The Meaning of "Novecento" in Italian

On Jun 4, 11:34*pm, Harlan Messinger
wrote:
grammatim wrote:
On Jun 4, 10:25 pm, Harlan Messinger
wrote:
wrote:
Dear Everyone:
What is the original meaning of the word, "novecento", in Italian?
I know that "Novecento" is the original title of a 1976 film directed
by Bernardo Bertolucci, and in the English language, the film is known
as "1900".
My first guess of its original meaning was "new hundred", or "new
century", but The Babel Fish translates it into "The 1900's". Is the
word used only to refer to the 20th century?
Yes, that's a way they refer to the centuries from 1200 to 2000 in
Italian. Il cinquecento = the 16th century, etc.

The cinquecento is the 1500s,

(That's what I said, give or take a year.)

ottocento = 1800s, etc. They match the
number to the hundreds-number, so novecento is the "900s," not "new
hundred."

1900s.-

No, there's no "teen" or "1" in that form of nomenclature.

On Jun 5, 7:53*am, "ALAN HARRISON"
wrote:
"alan" wrote in message

...

Wouldn't the 1500s be the "quindicicento" and the 1800s be the "diciotto"?

Italian doesn't count hundreds above ten in dates as we do. 1215 is
"milleduecentoquindici", 1805 "milleottocentocinque" and so on. In naming
the centuries, Italians just drop the "mille". So, where we say "the
nineteen hundreds", they say "il novecento".

Incidentally, using the alternative "secolo" nomenclature, one of the
strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX". Probably
conatins rather old news. :-)

There was a popular US literary magazine called *The Nineteenth
Century* -- and yes, it did change its name about 109 years ago.

On 2009-06-05, Harlan Messinger wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

AIUI, there's a slight difference in the precise meanings:

"il cinquecento" = 1500--1599
"16th century" = 1501--1600

As we learned when 2000 rolled around, many English-speaking people
think that the 20th century was 1900-1999. So for their Italian
counterparts it's all the same.

Well, I did say "precise"!

Besides, around 2000, we also heard a lot of people explaining the
correct way to count centuries and millennia. I imagine people who
are interested in foreign films and art history are probably not so
resistant to education.


--
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway;
Whatever it is, I'm against it! [Prof. Wagstaff]

Harlan Messinger wrote:

As we learned when 2000 rolled around, many English-speaking people
think that the 20th century was 1900-1999.

One might ask why don't they think that was the *19*th century!
--
António Marques

ALAN HARRISON ha scritto:

Incidentally, using the alternative "secolo" nomenclature, one of the
strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX". Probably
conatins rather old news. :-)

.....Is a newspaper from the 19' century...
A sttrange thing is that in this exact case you read in both way:
'Secolo decimonono' and 'Secolo diciannovesimo'.
'Decimonono' is not used in common language....

Ciao, Piero.

ha scritto:

Good question! I just tried it again. It turned out that "Novecento"---
with upper-case of N---is translated into "The 1900's", but the lower-
case version ("novecento") is translated into "nine hundred".

'Novecento' is a noun ('Il Novecento'), 'novecento' is only a number
(900)...

Ciao, Piero.

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Harlan Messinger wrote:

What is the original meaning of the word, "novecento", in Italian?

I know that "Novecento" is ... film directed known as "1900".

My first guess of its original meaning was "new hundred", or "new

NO. The word "in letter" (as we used to say when writing a cheque)
"nove.cento" means "NINE.hundred" and is the common expression for the
number "in figures" 900.

I inserted a dot (not pronounced nor written) to show clearly the
components. This is just an extemporary convention I devised here.

When referring to year dates (INDIVIDUAL years) we speak aloud all
component numbers. So year 476 AD is "quattro.cento.settanta.sei"
(four.hundred.seventy.six) and year 1492 is
"mille.quattro.cento.novanta.due" (thousand.four.hundred.ninety.two).

We do NOT use (as most other languages but English) to split 14/92 as
fourteen/ninetytwo).

This way year "1900" would be "millenovecento".

However when referring to entire centuries, and in certain contexts
(typically history of art or literature but not only), one can refer to
the entire century starting in a given "00" year in two ways :

e.g. the century starting in 1900 would be "ventesimo secolo" (twentieth
century) and also "novecento". In this case one forgets about "mille".

In practice there is no confusion, because the expression is used only
in particular contexts. One starts with "il Duecento" (1200) because
there is few italian literature before such date, and continues with
Trecento, Quattrocento, Cinquecento, Seicento, Settecento and Ottocento.
An exhibition about lombard painting in XVII century was titled "il
Seicento lombardo".

The abbreviated form is sometimes used in common parliance. If I say
that my grandparents married "nel novecento" I am referring to 1900, and
if I say their first son (the eldest of my uncles) was born "nel
quattro" (in the four") I am referring to 1904 (and this was unambiguous
until 5 years ago).

If I have to quote an historical fact, the date is usually expressed in
full to disambiguate (Charles the Great might be crowned in 800,
"nell'ottocento", and Napoleon in 1800 "nel milleottocento"). This
disambiguation is unnecessary for non-secular years. "ottocentododici"
will refer to 812 AD, never to 1812. Although "nel dodici" in a letter
might refer to 1812, 1912 or 2012 depending on context.


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On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, wrote:

So is "diecicento" for the 2000s?

NO. It is "duemila" (two thousands). Thousands rule over hundreds.

Then what are the names for 1100's and 2100's in Italian?

Millecento and duemilacento respectively.

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On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Piero wrote:

strange newspaper names in which Italy abounds is "Il Secolo XIX".

A newspaper from Genova, yes.

you read in both way: 'Secolo decimonono' and 'Secolo diciannovesimo'.

19 = diciannove ; 19th = diciannov.esimo ; these are the forms used in
common parliance for the cardinal and ordinal number. But the
newspaper is traditionally "decimo.nono" (although the Genoese
abbreviate in "'monono" :-)), lit. tenth/ninth

'Decimonono' is not used in common language....

It is an old form. Sometimes used also with kings and popes. For
instance Pope John XXIII (nowadays almost invariably called "Giovanni
venti.tre.esimo", 23rd) when living was called (e.g. by radio or TV)
"Giovanni vigesimo terzo" (twentieth third ... and "vigesimo" itself was
an old form instead of the more common "ventesimo").

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