicer room, one time I checked out of the hotel a day
early, pulled an all-nighter in the office the last night and grabbed an
ungodly early flight to vacation the next morning.

However, I work for a reasonably small (~50 employee) tech company, not
a large bureaucratic nightmare. And yes, I consider myself damn lucky,
and no I don't have any allusions that most companies offer this type of
travel flexibility. Shame, that.