Scenic areas in England

William Black wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

I suspect there are plenty of guns still in England. Unless
your population is very, very docile, there would be at
least a few which are quietly held.


Why on earth would you think that?

There's less than one policeman for every 1,000 people in most of the UK
(London has roughly twice the number of cops than the rest of the UK when
counted as a percentage of the population)

With those sort of numbers the word you're looking for isn't 'docile' it's
'reasonably happy'.

Most Americans are quite happy, but we are NOT docile, especially if
someone comes to take our guns away.

On 2009-05-27 14:47:16 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Chris H wrote:
In message gvjogp$sv6$1@qmul, whisky-dave whisky-
writes
"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
whisky-dave wrote:
It also seems strange that more police get shot in the USA than the UK,
thankfully it's quite rare in the UK.


That might be due to the fact that the US has about 6 times the population
of the UK. Don't you think.
Possibley, but in the UK 'only' 1 or 2 a year are killed if that, it's
quite rare.

I think it is quite a few more than that.

So why doesn't American ban these guns ?

In the same way setting speed limits solves nothing. Baning a type of
gun where you don't know where the majority of them are and who
specifically has them will mean that they will still be out in
circulation

the UK bans only worked because the Police knew EXACTLY where ALL of the
guns were

Are you suggesting that overall there's some link between the number of guns
in a society
and the number of people killed by guns ???????

No. I am not. There is a lot more to it than that.

It is still true that most police officers will never fire
their gun except at the pistol range during a normal career.
Seems a waste of time having them then doesn't it.
Why not carry a knife.

For the same reason careful drivers have issuance. You never know what
lunatic is just around the corner. Besides when armed police turn up you
either fight (and usually loose) or talk to them and for most minor
crimes it is stupid to start shooting.

Ie if I get pulled over for speeding shooting my way out is just landing
myself in more trouble.


Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from the
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.

Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAQ417R1BQ.DTL
--
Regards,
Savageduck

On May 27, 3:17*pm, Savageduck wrote:

Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. *Running from the
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.

Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.

Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.

On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17*pm, Savageduck wrote:

Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. *Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.

Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.

Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.

I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.
--
Regards,
Savageduck

On May 27, 5:14*pm, Savageduck wrote:

I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.

Well, it *might* have made him a more effective instructor...

......"And class, when I say "don't do this" I really-and-truly mean
"DON'T ****ING DO THIS!!".....

Back when I was racing sportscars in the 1960s, the CHP used to send
their drivers to SCCA training sessions to learn about high-speed
driving. And as one of the instructors at those sessions, I can say
without hesitation that a few of those boys simply weren't cut out for
the job.

Big. Strong. All-American. Cleft-chinned and flinty-eyed heros every
one. But to a few of them the meaning of the words "trail-brake",
"drift", "power-slide" and "apex" forever remained a mystery.

~Pete

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.

I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.

Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to call
in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does wonders,
and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding plastic
car when the driver loses it.

On 2009-05-28 00:40:28 -0700, Ron Hunter said:

Savageduck wrote:
On 2009-05-27 16:45:52 -0700, Twibil said:

On May 27, 3:17 pm, Savageduck wrote:
Still, people try it several hundred times in a year. Running from t
he
police is usually a way to just make the bill higher, but people seem
to get a thrill out of it, so away they go.
Yup!
Many of them aren't even capable of handling their vehicle as
illustrated by this morning's news from San Jose, but they run anyway.
Can go either way, though. A now-retired policeman friend of mine
wiped out four patrol cars over the course of his career in our town.
(Note the nice double-entendre there.) Totaled two in non-emegency
traffic collisions and two more in high speed pursuits.

The moral to this story is that you should *never* try to stay up with
a Stingray through a 90 MPH sweeper in your Ford four-door sedan, no
matter *how* good you think you are.

I know of a Sgt. in our department who launched an unmarked Chev
Caprice Pursuit conversion in a "Dukes of Hazzard" scenario, flew about
60 feet, and when he landed snapped the chassis in the middle. That car
just folded up! He never lived it down. He ended up as of all things an
Academy instructor.

Easily the best way of outrunning a 'Vette' is to use that radio to
call in help up the road. A nice spike-strip across the road does
wonders, and if you are lucky, you get to see Chevy's famous exploding
plastic car when the driver loses it.

One of the strange things with spike strips, is the amazing ability of
a great variety of vehicles to run considerable distances on rims. The
good thing about the 'vette in this regard, is those rims are not
steel, and they wear down to the disc rotors pretty quickly. Also very
few of those hit with spike strips actually "lose" it, they sort of
grind to a halt, unless they are truly crazy.

The other thing to consider is, gas in a hot running 8 lunger is a
finite commodity.
--
Regards,
Savageduck

In message , Jack Campin
- bogus address writes
I suspect there are plenty of guns still in England. Unless
your population is very, very docile, there would be at least
a few which are quietly held.

Held since when? WW1? Where on earth would they have come from?

Very many sources. WW2, Korea, Falklands, NI, Iraq etc and many
civilian sources.

None legally held BUT estimates are that there are a vast number of
illegal guns.

For a rather small value of "vast".

Ask the UK border force. They stop thousands of guns a year and estimate
it is only the tip of the iceberg.

Ask the police. Every time there is an amnesty they get thousands of
guns handed in and the majority are modern guns. Not old gund from 30
years ago.

(UK residents only). Compare the number of times you've been around
illegal drugs with the number of times you've been in the presence of
an illegal firearm.

Almost a 1-1 correlation.

The deterrent sentences are of the same order,
so the incentive for concealment is about the same, and guns are a
lot harder to conceal.

Not really.

I suppose I've been in the same room as drugs
with a street value in five or six figures over my lifetime, and never
once seen an illegal firearm or met anyone in person who claimed to
own one.

That does not mean they were not there. I never knew any drugs dealers
above the street corner variety who were not armed.

The majority held by criminals but probably a small number by "law
abiding citizens" who have one in the attic for when the world ends.

Buying one has never been easy or common in the UK, regardless of
what the law has said at various times.

No true...before the 1968 FAC law many held guns

Mostly, people have seen
them as a waste of money which would have been better spent on a
sewing machine, a better stove, drink, tickets for Marie Lloyd at
the music hall or a new Wii accessory.

This was true of many. However many also had guns

Almost all people in the UK think guns are boring and their owners
are creepy.

Most certainly not true. It depends on the circles you move in.

(Americans who rabbit on about them on Usenet reinforce
that perception with every message they post).

Now that is true but they have a very different gun culture

Literature gives you a picture of how prevalent they've been over
time. How many characters in Dickens, Hardy or D.H. Lawrence owned
them?

All three were romantic writers and not based in reality

You will quite frequently find characters in American fiction
owning a gun despite being neither a cop, a neo-Nazi or a drug dealer.

This highlights the difference in culture not an empirical proof on the
level of gun ownership

That is just about never the case in British writing; an author who
tried it would come across as an American who'd never been here (as
you do).

Was never the case... Things have changed over the last 20 years.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In message , Ron Hunter
writes
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I suspect there are plenty of guns still in England. Unless your
population is very, very docile, there would be at least a few which
are quietly held.

Yes, I wonder how many of those previously legal guns were reported
stolen a few days before the deadline for turning them in....

Apparently very few. It was too bigger risk as the police would not
believe you and doing that sort of thing carries a far greater risk.

Besides there were more than enough illegal guns floating around anyway.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

I suspect there are plenty of guns still in England.
Unless
your population is very, very docile, there would be at
least
a few which are quietly held.

Held since when? WW1? Where on earth would they have come
from?

CY: Same places that grow and sell street drugs.

None legally held BUT estimates are that there are a vast
number of
illegal guns.

For a rather small value of "vast".

CY: All in the perspective.

(UK residents only). Compare the number of times you've
been around
illegal drugs with the number of times you've been in the
presence of
an illegal firearm. The deterrent sentences are of the same
order,
so the incentive for concealment is about the same, and guns
are a
lot harder to conceal. I suppose I've been in the same room
as drugs
with a street value in five or six figures over my lifetime,
and never
once seen an illegal firearm or met anyone in person who
claimed to
own one.

CY: That's interesting. I'd have to think on how many
illegal guns I've been aware. I guess I did see a sawed off
shogtun at a guy's house, one time. I know of several of my
law abiding friends who own a gun of some sort.

The majority held by criminals but probably a small
number by "law
abiding citizens" who have one in the attic for when the
world ends.

Buying one has never been easy or common in the UK,
regardless of
what the law has said at various times. Mostly, people have
seen
them as a waste of money which would have been better spent
on a
sewing machine, a better stove, drink, tickets for Marie
Lloyd at
the music hall or a new Wii accessory.

CY: Well, that's one way to look at it.

Almost all people in the UK think guns are boring and their
owners
are creepy. (Americans who rabbit on about them on Usenet
reinforce
that perception with every message they post).

CY: I havn't asked enough Americans about the UK view on
guns. In the US, there are a variety of types of gun owners,
and so their posting attitudes and styles will vary.

Literature gives you a picture of how prevalent they've been
over
time. How many characters in Dickens, Hardy or D.H.
Lawrence owned
them?

CY: Can't say as I remember reading any of those authors.

You will quite frequently find characters in American
fiction
owning a gun despite being neither a cop, a neo-Nazi or a
drug dealer.
That is just about never the case in British writing; an
author who
tried it would come across as an American who'd never been
here (as
you do).

CY: Yes, that sounds reasonable. And with many types of
American fiction, someone writing a story with no guns would
really sound strange to people in the USA.


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