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#121
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:42:02 -0500, "TMOliver"
wrote: I was greatly surprised when I looked. I had heard that the IL-2 topped the list, and the various J model Cubs weren't shown, but I didn't realize how many 109s were produced.... Ilyushin IL-2 Sturmovik Strike / Close-Support Aircraft - 36,000 2 Messerschmitt Bf 109 Fighter / Bomber - 35,500 3 Supermarine Spitfire Fighter - 20,000 Then apparently the "J" Cubs - 19,000 ....and from another Wiki page including civil a/c, the really big lines (and evidence that the Cubs, numerous as they were, fall well behind "most successful", a category in which Cessna strikes hard..... Cessna 172 43,000+[1] United States Still in production. Also made under licence in France 1956-present Polikarpov Po-2 40,000+ Soviet Union Most produced biplane 1929-1959 Ilyushin Il-2 36,183 Soviet Union Most produced combat aircraft in history 1941-1945 Messerschmitt Bf 109 35,000 Nazi Germany Most produced fighter. Also made under license in Spain 1937-1945 Cessna 182 25,000+ United States Still in production. Also made under licence in France 1956-present Cessna 150 23,954 United States Also made under licence in France 1959-1977 Supermarine Spitfire 22,351 United Kingdom 1936-1948 Focke-Wulf Fw 190 20,000+ Nazi Germany 1939-1945 Piper J-3 19,073 United States The last numbers are especially impressive, and there are a lot of 172s about.... Good research. I forgot about the warplanes and I should have looked at the 150 and 172 since I have flown both. |
#122
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:59:36 -0500, "TMOliver"
wrote: Sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Cub There were somewhere around 19,000 built versus around 13,000 for the DC3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3 I didn't even think to check your cite on the DC-3 production, Wiki's - 13,000 You forgot a bunch, also carried in Wiki, the more than 10,000 produced as C-47, R4Ds and other associated Marks of Skytrains, Dakotas, etc. Adding up to 23,000 and change, not counting the Ilyushin copy made in the USSR anda handful of Japanese imitations. Considering how many CO-47s/R4Ds ended up in civilian service, it would be hard not to qualify the DC-3 as the most successful commercial a/c ever produced, allowing that so many Cessnas and Pipers were sold for "private, non commercial use. Yup that's probably right. |
#123
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On Oct 17, 5:13 pm, "William Black"
wrote: "me" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 17, 12:13 pm, "William Black" Without massive airport building in the Far East they're going to need one. Well, "they" (the far east) will need "some". If the US government (or someone else) can be convinced their interests lie in building lots of airports in India and China then Boeing will obviously triumph. Or, if the same economic forces take shape in the east as they have in the west, those countries may decide to build those airports themselves. (remember, there's plenty of "make work" kind of aspects to infrastructure development). But, in the free countries the economic development is a sight faster than infrstructure development. In China you can force infrastructure development. Nobody cares if someone pushes a bulldozer through a house. Soldiers just shoot anyomne who objects. Try it in India and you get a bulldozer shaped bonfire. Right up until you have a middle class that wants the economic development that goes with the building of airports, roads, bridges..... In the west they used to go on runs with pitch forks. Don't make the historical mistake of presuming that the future is static. Cultures actually adapt to their own economic development. Selling loads of development aid in China to Congress may be beyond the ability of the US government as well. China will be more than capable of finanicing those projects themselves. But will they want to? Yes. |
#124
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
"me" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 17, 5:13 pm, "William Black" wrote: In China you can force infrastructure development. Nobody cares if someone pushes a bulldozer through a house. Soldiers just shoot anyomne who objects. Try it in India and you get a bulldozer shaped bonfire. Right up until you have a middle class that wants the economic development that goes with the building of airports, roads, bridges..... Nope. They've got that now. The major problem with infrastructure development in India is land encroachment by the poor. The poor move to the cities, build a shack on someone else's land and live there. The land is unsalable for development until the slums are removed. So the land owners go to court, where the poor slum dwellers say 'We're very poor, we're being prosecuted because we're poor, this is unconstitutional, India being defined in the constitution as a Socialist state, plus, we get to vote too, and we elect people who'll defend our interests... And the poor people win... Right up to the supreme court, which can take 20 years. Or the land owners can go to the local mafia, who'll get the squatters off their land, for 50% of the value of the land... This is not a minor problem. Four million people live in Daravi in makeshift huts. Bombay airport expantion is planned for an area called Kalina, guess what's built on the area earmarked for expantion... Daravi and Kalina are long established now. The people there are all hard working people who just happen not to pay any rent, but who do play politics... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#125
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On Oct 18, 8:56 am, "William Black"
wrote: "me" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 17, 5:13 pm, "William Black" wrote: In China you can force infrastructure development. Nobody cares if someone pushes a bulldozer through a house. Soldiers just shoot anyomne who objects. Try it in India and you get a bulldozer shaped bonfire. Right up until you have a middle class that wants the economic development that goes with the building of airports, roads, bridges..... Nope. They've got that now. The major problem with infrastructure development in India is land encroachment by the poor. The poor move to the cities, build a shack on someone else's land and live there. The land is unsalable for development until the slums are removed. So the land owners go to court, where the poor slum dwellers say 'We're very poor, we're being prosecuted because we're poor, this is unconstitutional, India being defined in the constitution as a Socialist state, plus, we get to vote too, and we elect people who'll defend our interests... And the poor people win... Right up to the supreme court, which can take 20 years. Or the land owners can go to the local mafia, who'll get the squatters off their land, for 50% of the value of the land... This is not a minor problem. Four million people live in Daravi in makeshift huts. Bombay airport expantion is planned for an area called Kalina, guess what's built on the area earmarked for expantion... Daravi and Kalina are long established now. The people there are all hard working people who just happen not to pay any rent, but who do play politics... You realize, other than scale, this isn't exactly a new phenomenon in world history. San Fran, London, Chicago, and Tokyo to some extent all have experienced "urban renewal" through natural disasters. They can often be the political basis for wholesale shifts in governments and cultures. The economic forces at work on India are not new. |
#126
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
"me" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 18, 8:56 am, "William Black" wrote: "me" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 17, 5:13 pm, "William Black" wrote: In China you can force infrastructure development. Nobody cares if someone pushes a bulldozer through a house. Soldiers just shoot anyomne who objects. Try it in India and you get a bulldozer shaped bonfire. Right up until you have a middle class that wants the economic development that goes with the building of airports, roads, bridges..... Nope. They've got that now. The major problem with infrastructure development in India is land encroachment by the poor. The poor move to the cities, build a shack on someone else's land and live there. The land is unsalable for development until the slums are removed. So the land owners go to court, where the poor slum dwellers say 'We're very poor, we're being prosecuted because we're poor, this is unconstitutional, India being defined in the constitution as a Socialist state, plus, we get to vote too, and we elect people who'll defend our interests... And the poor people win... Right up to the supreme court, which can take 20 years. Or the land owners can go to the local mafia, who'll get the squatters off their land, for 50% of the value of the land... This is not a minor problem. Four million people live in Daravi in makeshift huts. Bombay airport expantion is planned for an area called Kalina, guess what's built on the area earmarked for expantion... Daravi and Kalina are long established now. The people there are all hard working people who just happen not to pay any rent, but who do play politics... You realize, other than scale, this isn't exactly a new phenomenon in world history. San Fran, London, Chicago, and Tokyo to some extent all have experienced "urban renewal" through natural disasters. They can often be the political basis for wholesale shifts in governments and cultures. The economic forces at work on India are not new. I'm fully aware of that. I'm also fully aware that the squatters are fully aware of their rights and equipped with enough votes and money (four million people can employ as lot of lawyers and politicians for very little money) to make the process of getting them off the land they're on, a process that started last year, last twenty years or so, which brings us back to the A380 and its useful operational lifespan. I'd love to see it happen sooner, my dear wife owns some of the property concerned, but it's going to take a couple of decades... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#127
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On Oct 18, 2:05 pm, "William Black"
wrote: [snip] a process that started last year, last twenty years or so, which brings us back to the A380 and its useful operational lifespan. And to the original point that Airbus may spend the better part of 2 decades investing in and building the "last big plane" because the world market continues to move in the direction of smaller (which is hardly the same as small) aircraft going to more airports. I'd love to see it happen sooner, my dear wife owns some of the property concerned, but it's going to take a couple of decades... But if history is any guide, and Boeing is right, it will happen. |
#128
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
"me" wrote in message ps.com... On Oct 18, 2:05 pm, "William Black" wrote: [snip] a process that started last year, last twenty years or so, which brings us back to the A380 and its useful operational lifespan. And to the original point that Airbus may spend the better part of 2 decades investing in and building the "last big plane" because the world market continues to move in the direction of smaller (which is hardly the same as small) aircraft going to more airports. Almost certainly, the old Soviet Empire has plenty of runways and just needs some decent airport buildings. After the development of the Far East they just won't need them any more. But I think they will need the A380, if only to keep seat prices down... I'd love to see it happen sooner, my dear wife owns some of the property concerned, but it's going to take a couple of decades... But if history is any guide, and Boeing is right, it will happen. In the long term, yes. In the long term, we're all dead... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#129
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
On 18 Oct, 21:49, Doesn't Frequently Mop
wrote: Make credence recognised that on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:56:00 +0100, "William Black" has scripted: "me" wrote in message ups.com... But if history is any guide, and Boeing is right, it will happen. In the long term, yes. In the long term, we're all dead... And our bodies will help fertilize life, hope... and probably a few worms. -- --- DFM -http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- something to do in the meantime.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...scidive117.xml |
#130
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Boeing to delay first delivery of 787
Make credence recognised that on Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:56:00 +0100,
"William Black" has scripted: "me" wrote in message ups.com... But if history is any guide, and Boeing is right, it will happen. In the long term, yes. In the long term, we're all dead... And our bodies will help fertilize life, hope... and probably a few worms. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
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