Spoilt Brats/Annoying Kids/Etc

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:29:48 -0700, Dairenn Lombard
wrote:

You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies,
toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all.
I really don't have any working theories as to why this is. It's just that, I
first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child...but then, I hear no noise.
It's amazing.

except for singaporian babies......cry like banshees, later they grow
up to be just as loud and crass.......

"Da Parrot-chick" wrote in message link.net...
There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent--it means that reasoning
power has failed. Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back?

There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything." Ha!
Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in
history. That does not mean that I think violence is *good*. I have
the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it's place,
whether dealings are between humans or nations.

Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves
stress. What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood
vessel one fine day?

I'd rather you didn't let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin
in the first place

I'm just drawn that way...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

(Jonathan Smith) wrote in message om...
It takes all kinds. I don't think bad parents are created - I think
they started out as bad humans.

Honestly, I don't know. What I was hoping to communicate, however,
was my belief that yes, bad 'humans' generally are not any better
parents.

How about a rolled-up newspaper
across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do
his bidness?

You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way?
Well shoot - let's just put them in little cages in the hold.

No, but I do think that puppies and small children have about the same
attention span and level of mental acuity relative to an adult of the
same species. What I mean is that 'explaining' why screaming in
public is not a Good Thing to a small child has about the same effect
as 'explaining' to a puppy why they should not poop on the rug. A
quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily
established, however. Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a
stop to that behavior.

I'm not so sure it worked all that well. Look at all the examples of
bad parenting - now think about the role model.

I can't agree - all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were
raised the same way I was) points the other way. That is, my friends
who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good
children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose. I have
personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the
thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters. I
know there is evidence both ways. My gut tells me that spanking is
fine.

Physical punishment I personally find replsive. it certainly is
criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less
criminal if it happens between an adult and a child. Was it "for
their own good"?

The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as
'physical punishment' for their misdeeds. Some even put people to
death. The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it
comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens.
That's hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also
that criminals should not be locked up.

By the same token, parents correct that child's aberrant behavior by
direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially
in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed
lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society.

I'm working in Orange County, CA this week. The two-mile drive to
work is a real experience. Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and
out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds
about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets. And it's not just one or
two of them, it's all of them. Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7
cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop. If
your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across
three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have
here. I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am
referring to in their parental capacity. All about 'me' to hell with
society.

No doubt - but then again, how do you know that this behavior is
exclusive to parents?

Oh, I don't! I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you
own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a
good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are
parents.

Then again, maybe some people are just happier when
they have something to complain about.

I know I certainly am. Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves
stress. What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood
vessel one fine day?

I use other constructive methods to reduce stress. I find hitting
that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever.

I am on the road seven days a week. No time for such things. My
stress reliever is here on r.t.a.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

"The Bill Mattocks" wrote in message
om...

A
quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily
established, however. Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a
stop to that behavior.

While many dog owners will disagree, I don't equate dogs with humans. I do
agree that swatting achild can be a method to stop the immediate
misbehavior, but a side effect of that method is that instead of teaching
respect and discipline, it gives the child fear and hate of the parent. And
once again, what do you do when the kid is too big to hit?

I'm not so sure it worked all that well. Look at all the examples of
bad parenting - now think about the role model.

I can't agree - all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were
raised the same way I was) points the other way. That is, my friends
who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good
children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose. I have
personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the
thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters. I
know there is evidence both ways. My gut tells me that spanking is
fine.

I was spanked as a child and grew up hating my dad behind it. Violence
serves the parent, it doesn't serve the child. I would never hit a child
except if it was a teen with an adult body and mindset (who I didn't know)
and then only in self-defense. More likely, I would just restrain them
(Aikido training).

Physical punishment I personally find replsive. it certainly is
criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less
criminal if it happens between an adult and a child. Was it "for
their own good"?

The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as
'physical punishment' for their misdeeds. Some even put people to
death. The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it
comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens.
That's hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also
that criminals should not be locked up.

Prison guards don't beat the inmates, though. That's called torture and is
against federal law. I'm not saying torture in prison doesn't happen; it
does, just that it's illegal. And I'm against the death penalty, too--too
many innocent people framed by overzealous prosecutors.

By the same token, parents correct that child's aberrant behavior by
direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially
in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed
lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society.

ITA a toddler isn't capable of understanding lectures of acceptable
behavior, but I also maintain that whupping on a child is unacceptable and
incompetent as a remedy.

snip

I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you
own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a
good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are
parents.

I would opine that these people were raised by parents who wouldn't
discipline their children or teach them how to behave in society. You can
teach a child these things without smacking them around IMHO.

Then again, maybe some people are just happier when
they have something to complain about.

I know I certainly am. Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves
stress. What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood
vessel one fine day?

I use other constructive methods to reduce stress. I find hitting
that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever.

I am on the road seven days a week. No time for such things. My
stress reliever is here on r.t.a.

An excellent idea, Bill.

"The Bill Mattocks" wrote in message
om...
"Da Parrot-chick" wrote in message
link.net...
There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a
child.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent--it means that reasoning
power has failed. Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting
back?

There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything." Ha!
Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in
history. That does not mean that I think violence is *good*. I have
the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it's place,
whether dealings are between humans or nations.

Oh, it has its place all right. It can stop a behavior but doesn't actually
fix anything.

Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves
stress. What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood
vessel one fine day?

I'd rather you didn't let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your
skin
in the first place

I'm just drawn that way...

Maybe you need a better paintbrush...

On 9 Oct 2003 08:34:34 -0700, (The Bill
Mattocks) wrote:

My dad's idea of dealing with crying,
carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass,
administered immediately and in public. Amazing how well it worked.

IIRC you have a sibling who didn't grow up as well as you did. Same
upbringing? Not sure what we can conclude from that though.

, Da Parrot-chick wrote:
"The Bill Mattocks" wrote in message
om...


While many dog owners will disagree, I don't equate dogs with humans. I do
agree that swatting achild can be a method to stop the immediate
misbehavior, but a side effect of that method is that instead of teaching
respect and discipline, it gives the child fear and hate of the parent. And
once again, what do you do when the kid is too big to hit?

That's what weapons are for.


Rusty
--
"The common people must have loved God. They made so many of Him."--Peter
DeVries

To get back to the original topic, what to do if a child is screaming/crying
etc. for a long period. Does one ask the parents to control the kid or is it
better to ask a flight attendant or crew member to deal with it?

"Marc 954" -NOSPAM wrote in message
...
To get back to the original topic, what to do if a child is
screaming/crying
etc. for a long period. Does one ask the parents to control the kid or is
it
better to ask a flight attendant or crew member to deal with it?

Complain to the FA. A parent inconsiderate enough to do that isn't going to
respond to a polite request from another passenger.

PTRAVEL wrote:

"Marc 954" -NOSPAM wrote in message
...

To get back to the original topic, what to do if a child is

screaming/crying

etc. for a long period. Does one ask the parents to control the kid or is

it

better to ask a flight attendant or crew member to deal with it?


Complain to the FA. A parent inconsiderate enough to do that isn't going to
respond to a polite request from another passenger.


And what is the FA going to be able to do?