Australians must stop travel to third world countries.

On 1 Oct 2005 08:06:52 -0700, "jjag80" wrote:

There is no such thing as first and third world countries anymore -
it's either developed or developing. This aside, I just don't
understand where this post came from?? Let people go wherever they want
to, and if they are stupid enough to take drugs with them then let them
suffer the consequences. As for people being falsely arrested and
imprisoned, that happens everywhere.

If you want to get really specific take Schapelle Corby for instance -
she either took the drugs herself or someone in Australian Customs
planted them. Either way this is an Australian problem, not an
Indonesian one. If Corby is innocent then it seriously is a terrible
situation, but it's not Indonesia's fault in any way.

It would be Indonesia's fault if their legal system found an innocent
person guilty.

Chris

Chris Blunt wrote:
On 1 Oct 2005 08:06:52 -0700, "jjag80" wrote:

There is no such thing as first and third world countries anymore -
it's either developed or developing. This aside, I just don't
understand where this post came from?? Let people go wherever they want
to, and if they are stupid enough to take drugs with them then let them
suffer the consequences. As for people being falsely arrested and
imprisoned, that happens everywhere.

If you want to get really specific take Schapelle Corby for instance -
she either took the drugs herself or someone in Australian Customs
planted them. Either way this is an Australian problem, not an
Indonesian one. If Corby is innocent then it seriously is a terrible
situation, but it's not Indonesia's fault in any way.

It would be Indonesia's fault if their legal system found an innocent
person guilty.


Much as it is Australia's fault when innocent people are found guilty
here, happens a lot too... And of course there's the other side of the
coin, how do you know Corby is innocent?

Exactly!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Some people just need to
stop approaching issues with a 'we are better than them' perspective.
There are good and bad aspects of every country. Imagine putting an
innocent Indonesian person accused of something in front of an
Australian jurry that had some of the people contributing to this forum
on it... who's fault would it be then when the innocent Indonesian is
found guilty? Miscarriages of justice happen everywhere.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:54:38 +0800, Hunter1
wrote:

Chris Blunt wrote:
On 1 Oct 2005 08:06:52 -0700, "jjag80" wrote:

There is no such thing as first and third world countries anymore -
it's either developed or developing. This aside, I just don't
understand where this post came from?? Let people go wherever they want
to, and if they are stupid enough to take drugs with them then let them
suffer the consequences. As for people being falsely arrested and
imprisoned, that happens everywhere.

If you want to get really specific take Schapelle Corby for instance -
she either took the drugs herself or someone in Australian Customs
planted them. Either way this is an Australian problem, not an
Indonesian one. If Corby is innocent then it seriously is a terrible
situation, but it's not Indonesia's fault in any way.

It would be Indonesia's fault if their legal system found an innocent
person guilty.


Much as it is Australia's fault when innocent people are found guilty
here, happens a lot too...

Agreed.

And of course there's the other side of the
coin, how do you know Corby is innocent?

I don't. She may be guilty for all I know. Note the use of the word
"if".

Chris

Chris Blunt wrote:
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:54:38 +0800, Hunter1
wrote:
Chris Blunt wrote:

It would be Indonesia's fault if their legal system found an innocent
person guilty.

Much as it is Australia's fault when innocent people are found guilty
here, happens a lot too...

Agreed.

And of course there's the other side of the
coin, how do you know Corby is innocent?

I don't. She may be guilty for all I know. Note the use of the word
"if".


In that case I agree with you completely. Unfortunately it ain't a
perfect world. Innocent people are locked up, both here in Oz and in
Indonesia. It's a fine balance between finding the line which makes sure
that too many guilty parties do not go free, yet too many innocent
people don't go to jail. Move it too far one way you get too many guilty
people going free able to hurt people all over again, move it too far
the other way and too many innocent people will go to jail even if the
guilty will be locked up. Not an easy game to play.

To be honest I'd prefer to see a situation where victimless crimes like
drugs aren't treated the same way as crimes with victims such as
assault, theft, rape, robbery, murder, etc.etc., but unfortunately I
don't see that ever being the case, either here in Oz or in Indonesia.

jjag80 wrote:
Exactly!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Some people just need to
stop approaching issues with a 'we are better than them' perspective.


When the Corby case first came up there was a flood of that in these
groups, it was pretty damn shameful actually, the same people that
accuse people from other countries of bigotry.


There are good and bad aspects of every country. Imagine putting an
innocent Indonesian person accused of something in front of an
Australian jurry that had some of the people contributing to this forum
on it... who's fault would it be then when the innocent Indonesian is
found guilty?


Check out the Chika Honda case, she wasn't Indonesian, she was Japanese,
but other than that it was very similar to the Corby case, only our
courts were even more screwed up, one of their big "arguments" was that
she was Japanese without a camera. Fer ****s sake, what the hell does
that have to do with anything other than showing our own judges were
bigotted stereotyping ******s?


Miscarriages of justice happen everywhere.


They surely do, and always will, until the perfect lie detector is
invented, and I'm not holding my breath on that one.

"Fozzi" wrote in message
...

"smith." wrote in message
...
Australians must stop travel to third world countries.

Look at Bali for example - there is terrorism, child molestation, and
wrongful drug arrests.

I am yet to see any substantive evidence that they have done this, just
because corby is an ausie hardly automatically makes her innocent, her
explanation is actually not the least bit logical, three kilos of dope is
hardly worth the effort for organised crime to risk using a mark, maybe
for other drugs but there just isn't enough profit margin in dope, besides
a sophisticated drug cartel would be smuggling the drugs into australia
where its street value is nearly six times as much as in south east asia,
whereas a lone twit with more ambition than nous *is* likely to take it
the other way. Besides she has already lied at least once when she claimed
never touched the drug, as that came out of her mouth her own body
language quite clearly called her a liar.




People think it is glamourous to go to places like Thailand and Bali -
until they get life imprisonment for a minor crime that they did not
commit.


post substantive evidence of this claim please




Look: it is not fun to go to third world countries. It is not
interesting. You WILL get into trouble. You WILL get
arrested/diseased/kidnapped.


Only if your an extremely type person, in this case either extremely
unlucky or extremely stupid


How about cancelling the ridiculous elephant-back trip around Africa or
Asia and LIMIT TRAVEL TO OECD COUNTRIES. GET IT?


Um the OECD includes many of those same countries, exactly what do you
think the organisation (for) economic co-operation and development exists
for anyway.



I'm sick of dickheads who say that if you don't need 10 vaccinations and
an armed escort, it isn't real travel. That is just plain RETARDED.



On this we agree, but why is writing off any trip that might expand ones
world view any different than them writing off domestic holidays.


So instead visit America and get attacked or shot at there. Dont you idiots
get it, no where including Australia is safe. Port Arthur proved that and
that wasnt our first mass killing or will it e our last. It is simply up to
you as to whether you desire to see the world or whether you want to happily
live in a basement the rest of your life.

btw you are far more likely to die at home in your bed than anywhere else.

neils wrote:

"Fozzi" wrote in message
...

"smith." wrote in message
...
Australians must stop travel to third world countries.

Look at Bali for example - there is terrorism, child molestation, and
wrongful drug arrests.

I am yet to see any substantive evidence that they have done this, just
because corby is an ausie hardly automatically makes her innocent, her
explanation is actually not the least bit logical, three kilos of dope is
hardly worth the effort for organised crime to risk using a mark, maybe
for other drugs but there just isn't enough profit margin in dope, besides
a sophisticated drug cartel would be smuggling the drugs into australia
where its street value is nearly six times as much as in south east asia,
whereas a lone twit with more ambition than nous *is* likely to take it
the other way. Besides she has already lied at least once when she claimed
never touched the drug, as that came out of her mouth her own body
language quite clearly called her a liar.




People think it is glamourous to go to places like Thailand and Bali -
until they get life imprisonment for a minor crime that they did not
commit.


post substantive evidence of this claim please




Look: it is not fun to go to third world countries. It is not
interesting. You WILL get into trouble. You WILL get
arrested/diseased/kidnapped.


Only if your an extremely type person, in this case either extremely
unlucky or extremely stupid


How about cancelling the ridiculous elephant-back trip around Africa or
Asia and LIMIT TRAVEL TO OECD COUNTRIES. GET IT?


Um the OECD includes many of those same countries, exactly what do you
think the organisation (for) economic co-operation and development exists
for anyway.



I'm sick of dickheads who say that if you don't need 10 vaccinations and
an armed escort, it isn't real travel. That is just plain RETARDED.



On this we agree, but why is writing off any trip that might expand ones
world view any different than them writing off domestic holidays.


So instead visit America and get attacked or shot at there. Dont you idiots
get it, no where including Australia is safe. Port Arthur proved that and
that wasnt our first mass killing or will it e our last. It is simply up to
you as to whether you desire to see the world or whether you want to happily
live in a basement the rest of your life.

Don't knock living in a basement.

"Hunter1" wrote in message
...
jjag80 wrote:
Exactly!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Some people just need to
stop approaching issues with a 'we are better than them' perspective.


When the Corby case first came up there was a flood of that in these
groups, it was pretty damn shameful actually, the same people that accuse
people from other countries of bigotry.


There are good and bad aspects of every country. Imagine putting an
innocent Indonesian person accused of something in front of an
Australian jurry that had some of the people contributing to this forum
on it... who's fault would it be then when the innocent Indonesian is
found guilty?


Check out the Chika Honda case,

I wondered how long you'd take to trot the chiko roll out.

ylferiF wrote:
"Hunter1" wrote in message
...

Check out the Chika Honda case,

I wondered how long you'd take to trot the chiko roll out.


All comes back to "truth hurts" really. Some people think they're better
than everyone else, but then there's reality, sort of gets in the way
don't it....