A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travel Regions » Asia
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA AJNAYA ORDER (2004) - Part 1



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 24th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Codey Ramone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA AJNAYA ORDER (2004) - Part 1

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965


PART 1





Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:


Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

Introduction:

Let me say from the start of my essay that I am not a devotee-scholar
and I wrote this essay because of my interest in His Divine Grace A C
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada a spiritual-guru, who founded in the US
the Hare Krishna Movement and made it into a household name.

Actually this essay carries on from a series of essays that to put it
mildly were revolutionary. These were from Gio Vani, Japa Meditation
and Knowledge Management 108:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev

Process:

I began to keep for my ready reference the famous May 28 1977
Conversation in the Hare Krishna Movement that both Japa Mediation
(2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) essays were about. Based on
these essays I tried to delve more into the Conversation, till I picked
a sentence that I found exciting and challenging similar to deciphering
stimulus that I liked in the above three essays. Thus there was more
deciphering work that needed doing and so this essay is a continuation
from these revolutionary (mild word) essays. In fact, I made the
eye-opening words that I found special, "amongst our disciples," of
Srila Prabhupada, part of the title of this essay. These words
represent the Universal Guru Form. Obviously Srila Prabhupada is not
saying that his disciples are also belonging also to some other of his
disciples. It thus suggests that "our disciples" is being told by Srila
Prabhupada because of the Founder's presence in all the columns of
fiveization or the Amara Ajnaya Order, see Japa Meditation (2002) and
Knowledge Management 108 (2003) and that is also hence the Universal
Guru Form.

Presentation:

I have presented the essay in an informal style. This is not to say
that I want to short-change the work or that academic styles do not
have merit. Quite the reverse, I want to make my points felt clearly
and succinctly to the reader.

Finding 1:

5 Alive Brand for Prabhupada, 2nd & 3rd Alive Brand for disciples

I wanted to show the way I have arrived at some of my findings relating
to The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation, so I have copied the
Conversation below and inside square parenthesis in blue font italics,
I have inserted my findings where I thought appropriate. Also I have
bolded some words to tell or indicate their importance per se or in the
findings within the square parenthesis. In case you want to look at
this Conversation without the comments and findings, please go to the
Appendices section. Please note that the findings here need to be seen
with Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management
(2003) essays.



Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question
concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when
you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second
initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled
up [this signals establishing of the 'fixed' disciplic succession
with Srila Prabhupada being the sole permanent eternal initiating
spiritual master till humanity remains humanity as opposed to
'variable' disciplic succession] I shall recommend some of you to
act as officiating acarya(s).

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes.

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the
initiation and the...

Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should
not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana,
(he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order.

Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who

Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're
officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa to,
whose disciple are they?

Prabhupada: They are his disciple.

Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple.

Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That's clear.

Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer...

Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru.
That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just
see).

Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no
translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving
it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in the
future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that
the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would
the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally
[Keywords are personal, reconfirmation of context and not impersonal at
all] see these translations? [Keywords have the 3 'see' words and
singular 'you' and also "personally see" context is not impersonal
but personal context]

Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly. [the " you" of Japa
Meditation (2002), see essay chart/s]

Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the
works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If
there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if
it's properly done, the BBT could publish it. [Srila Prabhupada's
books are bona fide Vedic reference-Srila Prabhupada understands like
this in his answer - any other vedic books are not bona fide, BBT is
Prabhupada's and bona fide]

Prabhupada: That we [this is 'team-personal' not impersonal] are
doing [thus this keep doing], just like Hindi. We ['team-personal'
not impersonal] are doing other languages. [Thus this keep doing,
Nothing / what is new] If it is properly translated, it can be...
[Nothing / what is new. Use of "we" and also "our" (see later)
signalling ' team.' Automatically 'team' also signal the
Panca-Tattva, but note, Srila Prabhupada is not talking to himself in a
5-in-1 way excluding disciples from "we" and "our." Srila
Prabhupada's answer is personal to his books not someone else books
and is based on present. The communication of Srila Prabhupada is
Internal-External (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) basis with (a) 5
in 1 Srila Prabhupada and also (b) 1 in 5 Srila Prabhupada. i.e. acinta
beda beda tattva - "inconceivably simultaneously one and different"
philosophy - also this answer is for the futu "we are doing" thus
Srila Prabhupada is present in spiritual state permanently when not
present physical state and the "doing" is because of Srila Prabhupada
is present permanently thus if Srila Prabhupada is removed by coup and
considered not present permanently then BBT and ISKCON are destroyed as
they have almost]

Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated
yourself.

[The choice here if Srila Prabhupada not personally see - How to
insure in the future? Either: No Change to books/initiation system or
there has to told the Concept/Test that has to match - with answer of
No Change to books/initiation system being the conclusion in the May 28
1977 Conversation ]

Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation,
[signals also to "my purports," "my disciple[s]" - and is
personalized] another person translating into Hindi or other languages,
we ['team-personal' not impersonal] are publishing. [Nothings /
what is new] Similarly, if somebody [body based language] has
translated properly, it can be published. [Nothings / What's ne] But
amongst our ['team-personal' not impersonal] disciples, [IMPORTANT:
UNDERLINED WORDS signals UNIVERSAL GURU FORM (SEE FINDINGS), similar to
Krishna showing in the Bhagavad-gita His Universal Form to Arjuna
however are in the time/place/circumstance a Guru-Tattva level and
implemented within the Conversation in a coded way for safety so that
the records were not destroyed by the coup disciples. The Amara Ajnaya
Verse Order is Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) and so to
speak 'Universalization' (also symbolize the way to transcend the
material realm) of Srila Prabhupada in this
Fiveization/Presence/Association in each of 5 columns (Japa Meditation,
2002) - instead of localization into only "I" OR "MY" columns - thus
Srila Prabhupada is saying "OUR"/"WE" because 5 entities are present.
Also this represents the order of total Parampara was carried in a
secure way for 'FIVEIZATION' (Thus there is use of words "ONE" and
"INSTRUMENT" in the Conversation). The ownership and control of Amara
Ajanya Order/ISKCON-BBT-Ritvik disciples--Other disciples are part of
the AMARA AJNAYA INSTRUMENT, THE DIVINE PRABHUPADA SONG and the
responsibility of disciples is to keep the instrument functioning. This
also represents the total control and domination via Yoga-Maya, an
alternative to the hellish Maya style via secret material fraternity
informally and formally. "Our disciples" and later "Our translations"
and extrapolately 'Our Purports' - this is a clue - the 5 in 1
and also 5 way for Srila Prabhupada though his disciples, future
disciples and living humanity and other living entities are localized
into particular columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge
Management 108, 2003). Obviously some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples
in this conversation also (via coup) had/have turned into initiating
spiritual masters, translators or purporters was totally evil. This
simultaneous oneness and difference in the columns (see Japa
Meditation, 2002) ground-breaking because internal and
internal-external and also for future the spiritual management view for
ISKCON and BBT] I don't think there are many who can translate
properly. [Words extrapolated or those that are not e.g. "my
translation," " my disciple," 'my purports' are obviously personal
to Srila Prabhupada and not impersonal concept, especially because of
words "we" and "our"]

Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not
perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the BBT.
[Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and the adjective of
"highest" shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] The name BBT
means the highest standard right now in the world. [Nothing other than
Srila Prabhupada then and disciple starts using "we" and Srila
Prabhupada likes answer. There is also a risk that evil disciple/s can
overstep the mark by trespassing into 'no go' columns (See Japa
Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Thus the clash of
5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples on Srila
Prabhupada's FIELD of UNIVERSAL GURU FORM, see Bhagavad-gita and
Kauaravas army discussions on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra. Then the
concept of 'world'used by the disciple with Srila Prabhupada saying
"'mouth" signal the catholic symbol, possibly signalling the world
conspiracy with the disciple's name having the word Ram - in November
1977, Srila Prabhupada tells of a clip from the Rama/Ravana story of
war and battle between good and evil. Also, the same disciple's name
has sound of war, Var - perhaps symbolizing the Internal-External
unified war against Maya/Illusion. From this part of the Conversation
starts the importance of Srila Prabhupada's books and also
recordings, the no change to this and hence parampara sections in Srila
Prabhupada's books as otherwise they would change into non-Srila
Prabhupada books and recordings]

Prabhupada: That is good answer. [Best decision of the future do not
publish anything not Srila Prabhupada's own]

Kirtanananda: Therefore [number 4], Srila Prabhupada, we think that you
cannot leave us very soon. [Disciple starts using "we," 5 IN 1 Srila
Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada's disciples,, "Very Soon"has
the adjective of 'very' shows hate of disciple towards Srila
Prabhupada]

Prabhupada: I [personal not impersonal] don't want. But if I [personal
not impersonal] am obliged, what can I [personal not impersonal] do?
[There are 3 "I" here representing the, Vishnu-Tattva, Panca-Tattva
symbols/responsibilities - 2nd I is risk factor (books) and if this
goes 3rd I (ritvik) is also risked]

Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want.

Prabhupada: A realized soul [personal not impersonal], must be. [This
is the 1st "must be"- relates to Srila Prabhupada with the 1st being
"Our translations must be documents." Otherwise, simply by imitating
A-B-C-D will not help. [Not imitate 5 in 1 or 5 that is against the
Amara Ajnaya Instrument / thus Srila Prabhupada signals the status of
Srila Prabhupada being the prophesized a self-effulgent initiating guru
permamnt and eternal and tells the disciples not to imitate this
position via books, recordings or initiating diksa gurus] My [personal
not impersonal] purports are liked by people because it is presented as
practical experience. [personalism/also signals perhaps Gaudiya Math
'practical' experiences after disappearance of 5 in 1 SBBT in the
disunity and divide of property, literature and disciples amongst the
senior disciples with preaching decrease due to lack of 5 concept
internal, external and internal-external and Srila Prabhupada is the
self-effulgent prophesized thus 5 concept - internal, external and
internal-external] (aside It is within the mouth. [importance of
practical experience - Srila Prabhupada's mass market way versus
'hindu, ' preplanned versus random/ "liked" words sounds like
'licked' signalling catholic and "mouth" link. Also it represents
the individual or one initiating spiritual master for the universe that
is predicted not group style that is foolish in comparison to the way
that is united-unconfusedl-individual initiating guru-one logistics
supply chain line leading to peoples mouths. Shows 'objective' for
Srila Prabhupada precisely associating with Krishna's Fiveization
Order of Amara Ajnaya to make the 'purpose' to work. The link with
"mouth" also suggests poisoning of Srila Prabhupada via "mouth" with
the suspect of christian symbol of cross being involved triggered by
the 'horizontal' and 'vertical' concepts in Japa Meditation
(2002), choice of what type order Amara Ajnaya Order is, horizontal or
vertical and conclusion is horizontal and the conflict in the Hare
Krishna Movement because of this. "Realized soul" represents practical
experience that is represented by a thing that goes into/must enter a
"mouth" that is represented by an instrument (Krishna's Amara Ajnaya
Order - Internal-External (Knowledge Management 108, 2003)
concretized into an instrument and personalized). The famous instrument
of Krishna is His personal transcendental flute-thus the flute
represents experience-this instrument is passed to others to play
too-thus use of these words in quotations and inverted commas to
suggest extrapolation: 'acts'-'acting'
acharya/ritvik/"officiating acharya"-"regular guru"-"not
ordinary"-"documents"- are used in the Conversation with the bogus
instrument not required-one flute that represents bona fide.]

Bhavananda: I'm sorry.

Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [5 in 1 and 5], (laughter) that it
must enter into the mouth. [Ideas about the "mouth" can be stormed here
--"I" and "My Disciple" are the emanators of the books and recording,
ISKCON is the "mouth" for BBT publishing unit-ISKCON temples are
inputted with the output of BBT, any other output from others is not
emanating from Srila Prabhupada and thus is to kept away due to it
being bogus. The "mouth" symbolises the centrality of for example: the
(a) broadcaster, (b) television and (c) viewer with the 'objective'
for precision matching docking connection to make the 'purpose' to
work. Krishna's Pastimes record a failed attempt to poison of Krishna
by Putana, the female demon, that resulted in Krishna killing Putana.
Similarly, there was a failed attempt to kill Srila Prabhupada by some
of the coup disciples with most of them falling down - the
tamas/ignorant nature of coup disciples triggered them to poison Srila
Prabhupada. The word "mouth" also signals: catholic / christian
opposition to Krishna Consciousness, "my translation(disciple,
purports)," dentistry/den-tistry with bias by dogmatic secretive
professional types / opposition by material secret fraternity, Srila
Prabhupada's medication to solve mankind's problems , importance of
logistics-supply chain in Krishna Consciousness, books and recordings,
instrument of flute, instrument versus internet viruses, Universes that
there when Krishna opens his "mouth" and also shown to Advaita Acarya,
the 3rd Column in the Panca-Tattva table (see Japa Meditation, 2002) by
Lord Caitanya (see Appendix). Thus the "mouth" is quite important and
this reflects the powerful determination of Srila Prabhupada to spread
Krishna Consciousness] Then it will act. [signal of officiating or
acting acharyas responsible for logistics supply chain to peoples
mouths and also Srila Prabhupada's words matching precisely
Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya] That kind of instrument
not required. [not imitate that is a A-B-C-D instrument, Not imitate 5
in 1or trespass the columns of Amara Ajnaya Instrument, Not imitate
Srila Prabhupada's realization, not use bad instruments, new non-SP /
non-5 in 1 or non-fiveization or non-universal guru form books not
required in BBT or ISKCON) It must remain three miles off. Our
[team-personal not impersonal] translation [purports, disciples,
Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order] must be documents. ["be" - the seed
word to "become/s" shows importance of the books and recordings of
Srila Prabhupada for him to "be" functioning as the sole permanent
eternal diksha guru. This is the 2nd "must be" relates to
books/recordings with the 1st being "A realized soul, must be."
Documents= suggest the word doctor, a doctor represents 3 university
degrees - called doctor with there being 3 letters for the GBC - the
Governing Body Commission of ISKCON or Hare Krishna Movement that is
there to make sure documents not myths. Even the coup disciples motive
to poison Srila Prabhupada also became documented in this conversation
due to Yoga Maya] They are not ordinary [Not non-fiveization
translations]... One [Set of books or 1 person via the set of books]
cannot become [5 in 1 Gaudiya Vaisnava Diksha Guru or new set of
perfect books] unless one [Self] is very realized. ['very' is GOD
HIMSELF - the next avatar of Krishna is Kalki avatar that appears
later in the Age of quarrel and hypocracy or Kali] It is not A-B-C-D
translation. [not a bogus Ravana demon (opposite to Lord Rama) 5 in 1]

Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship.

Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One
[Self] can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [The "Very" and
the "Grand"], he (See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1) can become guru. Or
one [Self] who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he
[See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1] can become guru. And therefore I shall
select some of you. (hums) - [5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1
Srila Prabhupada disciples that have trespassed the columns of Srila
Prabhupada's Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order instead of being
subordinate to it (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management
108, 2003) It appears that in the May 28 1977 Conversation Srila
Prabhupada talking in 3 ways: Internal, External and Internal-External.
(1) - Internal through use of words such as "our" and "we" and "our
translations" and "our disciples." (2) - External through use of words
of "One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he (Japa
Mediation He#1) can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's
order, the same parampara, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru."
(3) - Internal-Externally through use of words "A B C D" , "liked by
people", 'enter mouth then it will act' "documents" that tell the
magnificence of SP books/translations/purports, extrapolated into
initiation, disciples and purports, not "A B C D." On one hand Srila
Prabhupada is incredibly defending his 5 IN 1 and his initiating/diksa
guru service and product legacy to survive permanently in the future in
comparison to any others except Krishna personally and on the other
hand he is wanting his disciples to become gurus. These two views need
compromising and the question and subsequent answer to what sort of
gurus, Srila Prabupada wants his disciples to function is siksa or
instructing gurus. This agrees with all three previous studies: Gio
Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108
(2003).]

Satsvarupa: That's all the questions [Should the BBT publish new books
not translated by Srila Prabhupada and hence Srila Prabhupada books
overwritten? No - ".....One cannot become unless one is very
realized....." Srila Prabhupada May 28 1977 "very realized" refers to
Krishna because May 28 1977 is coded, see Japa Meditation 2002 and
Knowledge Management 2003]

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada








...........





Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

  #2  
Old February 24th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Codey Ramone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 2

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

Finding 2:

The Universal Guru Form

We can see above in Finding 1, that Srila Prabhupada is 5 Alive in the
Amara Ajnaya Order, Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) with
the 5 Alive Features in the 5 Columns (Japa Meditation, 2002) signalled
in May 28 1977 Conversation and is deciphered to Universal Guru Form
and can be compared to an extent due to some commonality, with the
Universal Form of Krishna seen in Srila Prabhupada's original
Bhagavad-gita as It Is, Chapter 11. The 'commonality' is that both
the Universal Form of Krishna and Universal Guru Form of Prabhupada
represent the different 'Entities' in their variety being present
in 'Orderly Way' that are linked to the 'Original Source' or
'Personality' either personally or in some other relationship with
the individuality of Krishna and Prabhupada not being trespassed.

Universal Forms & Krishna

Please note that the author is not a devotee scholar and so this part
is condensed, simplified and extrapolated to the points that are
connected to this study. Thus to commence with Universal Forms &
Krishna, relates to the Original Personality of Godhead, Krishna, Who
also appears as Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva. Points:

1. Universal Form/s is in 'sub-set' in Krishna Pastimes (the
'eternal set')
- there to symbolize that Krishna is God Himself. Universal Form
(UF) is a composite image of His Universal actions. Also it is an
identity test for any rascal that says they are God. The Krishna
Pastimes (KP) are happening eternally from time immemorial in different
planet and universes.

KP={UF, KP1, 2, 3 etc}
2. Krishna Pastimes are in 'sub-set' of Universal Form (the
'eternal set')
- Each component of Krishna Pastimes are and can be/were
witnessed in the Universal Form because it is 'Universal.' The
Universal Form represents the eternal with past, present and future of
everything being presented there.

UF= {KP1, 2, 3, Other UF things1, 2, 3 etc}
3. The acinta beda beda tattva principle is invoked
- in relation to the Universal Form and Krishna Pastimes due to
the inverse mirror image between (1) and (2) above, that they cancel
each other out like an algebraic equation. By this it is meant that the
concept of 'sub-set' and 'eternal-set' cancel each other and
you are left with non-remainders of Krishna Pastimes and Universal Form
components because outside (eternal-set) and inside (sub-set) for KP or
UF does not make any difference to them for functioning with the source
of KP or UF being the same, Krishna.

KP1={UF, KP Part 1, 2, 3 etc}

UF= {KP, KP2, KP3, Other UF things}

"Krishna Caitanya is Krsna. That was observed by Sarvabhauma
Bhattacarya. He composed one hundred verses praising the glories of
Lord Caitanya, but because Caitanya Mahaprabhu was playing the part of
a devotee, He thrown away the slokas, because "This is not for Me."
That was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's humbleness. But the devotees know that
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Sri-krsna-caitanya
radha-krsna nahe anya. Radha-Krsna combination of Sri Caitanya... Sri
Caitanya Mahaprabhu means Radha and Krsna combined..........God is one.
Eka-brahma dvitiya nasti. There cannot be many Gods. So when God,
Krsna, wants to enjoy His pleasure potency, that is Radharani. So He
manifests Himself, manifests His energy... His energy and He, there is
no difference. Sakti-saktimator abhedah. The sastra says sakti and the
saktimat--means one who possesses the sakti (sakti means power,
potency)--they are equal. There is no difference. Just like the sun.
Sun is the powerful, and the sunshine is the power. So there is heat in
the sun and there is heat also in the sunshine. There is light in the
sun and there is light in the sunshine also. Therefore qualitatively
they are one so far heat and light is concerned. But the temperature of
the sun and the temperature of the sunshine may be different. May be
not. Actually there is difference. This is the basic principle of all
philosophies. Acintya-bhedabheda. Acintya means inconceivable, bheda
means different, and abheda means nondifferent. The whole situation...
The one is there, God, but He has expanded Himself in different way.
Eko bahu syam."

(750325CC.MAY Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.1 Mayapur,
March 25, 1975 His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)


4. Types of Universal Guru Form
- It is said that the Master is Krishna and the Servant is
Guru.

"My Dear Isana and Vibhavati,

Please accept my blessings.

Lately there has been some misunderstanding amongst our devotees about
our Krishna Consciousness philosophy. Particularly there has been some
confusion about the relationship between the Spiritual Master and
Krishna. The Vedas say that there is a Master Krishna. This Servant
Krishna is the Spiritual Master and this is the conclusion. The
Spiritual Master is the Mercy Representative of the Supreme Lord and as
such He is given honor as good as Krishna, but He is never identical
with Krishna. Perhaps you know the picture of Madhvacarya, one of the
great Acaryas in our line, who is holding two fingers up to indicate
Krishna and jiva. The impersonalists hold up one finger because their
idea is that everything is one. So if we make the Spiritual Master
identical with Krishna, then we will also become impersonalists. If we
say that our Spiritual Master is Krishna, then the conclusion is that
if we become Spiritual Master some day, then we will also become
Krishna. Please try to understand how dangerous this kind of reasoning
is.

In my books I have tried to explain clearly this simultaneously one and
different philosophy acinta beda beda tattva propounded by Lord
Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But sometimes it happens that this philosophy is
given a self-interested interpretation. As soon as personal motivation
comes in it is not possible for one to understand our Krishna
Consciousness philosophy."

(S.P. Letter to: Isana, Vibhavati Calcutta 21 September, 1970)

" Therefore Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura..., saksad-dharitvena
samasta-sastraih: "All the sastras, the spiritual master is accepted as
directly Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," because he is
carrying directly the message of Hari. Then again it is explained...
Then Mayavadi will say, "Then I am God. Because I am carrying the
message of Krsna, therefore I am Krsna." No. Kintu prabhor yah priya
eva tasya. Not that he has become Prabhu, or God, but he is very dear
servitor. Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya. Because He is carrying an
important message, therefore he is very confidential. And because he is
very confidential servitor, he is not different from Him. Suppose if I
ask somebody to do something very confidential, so that means he is
identical with me, because otherwise, how can I trust? Therefore it is
clear, not like Mayavadis, that "Because I have been deputed by Krsna
to carry some message," not that I have become. But I am equal because
the business is the same. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam
saranam vraja, and the spiritual master says the same thing,
sarva-dharman parityajya: "Just surrender to Krsna." Therefore, message
being the same, they are identical. The persons are identical. But not
identical in the Mayavadi sense, that he has become now God. No. He is
not God, but he is the most confidential servant of God. This is
Vaisnava philosophy. Because spiritual master has to be accepted,
saksad-dhari, directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore
the so-called spiritual master should not be puffed up, that "Now I
have become God." This is Mayavada. This is rascaldom. He is most
confidential servant of God, Krsna. Therefore the disciple accepts him
as good as God. Therefore the conclusion is simultaneously one and
different. Acintya-bhedabheda. Bheda, different, means the spiritual
master is a confidential servant, or the servant God. To the disciple
he is servant God. Just like in Christian philosophy, they say, "The
father and the son, the same." Is it not? Yes. So similarly, here the
father and son, or the spiritual master and God, they are same, but at
the same time not same. It is simultaneous."

(Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 2.9.7 Tokyo, April 24, 1972)

In the Universal Guru Form there are also 2 sorts of Forms that can be
classified into the following:

1. Krishnaization of the Guru-Tattva. This refers to the parampara
or disciplic succession before Lord Caitanya.
2. Caitanyaization of the Guru-Tattva. This refers to the parampara
or disciplic succession during and after the Advent of Lord Caitanya
and the Panca-Tattva

There is an obvious difference here because with Krishnaization of the
Guru-Tattva, the facsimile template in the Guru-Tattva was Krishna
Himself, the Original Personality of Godhead and there could only be
oneization of the Guru-Tattva. However with Caitanyaization of the
Guru-Tattva, the facsimile template in the Guru-Tattva was Panca
(5)-Tattva (Truths) - God in His 5 Features (see Japa Meditation,
2002). It was internal and carried securely in the parampara and then
there was transformation or metamorphosis, internal-external from Srila
Prabhupada (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) evidenced in the May 28
1977 Conversation. The 'opportunity' for transformation or the
Universal Form of Guru was really only available in the Caitanyaization
of the Guru-Tattva due to the Fiveization. The advent of technology in
the Western World made this Universal Guru Form possible due to Srila
Prabhupada being photographed, recorded, filmed, world-wide travelled,
documented and mass-literatureized. Krishna Himself had planned the
technology in the West to make this happen. There is thus going to
always be some use of technology for Srila Prabhupada and with increase
in popularity in Krishna Consciousness the technology will be directed
and controlled properly rather than demonically. This is also proves
that Srila Prabhupada is the Current Initiating / Diksha Spiritual
Master permanently and eternally till humanity remains humanity.

AVAILABLE AT
http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

--Caitanyaization / Fiveization of Guru-Tattva: Srila Prabhupada's
Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order With "Universal Guru Form" for ISKCON &
BBT / Disciples of Srila Prabhupada / Occupants of ISKCON & BBT /
Humanity, Based on May 28 1977 Conversation--

Table Index: Yellow bar represents deciphered keywords from May 28 1977
Conversation. LC=Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, LN=Lord Nityananda Prabhu,
SAA=Sri Advaita Acarya Prabhu, SG=Sri Gadadhra Prabhu, SV=Srinivasa
Prabhu

(Adapted from Japa Meditation, 2002)




......





Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

-----

Codey Ramone wrote:
"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965


PART 1





Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:


Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

Introduction:

Let me say from the start of my essay that I am not a devotee-scholar
and I wrote this essay because of my interest in His Divine Grace A C
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada a spiritual-guru, who founded in the

US
the Hare Krishna Movement and made it into a household name.

Actually this essay carries on from a series of essays that to put it
mildly were revolutionary. These were from Gio Vani, Japa Meditation
and Knowledge Management 108:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev

Process:

I began to keep for my ready reference the famous May 28 1977
Conversation in the Hare Krishna Movement that both Japa Mediation
(2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) essays were about. Based

on
these essays I tried to delve more into the Conversation, till I

picked
a sentence that I found exciting and challenging similar to

deciphering
stimulus that I liked in the above three essays. Thus there was more
deciphering work that needed doing and so this essay is a

continuation
from these revolutionary (mild word) essays. In fact, I made the
eye-opening words that I found special, "amongst our disciples," of
Srila Prabhupada, part of the title of this essay. These words
represent the Universal Guru Form. Obviously Srila Prabhupada is not
saying that his disciples are also belonging also to some other of

his
disciples. It thus suggests that "our disciples" is being told by

Srila
Prabhupada because of the Founder's presence in all the columns of
fiveization or the Amara Ajnaya Order, see Japa Meditation (2002) and
Knowledge Management 108 (2003) and that is also hence the Universal
Guru Form.

Presentation:

I have presented the essay in an informal style. This is not to say
that I want to short-change the work or that academic styles do not
have merit. Quite the reverse, I want to make my points felt clearly
and succinctly to the reader.

Finding 1:

5 Alive Brand for Prabhupada, 2nd & 3rd Alive Brand for disciples

I wanted to show the way I have arrived at some of my findings

relating
to The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation, so I have copied the
Conversation below and inside square parenthesis in blue font

italics,
I have inserted my findings where I thought appropriate. Also I have
bolded some words to tell or indicate their importance per se or in

the
findings within the square parenthesis. In case you want to look at
this Conversation without the comments and findings, please go to the
Appendices section. Please note that the findings here need to be

seen
with Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management
(2003) essays.



Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question
concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when
you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second
initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled
up [this signals establishing of the 'fixed' disciplic succession
with Srila Prabhupada being the sole permanent eternal initiating
spiritual master till humanity remains humanity as opposed to
'variable' disciplic succession] I shall recommend some of you to
act as officiating acarya(s).

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes.

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives

the
initiation and the...

Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should
not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru

hana,
(he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order.

Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who

Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're
officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa

to,
whose disciple are they?

Prabhupada: They are his disciple.

Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple.

Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That's clear.

Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer...

Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru.
That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just
see).

Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no
translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving
it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in

the
future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that
the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what

would
the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally
[Keywords are personal, reconfirmation of context and not impersonal

at
all] see these translations? [Keywords have the 3 'see' words and
singular 'you' and also "personally see" context is not impersonal
but personal context]

Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly. [the " you" of Japa
Meditation (2002), see essay chart/s]

Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the
works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT.

If
there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if
it's properly done, the BBT could publish it. [Srila Prabhupada's
books are bona fide Vedic reference-Srila Prabhupada understands like
this in his answer - any other vedic books are not bona fide, BBT is
Prabhupada's and bona fide]

Prabhupada: That we [this is 'team-personal' not impersonal] are
doing [thus this keep doing], just like Hindi. We ['team-personal'
not impersonal] are doing other languages. [Thus this keep doing,
Nothing / what is new] If it is properly translated, it can be...
[Nothing / what is new. Use of "we" and also "our" (see later)
signalling ' team.' Automatically 'team' also signal the
Panca-Tattva, but note, Srila Prabhupada is not talking to himself in

a
5-in-1 way excluding disciples from "we" and "our." Srila
Prabhupada's answer is personal to his books not someone else books
and is based on present. The communication of Srila Prabhupada is
Internal-External (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) basis with (a)

5
in 1 Srila Prabhupada and also (b) 1 in 5 Srila Prabhupada. i.e.

acinta
beda beda tattva - "inconceivably simultaneously one and different"
philosophy - also this answer is for the futu "we are doing" thus
Srila Prabhupada is present in spiritual state permanently when not
present physical state and the "doing" is because of Srila Prabhupada
is present permanently thus if Srila Prabhupada is removed by coup

and
considered not present permanently then BBT and ISKCON are destroyed

as
they have almost]

Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated
yourself.

[The choice here if Srila Prabhupada not personally see - How to
insure in the future? Either: No Change to books/initiation system or
there has to told the Concept/Test that has to match - with answer of
No Change to books/initiation system being the conclusion in the May

28
1977 Conversation ]

Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation,
[signals also to "my purports," "my disciple[s]" - and is
personalized] another person translating into Hindi or other

languages,
we ['team-personal' not impersonal] are publishing. [Nothings /
what is new] Similarly, if somebody [body based language] has
translated properly, it can be published. [Nothings / What's ne] But
amongst our ['team-personal' not impersonal] disciples, [IMPORTANT:
UNDERLINED WORDS signals UNIVERSAL GURU FORM (SEE FINDINGS), similar

to
Krishna showing in the Bhagavad-gita His Universal Form to Arjuna
however are in the time/place/circumstance a Guru-Tattva level and
implemented within the Conversation in a coded way for safety so that
the records were not destroyed by the coup disciples. The Amara

Ajnaya
Verse Order is Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) and so to
speak 'Universalization' (also symbolize the way to transcend the
material realm) of Srila Prabhupada in this
Fiveization/Presence/Association in each of 5 columns (Japa

Meditation,
2002) - instead of localization into only "I" OR "MY" columns - thus
Srila Prabhupada is saying "OUR"/"WE" because 5 entities are present.
Also this represents the order of total Parampara was carried in a
secure way for 'FIVEIZATION' (Thus there is use of words "ONE" and
"INSTRUMENT" in the Conversation). The ownership and control of Amara
Ajanya Order/ISKCON-BBT-Ritvik disciples--Other disciples are part of
the AMARA AJNAYA INSTRUMENT, THE DIVINE PRABHUPADA SONG and the
responsibility of disciples is to keep the instrument functioning.

This
also represents the total control and domination via Yoga-Maya, an
alternative to the hellish Maya style via secret material fraternity
informally and formally. "Our disciples" and later "Our translations"
and extrapolately 'Our Purports' - this is a clue - the 5 in 1
and also 5 way for Srila Prabhupada though his disciples, future
disciples and living humanity and other living entities are localized
into particular columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge
Management 108, 2003). Obviously some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples
in this conversation also (via coup) had/have turned into initiating
spiritual masters, translators or purporters was totally evil. This
simultaneous oneness and difference in the columns (see Japa
Meditation, 2002) ground-breaking because internal and
internal-external and also for future the spiritual management view

for
ISKCON and BBT] I don't think there are many who can translate
properly. [Words extrapolated or those that are not e.g. "my
translation," " my disciple," 'my purports' are obviously personal
to Srila Prabhupada and not impersonal concept, especially because of
words "we" and "our"]

Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not
perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the

BBT.
[Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and the adjective of
"highest" shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] The name

BBT
means the highest standard right now in the world. [Nothing other

than
Srila Prabhupada then and disciple starts using "we" and Srila
Prabhupada likes answer. There is also a risk that evil disciple/s

can
overstep the mark by trespassing into 'no go' columns (See Japa
Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Thus the clash

of
5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples on

Srila
Prabhupada's FIELD of UNIVERSAL GURU FORM, see Bhagavad-gita and
Kauaravas army discussions on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra. Then

the
concept of 'world'used by the disciple with Srila Prabhupada saying
"'mouth" signal the catholic symbol, possibly signalling the world
conspiracy with the disciple's name having the word Ram - in November
1977, Srila Prabhupada tells of a clip from the Rama/Ravana story of
war and battle between good and evil. Also, the same disciple's name
has sound of war, Var - perhaps symbolizing the Internal-External
unified war against Maya/Illusion. From this part of the Conversation
starts the importance of Srila Prabhupada's books and also
recordings, the no change to this and hence parampara sections in

Srila
Prabhupada's books as otherwise they would change into non-Srila
Prabhupada books and recordings]

Prabhupada: That is good answer. [Best decision of the future do not
publish anything not Srila Prabhupada's own]

Kirtanananda: Therefore [number 4], Srila Prabhupada, we think that

you
cannot leave us very soon. [Disciple starts using "we," 5 IN 1 Srila
Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada's disciples,, "Very Soon"has
the adjective of 'very' shows hate of disciple towards Srila
Prabhupada]

Prabhupada: I [personal not impersonal] don't want. But if I

[personal
not impersonal] am obliged, what can I [personal not impersonal] do?
[There are 3 "I" here representing the, Vishnu-Tattva, Panca-Tattva
symbols/responsibilities - 2nd I is risk factor (books) and if this
goes 3rd I (ritvik) is also risked]

Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want.

Prabhupada: A realized soul [personal not impersonal], must be. [This
is the 1st "must be"- relates to Srila Prabhupada with the 1st being
"Our translations must be documents." Otherwise, simply by imitating
A-B-C-D will not help. [Not imitate 5 in 1 or 5 that is against the
Amara Ajnaya Instrument / thus Srila Prabhupada signals the status of
Srila Prabhupada being the prophesized a self-effulgent initiating

guru
permamnt and eternal and tells the disciples not to imitate this
position via books, recordings or initiating diksa gurus] My

[personal
not impersonal] purports are liked by people because it is presented

as
practical experience. [personalism/also signals perhaps Gaudiya Math
'practical' experiences after disappearance of 5 in 1 SBBT in the
disunity and divide of property, literature and disciples amongst the
senior disciples with preaching decrease due to lack of 5 concept
internal, external and internal-external and Srila Prabhupada is the
self-effulgent prophesized thus 5 concept - internal, external and
internal-external] (aside It is within the mouth. [importance of
practical experience - Srila Prabhupada's mass market way versus
'hindu, ' preplanned versus random/ "liked" words sounds like
'licked' signalling catholic and "mouth" link. Also it represents
the individual or one initiating spiritual master for the universe

that
is predicted not group style that is foolish in comparison to the way
that is united-unconfusedl-individual initiating guru-one logistics
supply chain line leading to peoples mouths. Shows 'objective' for
Srila Prabhupada precisely associating with Krishna's Fiveization
Order of Amara Ajnaya to make the 'purpose' to work. The link with
"mouth" also suggests poisoning of Srila Prabhupada via "mouth" with
the suspect of christian symbol of cross being involved triggered by
the 'horizontal' and 'vertical' concepts in Japa Meditation
(2002), choice of what type order Amara Ajnaya Order is, horizontal

or
vertical and conclusion is horizontal and the conflict in the Hare
Krishna Movement because of this. "Realized soul" represents

practical
experience that is represented by a thing that goes into/must enter a
"mouth" that is represented by an instrument (Krishna's Amara Ajnaya
Order - Internal-External (Knowledge Management 108, 2003)
concretized into an instrument and personalized). The famous

instrument
of Krishna is His personal transcendental flute-thus the flute
represents experience-this instrument is passed to others to play
too-thus use of these words in quotations and inverted commas to
suggest extrapolation: 'acts'-'acting'
acharya/ritvik/"officiating acharya"-"regular guru"-"not
ordinary"-"documents"- are used in the Conversation with the bogus
instrument not required-one flute that represents bona fide.]

Bhavananda: I'm sorry.

Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [5 in 1 and 5], (laughter) that it
must enter into the mouth. [Ideas about the "mouth" can be stormed

here
--"I" and "My Disciple" are the emanators of the books and recording,
ISKCON is the "mouth" for BBT publishing unit-ISKCON temples are
inputted with the output of BBT, any other output from others is not
emanating from Srila Prabhupada and thus is to kept away due to it
being bogus. The "mouth" symbolises the centrality of for example:

the
(a) broadcaster, (b) television and (c) viewer with the 'objective'
for precision matching docking connection to make the 'purpose' to
work. Krishna's Pastimes record a failed attempt to poison of Krishna
by Putana, the female demon, that resulted in Krishna killing Putana.
Similarly, there was a failed attempt to kill Srila Prabhupada by

some
of the coup disciples with most of them falling down - the
tamas/ignorant nature of coup disciples triggered them to poison

Srila
Prabhupada. The word "mouth" also signals: catholic / christian
opposition to Krishna Consciousness, "my translation(disciple,
purports)," dentistry/den-tistry with bias by dogmatic secretive
professional types / opposition by material secret fraternity, Srila
Prabhupada's medication to solve mankind's problems , importance of
logistics-supply chain in Krishna Consciousness, books and

recordings,
instrument of flute, instrument versus internet viruses, Universes

that
there when Krishna opens his "mouth" and also shown to Advaita

Acarya,
the 3rd Column in the Panca-Tattva table (see Japa Meditation, 2002)

by
Lord Caitanya (see Appendix). Thus the "mouth" is quite important and
this reflects the powerful determination of Srila Prabhupada to

spread
Krishna Consciousness] Then it will act. [signal of officiating or
acting acharyas responsible for logistics supply chain to peoples
mouths and also Srila Prabhupada's words matching precisely
Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya] That kind of instrument
not required. [not imitate that is a A-B-C-D instrument, Not imitate

5
in 1or trespass the columns of Amara Ajnaya Instrument, Not imitate
Srila Prabhupada's realization, not use bad instruments, new non-SP /
non-5 in 1 or non-fiveization or non-universal guru form books not
required in BBT or ISKCON) It must remain three miles off. Our
[team-personal not impersonal] translation [purports, disciples,
Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order] must be documents. ["be" - the seed
word to "become/s" shows importance of the books and recordings of
Srila Prabhupada for him to "be" functioning as the sole permanent
eternal diksha guru. This is the 2nd "must be" relates to
books/recordings with the 1st being "A realized soul, must be."
Documents= suggest the word doctor, a doctor represents 3 university
degrees - called doctor with there being 3 letters for the GBC - the
Governing Body Commission of ISKCON or Hare Krishna Movement that is
there to make sure documents not myths. Even the coup disciples

motive
to poison Srila Prabhupada also became documented in this

conversation
due to Yoga Maya] They are not ordinary [Not non-fiveization
translations]... One [Set of books or 1 person via the set of books]
cannot become [5 in 1 Gaudiya Vaisnava Diksha Guru or new set of
perfect books] unless one [Self] is very realized. ['very' is GOD
HIMSELF - the next avatar of Krishna is Kalki avatar that appears
later in the Age of quarrel and hypocracy or Kali] It is not A-B-C-D
translation. [not a bogus Ravana demon (opposite to Lord Rama) 5 in

1]

Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship.

Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One
[Self] can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [The "Very"

and
the "Grand"], he (See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1) can become guru. Or
one [Self] who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he
[See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1] can become guru. And therefore I

shall
select some of you. (hums) - [5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1
Srila Prabhupada disciples that have trespassed the columns of Srila
Prabhupada's Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order instead of being
subordinate to it (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management
108, 2003) It appears that in the May 28 1977 Conversation Srila
Prabhupada talking in 3 ways: Internal, External and

Internal-External.
(1) - Internal through use of words such as "our" and "we" and "our
translations" and "our disciples." (2) - External through use of

words
of "One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he (Japa
Mediation He#1) can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's
order, the same parampara, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru."
(3) - Internal-Externally through use of words "A B C D" , "liked by
people", 'enter mouth then it will act' "documents" that tell the
magnificence of SP books/translations/purports, extrapolated into
initiation, disciples and purports, not "A B C D." On one hand Srila
Prabhupada is incredibly defending his 5 IN 1 and his

initiating/diksa
guru service and product legacy to survive permanently in the future

in
comparison to any others except Krishna personally and on the other
hand he is wanting his disciples to become gurus. These two views

need
compromising and the question and subsequent answer to what sort of
gurus, Srila Prabupada wants his disciples to function is siksa or
instructing gurus. This agrees with all three previous studies: Gio
Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108
(2003).]

Satsvarupa: That's all the questions [Should the BBT publish new

books
not translated by Srila Prabhupada and hence Srila Prabhupada books
overwritten? No - ".....One cannot become unless one is very
realized....." Srila Prabhupada May 28 1977 "very realized" refers to
Krishna because May 28 1977 is coded, see Japa Meditation 2002 and
Knowledge Management 2003]

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada








..........





Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.


  #3  
Old February 24th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Codey Ramone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 3

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

Finding 3:

Inspirational Universal Form words

To get some idea of a transformation or metamorphosis of one Form to
another and several, I have quoted some pertinent words from Chapter
11, The Universal Form from Srila Prabhupada's original Bhagavad-gita
as It Is. Please note that it only being used as a tool of education
and some common linkages and is not saying that:

1. the Universal Form is equivalent to the Universal Guru Form
2. the Universal Form and the Universal Guru Form are the same
3. the Meanings of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are
exactly same
4. the Features of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are
exactly same
5. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form do not take into
account Time, Place and Circumstances
6. that the objectives of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are
the same
7. that both Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are there for
same amount of time
8. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are broadcasted in
the same way during and after
9. that Guru is God

The common linkages of the Universal Forms and the Universal Guru Form
a

1. these words are way of understanding the useful advertising
concept of Recall and Recognition of the Universal Guru Form.
2. we should try to re-engineer our thinking, feeling, willing and
going processes that have become desensitized by Age of Kali
3. that They are both revelations
4. that there was privacy / secrecy from the Original Source when
they happened
5. that evil people conspired and are conspiring against Them
6. that They were and are protected
7. that They show Their immense power and control
8. that there is an organization
9. that They are there to connect the devotee and disciple with
Krishna and Guru
10. that Both have been recorded for posterity
11. there is deep meaning and substance to Them
12. that They all reflect the Absolute Law

Chapter 11. The Universal Form

TEXT 1

PURPORT

"..........he is thinking that although he may accept Krsna as the
source of everything, others may not. So in order to establish Krsna's
divinity for all, he is requesting Krsna in this chapter to show His
universal form. Actually when one sees the universal form of Krsna one
becomes frightened, like Arjuna, but Krsna is so kind that after
showing it He converts Himself again into His original form. Arjuna
agrees to what Krsna says several times. Krsna is speaking to him just
for his benefit, and Arjuna acknowledges that all this is happening to
him by Krsna's grace.........."

[The Universal Guru Form was not requested to be shown by the coup
disciples in May 28 1977 Conversation, though Srila Prabhupada revealed
his form for others and now in 2004 it is being revealed publicly for
posterity]

[Because Universal Guru Form differs because it is revelation and is a
revelation based on the Panca-Tattva then it is not frightening, is
completely opposite to frightening and is accepted as a permanent and
eternal feature]

[Due to the Universal Guru Form, we too should accept Srila
Prabhupada's wishes for ritvik initiations after post-November 14
1977]

TEXT 3

PURPORT

"....... Now as far as Arjuna is concerned, he is inspired by the
statements of Krsna, but in order to convince others in the future who
may think that Krsna is an ordinary person, he desires to see Him
actually in His universal form, to see how He is acting from within the
universe, although He is apart from it. Arjuna's asking the Lord's
permission is also significant. Since the Lord is the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, He is present within Arjuna himself; therefore
He knows the desire of Arjuna, and He can understand that Arjuna has no
special desire to see Him in His universal form, for he is completely
satisfied to see Him in His personal form of Krsna. But He can
understand also that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to convince
others. He did not have any personal desire for confirmation. Krsna
also understands that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to set a
criterion, for in the future there would be so many imposters who would
pose themselves as incarnations of God. The people, therefore, should
be careful; one who claims to be Krsna should be prepared to show his
universal form to confirm his claim to the people."

[Disciple and would-be disciples of Srila Prabhupada should also see
this the actual position of Srila Prabhupada from His Universal Guru
Form . Srila Prabhupada is not an ordinary guru/spiritual master. The
Universal Guru Form should further concretize his position as a jagat
and sad guru/spiritual. A great personality that will initiate
disciples permanently and eternally till humanity is humanity. He is
the Universal Guru without any doubt. The diksha spiritual master for
the Hare Krishna and Sankirtan Movement permanently and eternally till
humanity remains humanity]

[Srila Prabhupada can understand the desire of humanity to have a
diksha initiating spiritual master for the world and providing the
Universal Guru Form to enable this to happen. He also understands
through Krishna that some of his disciples will mount a coup that could
destroy the Movement and so the Universal Guru Form is presented under
the radar of the coup disciples.]

[We have seen that in the Hare Krishna Movement since November 14 1977
how much destruction has been carried out by the coup disciples, with
rumours of poisoning the physical body of Srila Prabhupada, various by
impostors that have taken the position of Srila Prabhupada and
committed crimes against children, women, men, animals and finances.
Thus the Universal Guru Form is broadcasted so that people thirsty for
spiritual development are not cheated]

[Srila Prabhupada has shown his Universal Guru Form and because Guru is
not God someone else can try to copy the Universal Guru Form, however
it will not be possible because there is the principle of the first,
winners takes all, finders keepers, spiritual success, one diksha
initiating spiritual master for the world, scriptural injunctions and
legal documents of Srila Prabhupada etc]

TEXT 4

PURPORT

"It is said that one can neither see, hear, understand nor perceive the
Supreme Lord, Krsna, by the material senses. But if one is engaged in
loving transcendental service to the Lord from the beginning, then one
can see the Lord by revelation. Every living entity is only a spiritual
spark; therefore it is not possible to see or to understand the Supreme
Lord. Arjuna, as a devotee, does not depend on his speculative
strength; rather, he admits his limitations as a living entity and
acknowledges Krsna's inestimable position. Arjuna could understand that
for a living entity it is not possible to understand the unlimited
infinite. If the infinite reveals Himself, then it is possible to
understand the nature of the infinite by the grace of the
infinite........Thus it is not possible for persons who depend on the
strength of their mental speculations to see Krsna."

[The Universal Guru Form was not asked by the coup disciples however
Srila Prabhupada made it known in 2004 publicly. We have seen with
experience that since November 14 1977. Krishna has revealed the
Universal Guru Form to us now. Srila Prabhupada has provided us the
intelligence to see the Universal Guru Form]

[With this study we hope that people inside and outside the Hare
Krishna Movement now see the Universal Guru Form. No effort is required
to see the Universal Guru Form, it is presented for the reader in the
essay. We too should acknowledge the position of Srila Prabhupada as
the universal diksha guru to take humanity Back to Godhead]

[This is so true here too because you can see the May 28 1977
Conversation but not be able to decipher the codes due to the coup and
poisoning of Srila Prabhupada that Krishna was aware of however now
Yoga-Maya had removed the illusionary energy that was hiding this
Universal Guru Form and there is this essay that provides information
about the Universal Guru Form that is scientific though there is still
need to have the capacity to understand the essay that has uncoded the
Universal Guru Form]

TEXT 5

PURPORT

"Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in His universal form, which, although a
transcendental form, is just manifested for the cosmic manifestation
and is therefore subject to the temporary time of this material nature
..........As far as a devotee is concerned, he is not eager to see the
universal form, but because Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in this way,
Krsna reveals this form........."

[This and other statements in the Chapter should help us to feel
inspired about spiritual revelations. Srila Prabhupada is not God but
there are some linkages, see earlier, that we can learn from. Though
the Universal Form is temporary the Panca-Tattva are not temporary and
neither are their activities. Due to Srila Prabhupada revelation
following the footsteps of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template
it is also not temporary]

[The Universal Form is scary and not pleasing for the devotee though
the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template revelation and hence its
meaning of the Universal Guru Form is the complete opposite, it is
friendly and loving. It is something that is pleasing that superior for
disciples and potential disciples of Srila Prabhupada and spiritual
seekers that want the highest Krishna Consciousness, Sankirtan Movement
and want to do the most service for Krishna]

TEXT 7

PURPORT

"No one can see the entire universe sitting in one place. Even the most
advanced scientist cannot see what is going on in other parts of the
universe. Krsna gives him the power to see anything he wants to see,
past, present and future. Thus by the mercy of Krsna, Arjuna is able to
see everything."

[The Universal Guru Form is complete and you can see all the bona fide
spiritual development desires for the spiritual seeker being there and
for the Hare Krishna Movement in the future]

[By the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, we too can see the Universal Guru
Form as mentioned in this essay and we can see it on Srila
Prabhupada's 5 Column Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template and
facsimile]

TEXT 8

PURPORT

".........Arjuna must confirm this because Arjuna is the beginning of
the parampara system. Those who are actually interested to
understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, and who follow
in the footsteps of Arjuna should understand that Krsna not only
theoretically presented Himself as the Supreme, but actually revealed
Himself as the Supreme."

[In our context, it is putting the Hare Krishna Movement on a bona fide
track viz-a-viz Srila Prabhupada to be reunited as the sole permanent
eternal initiating diksha spiritual master for the Hare Krishna
Movement. We should having seen the Universal Guru Form now be totally
inspired and committed to implement the Universal Guru Form under which
we have the ritvik method of initiations]

TEXT 12

PURPORT

"What Arjuna saw was indescribable, yet Sanjaya is trying to give a
mental picture of that great revelation to Dhrtarastra. Neither Sanjaya
nor Dhrtarastra was present, but Sanjaya, by the grace of Vyasa, could
see whatever happened.........."

[Only the coup disciples were present in May 28 1977 Conversation. Only
now in 2004, we are seeing the Universal Guru Form, however because it
is based on the template of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order the
revelation is cognizant, not wondrous and easy to understand]

TEXT 13

PURPORT

"The word tatra (there) is very significant. It indicates that both
Arjuna and Krsna were sitting on the chariot when Arjuna saw the
universal form. Others on the battlefield could not see this form
because Krsna gave the vision only to Arjuna. Arjuna could see in the
body of Krsna many thousands of universes. As we learn from Vedic
scriptures, there are many universes and many planets. Some of them are
made of earth, some are made of gold, some are made of jewels, some are
very great, some are not so great, etc. Sitting on his chariot, Arjuna
could see all these universes. But no one could understand what was
going on between Arjuna and Krsna."

[Only in 2004 is the Universal Guru Form being stated based on the May
28 1977 Conversation when only few coup disciples were talking to Srila
Prabhupada. However now everyone can see the Universal Guru Form that
the coup disciples could not see because it was coded for posterity.
The mention of universes in this purport provides a linkage that the
Universal Guru Form is universal. It is not that this Universal Guru
Form is only for implementing on this planet but because it is the
Absolute Law, the "mouth" it is universal, permanent and eternal based
on time, place and circumstances of each planet - the plan of the
sankirtan movement]

TEXT 28

TRANSLATION

"As the rivers flow into the sea, so all these great warriors enter
Your blazing mouths and perish."

[Text 28 should indicate to us the figure 28 that is common also
present in the name of the May 28 1977 Conversation that has become
famous in the Hare Krishna Movement. Because the word 'ritvik' was
mentioned first by the disciple to Srila Prabhupada it reflects that
the coup disciples knew that Srila Prabhupada planned a ritvik
initiation system with Srila Prabhupada remaining the sole permanent
eternal diksha initiating spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada in this
Chapter himself says that there is not such thing as accident or
coincidence it is all planned by Krishna. Thus Krishna is telling us
here that the coup disciples knew of the ritvik plan of Srila
Prabhupada and they poisoned Srila Prabhupada and suppressed the
Universal Guru Form. This is shocking is it not. No one should allow
any of the coup disciples that were wreckers to become implementers of
Universal Guru Form. They damaged the Hare Krishna Movement and
humanity for so many years, they should not be allowed to get away with
it again and be kept in the movement. Say if someone deliberately
tore-off Chapter 11 of Bhagavad-gita As It Is of Srila Prabhupada from
all copies and they kept doing this from November 14 1977, they would
not be allowed to do this, it would be criminal act of vandalization
and they would not be allowed to keep their position. The poisoning
would also be very serious and according to the penal code in some
countries, for poisoning someone, anyone results in punishment by
hanging or the electric chair without any pardon. Now Srila Prabhupada
is present spiritually only, should anyone allow Srila Prabhupada's
Universal Guru Form to be banned. The punishment for crime of
suppressing and poisoning firstly the physical poisoning and now the
spiritual poisoning that is happening to Srila Prabhupada should be
made severe in this planet and is tremendously severe spiritually]


......

Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.


-----

  #4  
Old February 24th, 2005, 02:04 PM
Codey Ramone
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 4

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

TEXT 32

PURPORT

".........Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this
devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth
destroys everything, even Brahma."

[The Hare Krishna Movement is a battle against illusion through the
congregational chanting. With the Universal Guru Form that is an
essential component it decreases and destroys illusion and so
illusion-supporters are fearful of the progress of the Hare Krishna
Movement and disguise themselves as devotees, outside the movement they
could be part of an formal, informal, conscious, unconscious,
positioned, unpositioned secret material fraternal that tries to
pollute religiosity]

TEXT 33

PURPORT

"......... "Just become an instrument": nimitta-matram. This word is
also very significant. The whole world is moving according to the plan
of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Foolish persons who do not have
sufficient knowledge think that nature is moving without a plan and all
manifestations are but accidental formations. There are many so-called
scientists who suggest that perhaps it was like this, or maybe like
that, but there is no question of "perhaps" and "maybe." There is a
specific plan being carried out in this material world. What is this
plan? This cosmic manifestation is a chance for the conditioned souls
to go back to Godhead, back to home. As long as they have the
domineering mentality which makes them try to lord it over material
nature, they are conditioned. But anyone who can understand the plan of
the Supreme Lord and cultivate Krsna consciousness is most intelligent.
The creation and destruction of the cosmic manifestation are under the
superior guidance of God. Thus the Battle of Kuruksetra was fought
according to the plan of God........"

[The Universal Guru Form being there and being deciphered in 2004 for
the first time since May 28 1977 Conversation is also not a
coincidence]

[There is also plan of demonic beings that try to thwart the plan of
Krishna by for example suppressing the Universal Guru Form or
unsuccessfully try to poison again this time the spiritually present
Srila Prabhupada for everyone]

[The Universal Guru Form is important for going Back to Godhead]

[The plan of Krishna is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada the
sole permanent eternal diksha initiating spiritual master for the
universe]

[The Universal Form revelation in Kurukshetra is linked to the
Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order and template that Srila Prabhupada has
followed, there is thus new evidence supporting the Advent of Lord
Caitanya with the diksha iniating spiritual master, current permanent
eternal link, Srila Prabhupada in the Gaudiya-Vaisnava disciplic
succession revealing His Universal Guru Form too albeit on a scale of
Guru not God and this is bona fide for humanity, till humanity remains
humanity]

TEXT 34

PURPORT

"........ Life should therefore move in such a way that everyone acts
in Krsna consciousness and understands the Supreme Personality of
Godhead through the medium of a spiritual master. The plans of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead are understood by His mercy, and the
plans of the devotees are as good as His plans. One should follow such
plans and be victorious in the struggle for existence."

[Thus the plan of Krishna is for the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada for this planet and the universe to allow everyone to become
fully Krishna Consciousness by following and taking diksha initiation
from Srila Prabhupada. Without the Universal Guru Form there is no hope
for becoming really Krishna Consciousness]

TEXT 36

PURPORT

"Arjuna, after hearing from Krsna about the outcome of the Battle of
Kuruksetra, became an enlightened devotee of the Supreme Lord. He
admitted that everything done by Krsna is quite fit. Arjuna confirmed
that Krsna is the maintainer and the object of worship for the devotees
and the destroyer of the undesirables. His actions are equally good for
all. Arjuna understood herein that when the Battle of Kuruksetra was
being concluded, in outer space there were present many demigods,
siddhas, and the intelligentsia of the higher planets, and they were
observing the fight because Krsna was present there. When Arjuna saw
the universal form of the Lord, the demigods took pleasure in it, but
others, who were demons and atheists, could not stand it when the Lord
was praised. Out of their natural fear of the devastating form of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, they fled. Krsna's treatment of the
devotees and the atheists is praised by Arjuna. In all cases a devotee
glorifies the Lord because he knows that whatever He does is good for
all."

[Enlightenment is an objective of this essay so that people become
successful in their spiritual development and Krishna Consciousness]

[This should signal to us in our revelation that we also respect Srila
Prabhupada's Universal Guru Form and that Srila Prabhupada is our
well-wisher]

[This revelation of Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada is also
being Witnessed by Krishna and His Management, thus we should make sure
that we follow the Universal Guru Form and immediately bona fide-ize
the Hare Krishna Movement so it taken away from hands of coup disciples
and their supporters]

[The Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada will no doubt scare the
demonic people]

TEXT 41-42

PURPORT

"......... Arjuna did not know how many times he may have dishonored
Him by addressing Him as "O my friend," "O Krsna," "O Yadava," etc.,
without acknowledging His opulence. But Krsna is so kind and merciful
that in spite of such opulence He played with Arjuna as a friend. Such
is the transcendental loving reciprocation between the devotee and the
Lord........"

[Obviously this is no way suggests that suppressing of the Universal
Guru Form or poisoning the physical body and then attempt to poison the
spiritual presence of Srila Prabhupada by the coup disciples and their
supporters is the same when in fact it is a total crime based on this
planet and the spiritual laws of Krishna]

TEXT 43

PURPORT

"......no one is equal to or higher than Krsna within any
manifestation, spiritual or material. Everyone is below Him. No one can
excel Him.........Everyone is complying with His order. There is no one
who can deny His order. ......."

[These words should signal for the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada that no one in the Universal Guru Form is equal or higher
than Srila Prabhupada and is the sole permanent eternal spiritual
master. Only Krishna can take-over from Srila Prabhupada. Thus everyone
trying to become Krishna Consciousness should follow the Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Order of Srila Prabhupada that is being followed by him
based on the template of Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva]



TEXT 47

TRANSLATION

PURPORT

"....... No one had seen this universal form of the Lord before Arjuna,
but because the form was shown to Arjuna, other devotees in the
heavenly planets and in other planets in outer space could also see it.
They did not seen it before, but because of Arjuna they were able to
see it. ......"

[There is some linkage here because it is also possible that the
Universal Guru Form perhaps has not been seen by anyone before. The
Universal Guru Form was recorded on May 28 1977 and the Universal Guru
Form has not been seen in the recording till 2004. However, now with
this essay people can see it.]

TEXT 48

PURPORT

".....In this verse there are some significant words, like
veda-yajnadhyayanaih, which refers to studying Vedic literature and the
subject matter of sacrificial regulations. Veda refers to all kinds of
Vedic literature, namely the four Vedas (Rg, Yajus, Sama and Atharva)
and the eighteen Puranas, the Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra. One can
study these at home or anywhere else. ........but unless he is a
devotee like Arjuna, it is not possible to see that universal
form........."

[This should signal in our context of the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada about how important it is to accept spiritual injunctions
without them we are on dangerous ground and the objective if
bhakti-yoga is never achievable without important criteria being met. A
devotee can join or participate in the Hare Krishna Movement for as
long as they want however if the Universal Guru Form implementation is
not there then accordingly it is not possible to become really Krishna
Consciousness]

TEXT 49

PURPORT

"........now Arjuna wanted to see the four-armed form, and Krsna showed
him. A devotee is not much interested in the universal form, for it
does not enable one to reciprocate loving feelings. A devotee wants to
offer his respectful worshiping feelings; thus he wants to see the
two-handed or four-handed Krsna form so he can reciprocate in loving
service with the Supreme Personality of Godhead......."

[Srila Prabhupada is 2-armed however with the Universal Guru Form is
symbolically 10-armed due to the 5 transcendental features and entity
roles based on the facsimile of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order. We
are looking at Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad-gita to educate ourselves in
some linkages that are there due to a transformation revelation. The
Panca-Tattva are 10-armed are they are accepted perfectly by pure
devotees and thus similarly because Srila Prabhupada is following in
their steps should be also accepted. Thus there should not be any
confusion because we are looking at linkages and not crude comparisons
that are out of context. ]

......


Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

-----

Codey Ramone wrote:
"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 3

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

...../Cont'd

Finding 3:

Inspirational Universal Form words

To get some idea of a transformation or metamorphosis of one Form to
another and several, I have quoted some pertinent words from Chapter
11, The Universal Form from Srila Prabhupada's original Bhagavad-gita
as It Is. Please note that it only being used as a tool of education
and some common linkages and is not saying that:

1. the Universal Form is equivalent to the Universal Guru Form
2. the Universal Form and the Universal Guru Form are the same
3. the Meanings of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are
exactly same
4. the Features of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are
exactly same
5. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form do not take into
account Time, Place and Circumstances
6. that the objectives of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form

are
the same
7. that both Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are there for
same amount of time
8. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are broadcasted in
the same way during and after
9. that Guru is God

The common linkages of the Universal Forms and the Universal Guru

Form
a

1. these words are way of understanding the useful advertising
concept of Recall and Recognition of the Universal Guru Form.
2. we should try to re-engineer our thinking, feeling, willing and
going processes that have become desensitized by Age of Kali
3. that They are both revelations
4. that there was privacy / secrecy from the Original Source when
they happened
5. that evil people conspired and are conspiring against Them
6. that They were and are protected
7. that They show Their immense power and control
8. that there is an organization
9. that They are there to connect the devotee and disciple with
Krishna and Guru
10. that Both have been recorded for posterity
11. there is deep meaning and substance to Them
12. that They all reflect the Absolute Law

Chapter 11. The Universal Form

TEXT 1

PURPORT

"..........he is thinking that although he may accept Krsna as the
source of everything, others may not. So in order to establish

Krsna's
divinity for all, he is requesting Krsna in this chapter to show His
universal form. Actually when one sees the universal form of Krsna

one
becomes frightened, like Arjuna, but Krsna is so kind that after
showing it He converts Himself again into His original form. Arjuna
agrees to what Krsna says several times. Krsna is speaking to him

just
for his benefit, and Arjuna acknowledges that all this is happening

to
him by Krsna's grace.........."

[The Universal Guru Form was not requested to be shown by the coup
disciples in May 28 1977 Conversation, though Srila Prabhupada

revealed
his form for others and now in 2004 it is being revealed publicly for
posterity]

[Because Universal Guru Form differs because it is revelation and is

a
revelation based on the Panca-Tattva then it is not frightening, is
completely opposite to frightening and is accepted as a permanent and
eternal feature]

[Due to the Universal Guru Form, we too should accept Srila
Prabhupada's wishes for ritvik initiations after post-November 14
1977]

TEXT 3

PURPORT

"....... Now as far as Arjuna is concerned, he is inspired by the
statements of Krsna, but in order to convince others in the future

who
may think that Krsna is an ordinary person, he desires to see Him
actually in His universal form, to see how He is acting from within

the
universe, although He is apart from it. Arjuna's asking the Lord's
permission is also significant. Since the Lord is the Supreme
Personality of Godhead, He is present within Arjuna himself;

therefore
He knows the desire of Arjuna, and He can understand that Arjuna has

no
special desire to see Him in His universal form, for he is completely
satisfied to see Him in His personal form of Krsna. But He can
understand also that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to

convince
others. He did not have any personal desire for confirmation. Krsna
also understands that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to set a
criterion, for in the future there would be so many imposters who

would
pose themselves as incarnations of God. The people, therefore, should
be careful; one who claims to be Krsna should be prepared to show his
universal form to confirm his claim to the people."

[Disciple and would-be disciples of Srila Prabhupada should also see
this the actual position of Srila Prabhupada from His Universal Guru
Form . Srila Prabhupada is not an ordinary guru/spiritual master. The
Universal Guru Form should further concretize his position as a jagat
and sad guru/spiritual. A great personality that will initiate
disciples permanently and eternally till humanity is humanity. He is
the Universal Guru without any doubt. The diksha spiritual master for
the Hare Krishna and Sankirtan Movement permanently and eternally

till
humanity remains humanity]

[Srila Prabhupada can understand the desire of humanity to have a
diksha initiating spiritual master for the world and providing the
Universal Guru Form to enable this to happen. He also understands
through Krishna that some of his disciples will mount a coup that

could
destroy the Movement and so the Universal Guru Form is presented

under
the radar of the coup disciples.]

[We have seen that in the Hare Krishna Movement since November 14

1977
how much destruction has been carried out by the coup disciples, with
rumours of poisoning the physical body of Srila Prabhupada, various

by
impostors that have taken the position of Srila Prabhupada and
committed crimes against children, women, men, animals and finances.
Thus the Universal Guru Form is broadcasted so that people thirsty

for
spiritual development are not cheated]

[Srila Prabhupada has shown his Universal Guru Form and because Guru

is
not God someone else can try to copy the Universal Guru Form, however
it will not be possible because there is the principle of the first,
winners takes all, finders keepers, spiritual success, one diksha
initiating spiritual master for the world, scriptural injunctions and
legal documents of Srila Prabhupada etc]

TEXT 4

PURPORT

"It is said that one can neither see, hear, understand nor perceive

the
Supreme Lord, Krsna, by the material senses. But if one is engaged in
loving transcendental service to the Lord from the beginning, then

one
can see the Lord by revelation. Every living entity is only a

spiritual
spark; therefore it is not possible to see or to understand the

Supreme
Lord. Arjuna, as a devotee, does not depend on his speculative
strength; rather, he admits his limitations as a living entity and
acknowledges Krsna's inestimable position. Arjuna could understand

that
for a living entity it is not possible to understand the unlimited
infinite. If the infinite reveals Himself, then it is possible to
understand the nature of the infinite by the grace of the
infinite........Thus it is not possible for persons who depend on the
strength of their mental speculations to see Krsna."

[The Universal Guru Form was not asked by the coup disciples however
Srila Prabhupada made it known in 2004 publicly. We have seen with
experience that since November 14 1977. Krishna has revealed the
Universal Guru Form to us now. Srila Prabhupada has provided us the
intelligence to see the Universal Guru Form]

[With this study we hope that people inside and outside the Hare
Krishna Movement now see the Universal Guru Form. No effort is

required
to see the Universal Guru Form, it is presented for the reader in the
essay. We too should acknowledge the position of Srila Prabhupada as
the universal diksha guru to take humanity Back to Godhead]

[This is so true here too because you can see the May 28 1977
Conversation but not be able to decipher the codes due to the coup

and
poisoning of Srila Prabhupada that Krishna was aware of however now
Yoga-Maya had removed the illusionary energy that was hiding this
Universal Guru Form and there is this essay that provides information
about the Universal Guru Form that is scientific though there is

still
need to have the capacity to understand the essay that has uncoded

the
Universal Guru Form]

TEXT 5

PURPORT

"Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in His universal form, which, although a
transcendental form, is just manifested for the cosmic manifestation
and is therefore subject to the temporary time of this material

nature
.........As far as a devotee is concerned, he is not eager to see the
universal form, but because Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in this way,
Krsna reveals this form........."

[This and other statements in the Chapter should help us to feel
inspired about spiritual revelations. Srila Prabhupada is not God but
there are some linkages, see earlier, that we can learn from. Though
the Universal Form is temporary the Panca-Tattva are not temporary

and
neither are their activities. Due to Srila Prabhupada revelation
following the footsteps of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order

template
it is also not temporary]

[The Universal Form is scary and not pleasing for the devotee though
the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template revelation and hence its
meaning of the Universal Guru Form is the complete opposite, it is
friendly and loving. It is something that is pleasing that superior

for
disciples and potential disciples of Srila Prabhupada and spiritual
seekers that want the highest Krishna Consciousness, Sankirtan

Movement
and want to do the most service for Krishna]

TEXT 7

PURPORT

"No one can see the entire universe sitting in one place. Even the

most
advanced scientist cannot see what is going on in other parts of the
universe. Krsna gives him the power to see anything he wants to see,
past, present and future. Thus by the mercy of Krsna, Arjuna is able

to
see everything."

[The Universal Guru Form is complete and you can see all the bona

fide
spiritual development desires for the spiritual seeker being there

and
for the Hare Krishna Movement in the future]

[By the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, we too can see the Universal Guru
Form as mentioned in this essay and we can see it on Srila
Prabhupada's 5 Column Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template and
facsimile]

TEXT 8

PURPORT

".........Arjuna must confirm this because Arjuna is the beginning of
the parampara system. Those who are actually interested to
understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, and who

follow
in the footsteps of Arjuna should understand that Krsna not only
theoretically presented Himself as the Supreme, but actually revealed
Himself as the Supreme."

[In our context, it is putting the Hare Krishna Movement on a bona

fide
track viz-a-viz Srila Prabhupada to be reunited as the sole permanent
eternal initiating diksha spiritual master for the Hare Krishna
Movement. We should having seen the Universal Guru Form now be

totally
inspired and committed to implement the Universal Guru Form under

which
we have the ritvik method of initiations]

TEXT 12

PURPORT

"What Arjuna saw was indescribable, yet Sanjaya is trying to give a
mental picture of that great revelation to Dhrtarastra. Neither

Sanjaya
nor Dhrtarastra was present, but Sanjaya, by the grace of Vyasa,

could
see whatever happened.........."

[Only the coup disciples were present in May 28 1977 Conversation.

Only
now in 2004, we are seeing the Universal Guru Form, however because

it
is based on the template of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order the
revelation is cognizant, not wondrous and easy to understand]

TEXT 13

PURPORT

"The word tatra (there) is very significant. It indicates that both
Arjuna and Krsna were sitting on the chariot when Arjuna saw the
universal form. Others on the battlefield could not see this form
because Krsna gave the vision only to Arjuna. Arjuna could see in the
body of Krsna many thousands of universes. As we learn from Vedic
scriptures, there are many universes and many planets. Some of them

are
made of earth, some are made of gold, some are made of jewels, some

are
very great, some are not so great, etc. Sitting on his chariot,

Arjuna
could see all these universes. But no one could understand what was
going on between Arjuna and Krsna."

[Only in 2004 is the Universal Guru Form being stated based on the

May
28 1977 Conversation when only few coup disciples were talking to

Srila
Prabhupada. However now everyone can see the Universal Guru Form that
the coup disciples could not see because it was coded for posterity.
The mention of universes in this purport provides a linkage that the
Universal Guru Form is universal. It is not that this Universal Guru
Form is only for implementing on this planet but because it is the
Absolute Law, the "mouth" it is universal, permanent and eternal

based
on time, place and circumstances of each planet - the plan of the
sankirtan movement]

TEXT 28

TRANSLATION

"As the rivers flow into the sea, so all these great warriors enter
Your blazing mouths and perish."

[Text 28 should indicate to us the figure 28 that is common also
present in the name of the May 28 1977 Conversation that has become
famous in the Hare Krishna Movement. Because the word 'ritvik' was
mentioned first by the disciple to Srila Prabhupada it reflects that
the coup disciples knew that Srila Prabhupada planned a ritvik
initiation system with Srila Prabhupada remaining the sole permanent
eternal diksha initiating spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada in this
Chapter himself says that there is not such thing as accident or
coincidence it is all planned by Krishna. Thus Krishna is telling us
here that the coup disciples knew of the ritvik plan of Srila
Prabhupada and they poisoned Srila Prabhupada and suppressed the
Universal Guru Form. This is shocking is it not. No one should allow
any of the coup disciples that were wreckers to become implementers

of
Universal Guru Form. They damaged the Hare Krishna Movement and
humanity for so many years, they should not be allowed to get away

with
it again and be kept in the movement. Say if someone deliberately
tore-off Chapter 11 of Bhagavad-gita As It Is of Srila Prabhupada

from
all copies and they kept doing this from November 14 1977, they would
not be allowed to do this, it would be criminal act of vandalization
and they would not be allowed to keep their position. The poisoning
would also be very serious and according to the penal code in some
countries, for poisoning someone, anyone results in punishment by
hanging or the electric chair without any pardon. Now Srila

Prabhupada
is present spiritually only, should anyone allow Srila Prabhupada's
Universal Guru Form to be banned. The punishment for crime of
suppressing and poisoning firstly the physical poisoning and now the
spiritual poisoning that is happening to Srila Prabhupada should be
made severe in this planet and is tremendously severe spiritually]


.....

Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.


-----


  #5  
Old February 24th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Universal Guru Form
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 4

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

TEXT 32

PURPORT

".........Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this
devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth
destroys everything, even Brahma."

[The Hare Krishna Movement is a battle against illusion through the
congregational chanting. With the Universal Guru Form that is an
essential component it decreases and destroys illusion and so
illusion-supporters are fearful of the progress of the Hare Krishna
Movement and disguise themselves as devotees, outside the movement they
could be part of an formal, informal, conscious, unconscious,
positioned, unpositioned secret material fraternal that tries to
pollute religiosity]

TEXT 33

PURPORT

"......... "Just become an instrument": nimitta-matram. This word is
also very significant. The whole world is moving according to the plan
of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Foolish persons who do not have
sufficient knowledge think that nature is moving without a plan and all
manifestations are but accidental formations. There are many so-called
scientists who suggest that perhaps it was like this, or maybe like
that, but there is no question of "perhaps" and "maybe." There is a
specific plan being carried out in this material world. What is this
plan? This cosmic manifestation is a chance for the conditioned souls
to go back to Godhead, back to home. As long as they have the
domineering mentality which makes them try to lord it over material
nature, they are conditioned. But anyone who can understand the plan of
the Supreme Lord and cultivate Krsna consciousness is most intelligent.
The creation and destruction of the cosmic manifestation are under the
superior guidance of God. Thus the Battle of Kuruksetra was fought
according to the plan of God........"

[The Universal Guru Form being there and being deciphered in 2004 for
the first time since May 28 1977 Conversation is also not a
coincidence]

[There is also plan of demonic beings that try to thwart the plan of
Krishna by for example suppressing the Universal Guru Form or
unsuccessfully try to poison again this time the spiritually present
Srila Prabhupada for everyone]

[The Universal Guru Form is important for going Back to Godhead]

[The plan of Krishna is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada the
sole permanent eternal diksha initiating spiritual master for the
universe]

[The Universal Form revelation in Kurukshetra is linked to the
Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order and template that Srila Prabhupada has
followed, there is thus new evidence supporting the Advent of Lord
Caitanya with the diksha iniating spiritual master, current permanent
eternal link, Srila Prabhupada in the Gaudiya-Vaisnava disciplic
succession revealing His Universal Guru Form too albeit on a scale of
Guru not God and this is bona fide for humanity, till humanity remains
humanity]

TEXT 34

PURPORT

"........ Life should therefore move in such a way that everyone acts
in Krsna consciousness and understands the Supreme Personality of
Godhead through the medium of a spiritual master. The plans of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead are understood by His mercy, and the
plans of the devotees are as good as His plans. One should follow such
plans and be victorious in the struggle for existence."

[Thus the plan of Krishna is for the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada for this planet and the universe to allow everyone to become
fully Krishna Consciousness by following and taking diksha initiation
from Srila Prabhupada. Without the Universal Guru Form there is no hope
for becoming really Krishna Consciousness]

TEXT 36

PURPORT

"Arjuna, after hearing from Krsna about the outcome of the Battle of
Kuruksetra, became an enlightened devotee of the Supreme Lord. He
admitted that everything done by Krsna is quite fit. Arjuna confirmed
that Krsna is the maintainer and the object of worship for the devotees
and the destroyer of the undesirables. His actions are equally good for
all. Arjuna understood herein that when the Battle of Kuruksetra was
being concluded, in outer space there were present many demigods,
siddhas, and the intelligentsia of the higher planets, and they were
observing the fight because Krsna was present there. When Arjuna saw
the universal form of the Lord, the demigods took pleasure in it, but
others, who were demons and atheists, could not stand it when the Lord
was praised. Out of their natural fear of the devastating form of the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, they fled. Krsna's treatment of the
devotees and the atheists is praised by Arjuna. In all cases a devotee
glorifies the Lord because he knows that whatever He does is good for
all."

[Enlightenment is an objective of this essay so that people become
successful in their spiritual development and Krishna Consciousness]

[This should signal to us in our revelation that we also respect Srila
Prabhupada's Universal Guru Form and that Srila Prabhupada is our
well-wisher]

[This revelation of Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada is also
being Witnessed by Krishna and His Management, thus we should make sure
that we follow the Universal Guru Form and immediately bona fide-ize
the Hare Krishna Movement so it taken away from hands of coup disciples
and their supporters]

[The Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada will no doubt scare the
demonic people]

TEXT 41-42

PURPORT

"......... Arjuna did not know how many times he may have dishonored
Him by addressing Him as "O my friend," "O Krsna," "O Yadava," etc.,
without acknowledging His opulence. But Krsna is so kind and merciful
that in spite of such opulence He played with Arjuna as a friend. Such
is the transcendental loving reciprocation between the devotee and the
Lord........"

[Obviously this is no way suggests that suppressing of the Universal
Guru Form or poisoning the physical body and then attempt to poison the
spiritual presence of Srila Prabhupada by the coup disciples and their
supporters is the same when in fact it is a total crime based on this
planet and the spiritual laws of Krishna]

TEXT 43

PURPORT

"......no one is equal to or higher than Krsna within any
manifestation, spiritual or material. Everyone is below Him. No one can
excel Him.........Everyone is complying with His order. There is no one
who can deny His order. ......."

[These words should signal for the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada that no one in the Universal Guru Form is equal or higher
than Srila Prabhupada and is the sole permanent eternal spiritual
master. Only Krishna can take-over from Srila Prabhupada. Thus everyone
trying to become Krishna Consciousness should follow the Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Order of Srila Prabhupada that is being followed by him
based on the template of Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva]



TEXT 47

TRANSLATION

PURPORT

"....... No one had seen this universal form of the Lord before Arjuna,
but because the form was shown to Arjuna, other devotees in the
heavenly planets and in other planets in outer space could also see it.
They did not seen it before, but because of Arjuna they were able to
see it. ......"

[There is some linkage here because it is also possible that the
Universal Guru Form perhaps has not been seen by anyone before. The
Universal Guru Form was recorded on May 28 1977 and the Universal Guru
Form has not been seen in the recording till 2004. However, now with
this essay people can see it.]

TEXT 48

PURPORT

".....In this verse there are some significant words, like
veda-yajnadhyayanaih, which refers to studying Vedic literature and the
subject matter of sacrificial regulations. Veda refers to all kinds of
Vedic literature, namely the four Vedas (Rg, Yajus, Sama and Atharva)
and the eighteen Puranas, the Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra. One can
study these at home or anywhere else. ........but unless he is a
devotee like Arjuna, it is not possible to see that universal
form........."

[This should signal in our context of the Universal Guru Form of Srila
Prabhupada about how important it is to accept spiritual injunctions
without them we are on dangerous ground and the objective if
bhakti-yoga is never achievable without important criteria being met. A
devotee can join or participate in the Hare Krishna Movement for as
long as they want however if the Universal Guru Form implementation is
not there then accordingly it is not possible to become really Krishna
Consciousness]

TEXT 49

PURPORT

"........now Arjuna wanted to see the four-armed form, and Krsna showed
him. A devotee is not much interested in the universal form, for it
does not enable one to reciprocate loving feelings. A devotee wants to
offer his respectful worshiping feelings; thus he wants to see the
two-handed or four-handed Krsna form so he can reciprocate in loving
service with the Supreme Personality of Godhead......."

[Srila Prabhupada is 2-armed however with the Universal Guru Form is
symbolically 10-armed due to the 5 transcendental features and entity
roles based on the facsimile of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order. We
are looking at Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad-gita to educate ourselves in
some linkages that are there due to a transformation revelation. The
Panca-Tattva are 10-armed are they are accepted perfectly by pure
devotees and thus similarly because Srila Prabhupada is following in
their steps should be also accepted. Thus there should not be any
confusion because we are looking at linkages and not crude comparisons
that are out of context. ]

TEXT 50

PURPORT

"........The word saumya-vapuh is very significant. Saumya-vapuh is a
very beautiful form; it is known as the most beautiful form. When He
was present, everyone was attracted simply by Krsna's form, and because
Krsna is director of the universe, He just banished the fear of Arjuna,
His devotee, and showed him again His beautiful form of Krsna. In the
Brahma-samhita it is stated that only a person whose eyes are smeared
with the ointment of love can see the beautiful form of Sri
Krsna......"

[Thus the importance is given to the Form. In our Guru-Tattva context
the perfect form is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada
permanently and eternally.]

TEXT 54

PURPORT

"Krsna can be understood only by the process of undivided devotional
service. He explicitly explains this in this verse so unauthorized
commentators, who try to understand Bhagavad-gita by the speculative
process, will know that they are simply wasting their time. ......if
one at all wants to understand Krsna, he must follow the regulative
principles described in the authoritative literature......charity
should be given to the devotees of Krsna who are engaged in His
devotional service to spread the Krsna philosophy or Krsna
consciousness throughout the world. ...... For one who does not take
personal training under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master,
it is impossible to even begin to understand Krsna. The word tu is
specifically used here to indicate that no other process can be used,
can be recommended, or can be successful in understanding
Krsna.......Krsna is not an incarnation of God but is the original
Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam.
........"

[To follow pure Krishna Consciousness, the bona fide way needs to be
followed of Universal Guru Form, all other ways to follow Krishna
Consciousness are a waste of time as the regulative principles would
not have been followed and realistically charity for bogus following
should not be given with the guidance of diksha initiating spiritual
master not being followed based on His Universal Guru Form. The
Universal Guru Form is not a 'double' for Srila Prabhupada but
Srila Prabhupada himself.]

TEXT 55

PURPORT

"......Therefore the pure form of devotional service is described in
Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu as follows: anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam anukulyena krsnanu silanam bhaktir uttama. In
this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami clearly states that if anyone wants to
execute unalloyed devotional service, he must be freed from all kinds
of material contamination. He must be freed from the association of
persons who are addicted to fruitive activities and mental speculation.
When, freed from such unwanted association and from the contamination
of material desires, one favorably cultivates knowledge of Krsna, that
is called pure devotional service. ...... Lord Jesus Christ. He was
crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading
God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand
that he was killed. ......."

[Accordingly in our context those people following the Universal Guru
Form of Srila Prabhupada should disassociate themselves from fruitive
and contaminated people for their Krishna Consciousness. Thus devotees
inside and outside ISKCON and BBT should separate themselves from the
coup disciples and their supporters and take action to remove them.
They should not allow the poisoning of the spiritually present
Universal Guru Form to occur. Srila Prabhupada is permanently and
eternally alive.]





......





Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

  #6  
Old February 24th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Universal Guru Form
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 5

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

Finding 4:

The Restaurant

The May 28 1977 had not been decoded or understood for quite a few
years by the majority of the devotees until the revolutionary study of
Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003). This
attempt is to simplify these revolutionary essays directly to the May
28 1977 Conversation through the allegory of Restaurant because of the
5 levels or standards that are deployed in the hospitality business by
the well-known branding tiers - 5 Star, 4 Star, 3 Star, 2 Star and 1
Star.

The purpose of this essay to show the 'system' that is
'stemming/originating' from the Panca-Tattva, the Advent of Krishna
in 5 Forms and Truths told in Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge
Management (2003) by way of the hospitality industry.

The author would like to say at this point that the conversion of
personality and groups into Restaurants tiers cannot be defined into
levels of quality but the author would like it to be seen as a
quantitative differentiation only. The qualitative differentiation
should be seen on basis of the above mentioned essays and Gio Vani
(2001).

The author thinks that this allegory arose when some years ago when
there was meeting with someone in the hospitality business that was
near a Hare Krishna Temple after the author had visited the same temple
and it was a way for Krishna to tell the author.

It can be philosophized that that these quantitative differences are
important for understanding the parts seen in the above mentioned
essays, that they are needed to experience, that they are needed for
meaning or understanding, that they are needed for comparison, that
they are needed for servicescape, that they are needed for structure or
organisation, that they are external or apparent, that they are needed
for realizations, that they are needed for understanding principles,
that the allegory is spiritualized through dovetailing.

The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation

Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our [Restaurant No
name as yet-though know 3 star]next question concerns initiations in
the future, particularly at that time when you're [Restaurant 5 star &
5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]no longer with us
[Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]. We [Restaurant No name
as yet-though know 3 star]want to know how first and second initiation
would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator] shall recommend some of you [Restaurant 4 star]. After
this is settled up I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator]shall recommend some of you [Restaurant 4 star]to act as
officiating acarya(s) [Restaurant 3 star].

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? [Restaurant 3 star]

Prabhupada: Ritvik [Restaurant 3 star]. Yes.

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person [Restaurant 3
star]who gives the initiation and the... [Restaurant 2 star]

Prabhupada: He's [Restaurant 3 star] guru [Restaurant 3 star]. He's
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] guru
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator].

Satsvarupa: But he [Restaurant 3 star]does it on your [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my [Restaurant 5 star &
5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]presence one [Restaurant 3
star]should not become guru [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star &
5/4/3/2/1 stars creator], so on my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]behalf. On my [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]order, amara ajnaya guru hana,
(he [Restaurant 3 star] is) (be) actually guru [Restaurant 3 star]. But
by my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator]order.

Satsvarupa: So they [Restaurant 2 star] may also be considered your
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator]disciples [Restaurant 2/3/4 star].

Prabhupada: Yes, they [Restaurant 2 star]are disciples [Restaurant
2/3/4 star], (but) (why) consider.....who [Restaurant 2/3/4 star]

Tamala Krsna: No, he's [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3
star]asking that these rtvik-acaryas [Restaurant 3 star], they're
[Restaurant 3 star] officiating, giving diksa. Their [Restaurant 3
star]... The people [Restaurant 2 star]who they [Restaurant 3 star]give
diksa to, whose [Restaurant 1/2/3/4/5 star]disciple [Restaurant 2 star]
are they [Restaurant 2 star]?

Prabhupada: They [Restaurant 2 star] are his [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4
star].

Tamala Krsna: They're[Restaurant 2 star] his [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4
star].

Prabhupada: Who [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator] is initiating.....(his) [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator [God]] (he is)
grand-disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star].

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That's clear.

Satsvarupa: Then we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]have
a question concer...

Prabhupada: When I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator & Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand
5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator [God]]order you [Restaurant 4 star &
Grand Restaurant 4 star [God]] become guru he [Restaurant 3 star &
Grand Restaurant 3 star [God]]becomes regular guru. That's all. He
[Restaurant 2 star & Grand Restaurant 2 star [God]] becomes disciple
[Restaurant 2 star & Grand Restaurant 2 star [God]] of my [Restaurant 1
star & Grand Restaurant 1 star [God]] disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star &
Grand Restaurant 2/3/4 star [God]]. ( That's it). (Just see)
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & Grand
Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars
Grand-creator [God]].

Satsvarupa: Next we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]have
a question about the BBT[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star &
5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]. At present, no translation work [Restaurant
No name]is to be published without your [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]seeing and approving it. So
the question is, is there any system for publishing works [Restaurant
No name]in the future that you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star &
5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]may not see? For example, we've [Restaurant No
name as yet-though know 3 star]heard suggested that the Padma Purana or
the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would the system be to
insure the parampara [Restaurant No name] if you [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]would not personally see these
translations?

Prabhupada: That you [Restaurant 4 star [Not named as yet-for
Restaurant 3 star]]have to examine expertly.

Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the
works [Restaurant No name]which you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]have already translated can be published
by the BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator]. If there is some worthy translation (Restaurant No name]of a
bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] could publish it.
(Restaurant No name].

Prabhupada: That we [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator and Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and
all other 4/3/2 star disciples]are doing, just like Hindi. We
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator and
Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and all other 4/3/2
star disciples]are doing other languages. If it [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]is properly
translated, it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator -translated]can be...

Tamala Krsna: Even if it's [Restaurant No name]a work [Restaurant No
name] which you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator]have not yet translated yourself [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator].

Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]translation, another
person [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator
-translated]translating into Hindi or other languages, we [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator and Restaurant Not
named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and all other 4/3/2 star
disciples]are publishing. Similarly, if somebody [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]has translated
properly, it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator -translated]can be published. But amongst our [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM
OF PRABHUPADA] disciples [Restaurant 2/3/4 star], I [Restaurant 5 star
& 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA]don't think there are many who [ Restaurant 2/3/4 star]can
translate properly.

Ramesvara: None. We're [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3
star]not eager to publish anything which is not perfect [Restaurant 5
star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM
OF PRABHUPADA -translated], because you [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA]have already set the highest standard for the BBT
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator &
UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]. The name BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA] means the highest standard right now in the world
[Restaurant No name/2/3/4 star].

Prabhupada: That (Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] is good answer.

Kirtanananda: Therefore, Srila Prabhupada [Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA], we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]think
that you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]cannot leave us [Restaurant
No name as yet-though know 3 star]very soon.

Prabhupada: I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]don't want. But if I
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator &
UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]am obliged [Restaurant No name as
yet-though know 3 star], what can I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]do?

Kirtanananda: If you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]don't want, Krsna
[Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars
Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]will not want.

Prabhupada: A realized soul, [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star &
5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]must be.
Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D [Restaurant No name]will not
help. My [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]purports are liked by
people [Restaurant 4/3/2 star]because it is presented as practical
experience. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] (aside It is within the
mouth. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator
& UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA & Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL
FORM [God]]

Bhavananda: I'm [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]sorry.

Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA],
(laughter) that it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1
stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]must enter into the
mouth. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator
& UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars
Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]] Then it [Restaurant 5 star &
5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA]will act. That kind of instrument [Restaurant No name] not
required [Restaurant No name]. It [Restaurant No name]must remain three
miles off. Our [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]translation must be
documents [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]. They [Restaurant 5 star &
5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA]are not ordinary ...[Restaurant No name] One [Restaurant 2
star]cannot become unless one [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM
[God]]is very [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand
5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]realized. It
is not A-B-C-D [Restaurant No name]translation.

Bhagavan: It's [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars
creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]not a matter of
scholarship.

Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5
star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL
FORM [God]]says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One [Restaurant 2 star]can
understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [Grand Restaurant 5 star &
5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL
FORM [God]], he [Restaurant 2 star]can become guru [Restaurant 3 star].
Or one [Restaurant 2 star]who understands his guru's [Restaurant 5 star
& 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creators & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF
PRABHUPADA]order, the same parampara, [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1
star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creators & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] he
[Restaurant 2 star]can become guru [Restaurant 3 star]. And therefore I
[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator &
UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] shall select some [Restaurant Not
named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star] of you [Restaurant 4 star]. (hums)

Satsvarupa: That's all [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star &
5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] the
questions.

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada





Finding 5:

Our Relationship with Krishna: In the Subset of Amara Ajnaya Order

Returning to the Restaurant example in the previous Finding, the
quantitative units / stars of 1,2,3,4 and 5 are "external" and at the
same time can also be inside or "internal" within each of the specific
quantitative stars i.e. 4 star external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1
star. 3 star external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1 star. . 2 star
external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1 star. You may ask what about 5
and 1 star? The internal 5,4,3,2,1 star are not present because they
are Srila Prabhupada's fixed position that no one else can trespass
into.

These internal components are there for (1) understanding the external
stars of 5 star, 4 star, 3 star, 2 star and 1 star and also are the (2)
syllabus for development within the parameters described in above
mentioned essays for the past/present/future disciples of Srila
Prabhupada - the constituents within the external stars, namely that
of 4,3,2 star and movement within these external stars is "variable"
except for external 4 star when it is possible to remain "fixed"
optimally but is "private" and known only to the individual constituent
and Krishna and Guru and not known to anyone else though it is possible
to estimate or measure (see the 2 mentioned essays - Knowledge
management 108, 2003 and Japa Meditation, 2002) to proceed within
external stars, namely 3 and 2 star. Please note that the constituent
of the external stars 5 and 1 star is "fixed and permanent" and is none
other than His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and
his transcendental identity.

Thus by working within this "instrument" everyone can achieve and
spiritually develop.



......

Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

  #7  
Old February 24th, 2005, 02:28 PM
Universal Guru Form
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965

PART 5

Author: Harry E. Bowl

email:

Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest
parties. Please distribute to your family and friends.

....../Cont'd

The Futu

Palanquin moving images of Srila Prabhupada where Srila Prabhupada is
sitting on the palanquin and the people carrying him are not his
disciples showed the allegory that the some of the disciples would
start a coup against Srila Prabhupada to take over his position, go
against his wishes, desire, will and Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order.

To have the Universal Guru Form requires carriage of Srila Prabhupada
murti and his books and recordings as symbol by a Ritvik disciple and a
non-ritvik disciple for preaching purposes and this would be for all
ritviks. Due to their weight, it suggests that only physically fit
Ritvik disciples and non-ritvik disciples would be able to preach the
Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada and this would be the only bona
fide way. Training would be required and the correct Srila Prabhupada
murti made in a precious metal, e.g. gold would perhaps be required.

The Ritvik would perhaps only become a Ritvik based on their preaching
ability that would in turn allow them to get a Srila Prabhupada murti
of special metal and the books and recordings. Having various preaching
parties like this travelling around the world would be good for Krishna
Consciousness. Any questions from media or publics about this would be
answered based on the Universal Guru Form.



Conclusion:

There is Symbolism of 11. The Universal Form is Chapter 11, there were
11 original Ritviks chosen, ISKCON and BBT have gone through Chapter 11
Bankruptcy.

The evil of suppressing the Universal Guru Form needs punishing without
any doubt. The coup disciples or their supporters should not be allowed
to dictate the Hare Krishna Movement. They have to be banned from the
Movement and criminally punished under the law of the land.

New names for groups in the Hare Krishna Movement need to be created.
It is not now Ritvik and Non-ritviks. With this study, it is now
Universal Guru Formers verses the Non-Universal Guru Formers. Yes, the
Ritvik initiation system is part of the Universal Guru Formers
manifesto but it is only part of a list.

Comparing of essay with Gio Vani, Japa Mediatation and
KnowledgeManagement 108 shows that there are new insights. Universal
Guru Form, new additional insights to May 28 1977 Conversation and
Spiritual development within the Universal Guru Form.

The entry or trespassing into another space that belongs to Srila
Prabhupada, with abbreviation of Universal Form being UF, close to the
abbreviation of UFO, it perhaps reflects involvement of NASA also in
the physically only disappearance of Srila Prabhupada, especially
because Srila Prabhupada does not believe that anyone landed on the
moon. Having four letters in their abbreviation with Srila Prabhupada
saying A-B-C-D, four letters, again symbolises their invovement.



Appendices:

Appendix 1:

The Use of the Word "Mouth" by His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada, in the May 28 1977 Conversation



Example 1

"Sri Caitanya-caritamrta -- Adi-lila,

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Chapter 17

The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth

TEXT 10

TEXT

sacike prema-dana, tabe advaita-milana

advaita paila visvarupa-darasana

SYNONYMS

sacike--unto mother Sacidevi; prema-dana--giving love of Godhead;
tabe--thereafter; advaita--with Advaita Acarya; milana--meeting;
advaita--Advaita Acarya; paila--received; visva-rupa--of the universal
form of the Lord; darasana--vision.

TRANSLATION

Thereafter the Lord delivered love of Krsna to His mother, Sacidevi,
nullifying her offense at the feet of Advaita Acarya. Thus there was a
meeting with Advaita Acarya, who later had a vision of the Lord's
universal form.

PURPORT

One day Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was sitting on the throne of Visnu in
the house of Srivasa Prabhu, and in a mood of His own He said, "My
mother has offended the lotus feet of Advaita Acarya. Unless she
nullifies this offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava, it will not be
possible for her to achieve love of Krsna." Hearing this, all the
devotees went to bring Advaita Acarya there. While coming to see the
Lord, Advaita Acarya was glorifying the characteristics of mother
Sacidevi, and thus upon arriving He fell down on the ground in ecstasy.
Then, under the instruction of Lord Caitanya, Sacidevi took advantage
of this situation to touch Advaita Acarya's lotus feet. Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu was very much pleased by His mother's action, and He said,
"Now My mother's offense at the lotus feet of Advaita Acarya has been
rectified, and she may have love of Krsna without difficulty." By this
example Lord Caitanya taught everyone that although one may be very
much advanced in Krsna consciousness, if one offends the lotus feet of
a Vaisnava his advancement will not bear fruit. We should therefore be
very much conscious not to offend a Vaisnava. Caitanya-caritamrta has
described such an offense as follows:

yadi vaisnava-aparadha uthe hati mata

upade va chinde, tara sukhi' yaya pata

(Cc. Madhya 19.156)

As a mad elephant may trample all the plants in a garden, so by
committing one offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava one may spoil
all the devotional service he has accumulated in his life.

After this incident, one day Advaita Acarya Prabhu requested Caitanya
Mahaprabhu to display the universal form He had very kindly shown
Arjuna. Lord Caitanya agreed to this proposal, and Advaita Prabhu was
fortunate enough to see the universal form of the Lord."



Example 2

KRISHNA BOOK, His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Chapter 8:

"Visions of the Universal Form

Another day, when Krsna and Balarama were playing with Their friends,
all the boys joined Balarama and told mother Yasoda that Krsna had
eaten clay. On hearing this, mother Yasoda caught hold of Krsna's hand
and said, "My dear Krsna, why have You eaten earth in a solitary place?
Just see, all Your friends including Balarama are complaining about
You." Being afraid of His mother, Krsna replied, "My dear mother, all
these boys, including My elder brother Balarama, are speaking lies
against Me. I have never eaten clay. My elder brother Balarama, while
playing with Me today, became angry, and therefore He has joined with
the other boys to complain against Me. They have all combined together
to complain so you will be angry and chastise Me. If you think they are
truthful, then you can look within My mouth to see whether I have taken
clay or not." His mother replied, "All right, if You have actually not
taken any clay, then just open Your mouth. I shall see."

When the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna was so ordered by His
mother, He immediately opened His mouth just like an ordinary boy. Then
mother Yasoda saw within that mouth the complete opulence of creation.
She saw the entire outer space in all directions, mountains, islands,
oceans, seas, planets, air, fire, moon and stars. Along with the moon
and the stars she also saw the entire elements, water, sky, the
extensive ethereal existence along with the total ego and the products
of the senses and the controller of the senses, all the demigods, the
objects of the senses like sound, smell, etc., and the three qualities
of material nature. She also could perceive that within His mouth were
all living entities, eternal time, material nature, spiritual nature,
activity, consciousness and different forms of the whole creation.
Yasoda could find within the mouth of her child everything necessary
for cosmic manifestation. She also saw, within His mouth, herself
taking Krsna on her lap and having Him sucking her breast. Upon seeing
all this, she became struck with awe and began to wonder whether she
were dreaming or actually seeing something extraordinary. She concluded
that she was either dreaming or seeing the play of the illusory energy
of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She thought that she had become
mad, mentally deranged, to see all those wonderful things. Then she
thought, "It may be cosmic mystic power attained by my child, and
therefore I am perplexed by such visions within His mouth. Let me offer
my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead under
whose energy bodily self and bodily possessions are conceived." She
then said, "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, under whose
illusory energy I am thinking that Nanda Maharaja is my husband and
Krsna is my son, that all the properties of Nanda Maharaja belong to me
and that all the cowherd men and women are my subjects. All this
misconception is due to the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord. So let
me pray to Him that He may protect me always."

While mother Yasoda was thinking in this high philosophical way, Lord
Krsna again expanded His internal energy just to bewilder her with
maternal affection. Immediately mother Yasoda forgot all philosophical
speculation and accepted Krsna as her own child. She took Him on her
lap and became overwhelmed with maternal affection. She thus began to
think, "Krsna is not understandable to the masses through the gross
process of knowledge, but He can be received through the Upanisads and
the Vedanta or mystic Yoga system and Sankhya philosophy." Then she
began to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as her own
begotten child."



Example 3

KRSNA BOOK, His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Chapter 7:

"Salvation of Trnavarta

After this incident, when Yasoda once was nursing her child and patting
Him with great affection, there streamed a profuse supply of milk from
her breast, and when she opened the mouth of the child with her
fingers, she suddenly saw the universal manifestation within His mouth.
She saw within the mouth of Krsna the whole sky, including the
luminaries, stars in all directions, the sun, moon, fire, air, seas,
islands, mountains, rivers, forests, and all other movable and
immovable entities. Upon seeing this, mother Yasoda's heart began to
throb, and she murmured within herself, "How wonderful this is!" She
could not express anything, but simply closed her eyes. She was
absorbed in wonderful thoughts. Krsna's showing the universal form of
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even when lying down on the lap of
His mother, proves that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is always
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whether He is manifested as a child
on the lap of His mother or as a charioteer on the Battlefield of
Kuruksetra."



Appendix 2:

Original Complete May 28 1977 Conversation

Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question
concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when
you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second
initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled
up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s).

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes.

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the
initiation and the...

Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should
not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana,
(he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order.

Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who

Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're
officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa to,
whose disciple are they?

Prabhupada: They are his disciple.

Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple.

Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That's clear.

Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer...

Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru.
That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just
see).

Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no
translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving
it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in the
future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that
the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would
the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally see
these translations?

Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly.

Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the
works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If
there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if
it's properly done, the BBT could publish it.

Prabhupada: That we are doing, just like Hindi. We are doing other
languages. If it is properly translated, it can be...

Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated
yourself.

Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation,
another person translating into Hindi or other languages, we are
publishing. Similarly, if somebody has translated properly, it can be
published. But amongst our disciples, I don't think there are many who
can translate properly.

Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not
perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the BBT.
The name BBT means the highest standard right now in the world.

Prabhupada: That is good answer.

Kirtanananda: Therefore, Srila Prabhupada, we think that you cannot
leave us very soon.

Prabhupada: I don't want. But if I am obliged, what can I do?

Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want.

Prabhupada: A realized soul, must be. Otherwise, simply by imitating
A-B-C-D will not help. My purports are liked by people because it is
presented as practical experience. (aside It is within the mouth.

Bhavananda: I'm sorry.

Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument, (laughter) that it must enter into
the mouth. Then it will act. That kind of instrument not required. It
must remain three miles off. Our translation must be documents. They
are not ordinary... One cannot become unless one is very realized. It
is not A-B-C-D translation.

Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship.

Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One
can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he can become guru. Or
one who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he can become
guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums)

Satsvarupa: That's all the questions.

May 28 1977

HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada





Bibliography:

Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's
Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/a2vs

Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva
Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at:
http://www.geocities.com/order108

Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]:
[I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at:

http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev









Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila
Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their
copyright holders.

  #8  
Old February 25th, 2005, 07:15 AM
marc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It seem very odd that this has only come to light now - it has been what? 28 years!

Very odd, indeed.
  #9  
Old February 28th, 2005, 03:02 PM
Ritvik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

marc wrote:
It seem very odd that this has only come to light now - it has been

what? 28 years!

Very odd, indeed.



Download the Opera browser, click www.Opera.com and then the reading on
Google Groups improves, that is if you want to read it only on Google
Groups.

Click www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 and watch the Universal Guru
Form (UGF) and also the different fonts and tones.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comparative French standard of living improvements Earl Evleth Europe 705 August 19th, 2004 03:50 PM
Another Invitation... Circle Line and Universal George Leppla Cruises 0 April 23rd, 2004 01:19 AM
Universal Florida Bill USA & Canada 5 March 29th, 2004 09:03 PM
Universal Studios Dan USA & Canada 0 November 27th, 2003 08:55 AM
Universal Studios (LA) and E.T Dave USA & Canada 2 November 13th, 2003 01:56 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.