Tipping in USA/Canada

DaveM wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:45:15 +1100, Qanset wrote:


Craig Welch wrote:

Qanset said:

Bit late for that, I was there 20 years ago. I saw a peurto rican
waitress get hostile because a British Visitor forgot to leave her a tip
on the table. Her conduct was absolutely disgraceful.

How did you know her nationality? Did she have a badge?

No she didnt stupid.

You missed a trick. I've seen more than one establishment in Vegas where the
staff name badges included the state or country of origin. Or was the
"stupid" epithet self-deprecatory?

DaveM

Either way, I couldnt give a dam. Your remarks are merely digressing
from the original topic.

John Kulp wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:22:50 +1100, Qanset wrote:

PTravel wrote:
"Qanset" wrote in message
u...
The wife and I are planning at trip to USA/Canada in the near future.
Is it true that the Yanks are really hung up on tipping, and that
FORGETTING to tip someone is courting disaster???

Like most tourists we will be traveling on a limited budget,this means
that anybody expecting free money from us will be advised to look
elsewhere.
With all due respect, I'd suggest you don't come.
Bit late for that, I was there 20 years ago. I saw a peurto rican
waitress get hostile because a British Visitor forgot to leave her a tip
on the table. Her conduct was absolutely disgraceful.

Well, that makes all Americans that way doesn't it?

No it does'nt.


Advice given: change your attitude or stay home.
No way. My wife and I have strict moral guidelines for tipping. we
will NOT be bullied, coerced or manipulated in any way to part with our
hard earned money. From time to time we will offer tips at our own
discretion and we will be answereable to our own conscience and judgment
if we refuse.

What a load of crap. Strict moral guidelines. Then, do tell us just
what you do when you are forced to pay for service in Europe and get
crappy service in return. Do you get up on your great moral haunches
then?

I do understand that Americans depending on tips have been disadvantaged
by substandard work practices by their employers. Having been down that
road previously, I earnestly suggest they find a job where they DONT
rely on tips.

You and the rest of
the world will be a lot happier.
Always been happy wherever I go O/S. As the for the rest of the world
they wont even know who I am.

Sure they will. As soon as you stand up on the table and start giving
your great moral guideline speech about tipping. Just before they
haul you away in a padded truck.

PTravel wrote:

"Qanset" wrote in message
u...
PTravel wrote:

"Qanset" wrote in message
u...
The wife and I are planning at trip to USA/Canada in the near future.
Is it true that the Yanks are really hung up on tipping, and that
FORGETTING to tip someone is courting disaster???

Like most tourists we will be traveling on a limited budget,this
means that anybody expecting free money from us will be advised to
look elsewhere.

With all due respect, I'd suggest you don't come.

Bit late for that, I was there 20 years ago. I saw a peurto rican
waitress get hostile because a British Visitor forgot to leave her a
tip on the table. Her conduct was absolutely disgraceful.

And what's your point? You are aware, however, that there are
approximately 300 million people in the U.S. and, as far as I know,
we're not represented by a Puerto Rican waitress who you encountered 20
years ago.



When I travel
internationally, I buy a guidebook and learn what particular
practices and customs are observed in the locality I'm visiting. I
don't make judgments about them, and definitely do not arrive with a,
"we're superior because we don't do things this way," attitude. I
also don't insist that locals observe my customs.

I don't think you will enjoy international travel,

Wrong again. Have travelled to Twenty countries in the last 30 years

Then you should know better. Perhaps you're one of those unfortunates
that I run into from time to time, complaining how nothing is like it is
at home.

I've posted these before, but I'll do it again. There are three rules I
follow when I travel internationally (and I've been traveling much
longer than you and to far more places):

1. Always remember you're a guest in someone else's country. Act like
a guest and respect the customs, preferences and practices of your hosts.

Ho Hum, you are so patronizing

2. If in doubt, ask rather than assume -- I'd rather appear naive than
rude and offensive.

Ask about what.

3. Err on the side of generosity -- it is better to pay too much than
too little, tip high rather than low, etc.

Getting blood from a stone, would be a truer statement.

You've violated all three rules and, as a result, you've already
offended a number of Americans and you haven't even gotten here yet.


and I certainly don't
think you'll enjoy the U.S. Everyone will probably be better off if
you just stay home.


A colleague of mine who honeymooned in Hawaii was told by a tour bus
operator, that he EXPECTED gratuities for his efforts, because his job
was poorly paid. What more can I say.???

I think you've said quite enough. Incidentally, being sheparded
around on a tour bus is probably the worst way to visit a foreign
county.

Yes and No. Tours offer a tourist with no local knowledge to see
sights with guidance of a professional tour guide. They tend to lack
flexibility sometimes, but can be good value for others.

Bus tours offer a tourist the opportunity to be completely isolated from
the culture that they're supposedly there to experience. If all you
want to do when you travel is "see sights" then, by all means, take a
bus tour. That is, certainly, why some people travel but you won't come
away with any understanding of the people or the cultural aesthetic of
the country that you've come to visit.



I'm going to cop a lot of flak on this subject, but never mind I
have and open mind on accepting advice on World Travel.

Advice given: change your attitude or stay home.

No way. My wife and I have strict moral guidelines for tipping. we
will NOT be bullied, coerced or manipulated in any way to part with
our hard earned money. From time to time we will offer tips at our own
discretion and we will be answereable to our own conscience and
judgment if we refuse.

I'm curious. Have you ever visited a strict Muslim country? When you
do, does your wife dress modestly, or do your strict moral guidelines
preclude respecting someone else's beliefs and customs? Have you ever
been to France? Do you always say, "bonjour" to the shopkeeper when you
enter a shop, or do your strict moral guidelines preclude honoring one
of the most fundamental tenets of courtesy in a French society? Have
you ever been to China or Japan? When you go and someone offers you a
business card, do your strict moral guidelines require that you just
stuff it in your pocket or do you take it with both hands and read it
politely, so as not to give offense? Ever been to Italy? Do your strict
moral guidelines allow you to wear shorts and your wife to wear
sleeveless dresses when you visit the great cathedrals?

I'm very curious about your "strict moral guidelines." What is the
source of a morality that says being disrespectful and judgmental when
you're a guest in another culture is acceptable?



I do understand that Americans depending on tips have been
disadvantaged by substandard work practices by their employers. Having
been down that road previously, I earnestly suggest they find a job
where they DONT rely on tips.

You don't understand anything about American workers who depend on
tips. I earnestly suggest that, rather than project your values and
beliefs on the rest of the world, you accept that other cultures have
different values and beliefs that, frequently, may conflict with your own.


You and the rest of
the world will be a lot happier.

Always been happy wherever I go O/S. As the for the rest of the world
they wont even know who I am.

Oh, but they will -- they will know you as the "rude [I'm going to guess
from your screen name] Australian." And for those foreigners who have
had limited contact with Australians, they will judge Australia and all
Australians by your actions. Like it or not, we are all de facto
ambassadors for our countries when we travel internationally. By
deliberately ignoring the customs and practices of the countries that
you visit, you are setting a very poor example for your own and one by
which your fellow countrymen will be judged.

Martin D. Pay wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:52:37 -0800, "PTravel"
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

"Qanset" wrote in message
u...
snip reasoned and intelligent reply

OP is a troll. And an Australian. It's not worth feeding him.

Martin D. Pay
Not always comfortable with the 'tipping' part of traveling in
the US. But it's the custom and culture of the country so I do as
the locals do. It's only polite...

Your remark is the most intelligent, but brief and to the point.
I dont mind tipping if I am given good service. But as I explained
earlier I will NOT be bullied , coerced or manipulated into tipping.

Even when I have toured some of the Asian countries, I have been more
than happy to give money to the poor and the homeless. Being a bad
tipper does not stop me from being to charitable to those who need it
the most.

DaveM wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:52:37 -0800, "PTravel"
wrote:

Oh, but they will -- they will know you as the "rude [I'm going to guess
from your screen name] Australian." And for those foreigners who have had
limited contact with Australians, they will judge Australia and all
Australians by your actions. Like it or not, we are all de facto
ambassadors for our countries when we travel internationally. By
deliberately ignoring the customs and practices of the countries that you
visit, you are setting a very poor example for your own and one by which
your fellow countrymen will be judged.

Agreed, but being a bad tipper is NOT offensive behaviour.

That's my philosophy, too. Unfortunately, bad behaviour isn't always
accurately attributed - I'm commonly mistaken for an antipodean in the
States, and that's happened to a lot of fellow Brit's, too. If the same
confusion occurs with a true Australian accent he may just end up
reinforcing the stereotype of the British as bad tippers.

DaveM

Qanset wrote:
Craig Welch wrote:

(Dennis P. Harris) said:

i can only speak to my experience in britain and france. i have
been told that italians still tip. even if they aren't
compulsory, i have always found that a little extra to the staff
always ensured special treatment, except in NZ & oz, where folks
would be insulted if you offered a gratuity. since my kiwi
friends had warned me about this, i never made that mistake.


Heh. Some joke they chose to lump you with.
In Australia and NZ, tipping is certainly not mandatory; but no
waiter is ever 'insulted' by a tip. He is, naturally, grateful.


Here in Aus, tips are appreciated, NOT expected. I worked part time
as a barman and other times as a taxi driver. Tips were few and far
between. Thats our culture, its what were used to.



How much above minimum wage do you make as a bartender?

Craig Welch wrote:

Qanset said:



Bit late for that, I was there 20 years ago. I saw a peurto rican
waitress get hostile because a British Visitor forgot to leave her a tip
on the table. Her conduct was absolutely disgraceful.


How did you know her nationality? Did she have a badge?


People of all nationalities exhibit bad behavior. Why did you single out
her as a "peurto rican"?
In any case, was she hovering over the table waiting for a tip?

I am generally long gone before my few cents is discovered for bad
service. For bad service, tip a few cents, so they don't think you
forgot to leave a tip.

Jan wrote:

Qanset wrote:

Dennis P. Harris wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:29:14 +1100 in rec.travel.air, Qanset
wrote:


I'm going to cop a lot of flak on this subject, but never mind I
have and open mind on accepting advice on World Travel.

if you have an open mind, the usual gratuity for good service is
15 per cent of the tab. it does not apply in fast food places


where you take your own food to the table.


Thats exactly what I intend to do.




My sister whilst on holiday in Florida, visited a totally self service
buffet.
Upon reaching the till to pay - at this point all she and her family had
were the empty trays on which to place their food. - She was asked if she
wanted "the tip" added to her bill !!!!


Yeah, it's kind of like the tip jar at Starsucks.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:02:51 +1100, Qanset wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:52:37 -0800, "PTravel"
wrote:

Oh, but they will -- they will know you as the "rude [I'm going to guess
from your screen name] Australian." And for those foreigners who have had
limited contact with Australians, they will judge Australia and all
Australians by your actions. Like it or not, we are all de facto
ambassadors for our countries when we travel internationally. By
deliberately ignoring the customs and practices of the countries that you
visit, you are setting a very poor example for your own and one by which
your fellow countrymen will be judged.

Agreed, but being a bad tipper is NOT offensive behaviour.

Bzzzzzt! Sorry, but you don't get to decide that - if your behaviour
offends, it's offensive*.

DaveM

*By definition:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/offensive

DaveM wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:45:15 +1100, Qanset wrote:



Craig Welch wrote:


Qanset said:


Bit late for that, I was there 20 years ago. I saw a peurto rican
waitress get hostile because a British Visitor forgot to leave her a tip
on the table. Her conduct was absolutely disgraceful.


How did you know her nationality? Did she have a badge?


No she didnt stupid.


You missed a trick. I've seen more than one establishment in Vegas where the
staff name badges included the state or country of origin. Or was the
"stupid" epithet self-deprecatory?

DaveM

They get to choose the location they want to be "from" on the name tags.