Mayor of London says Bush is 'greatest threat to life on planet'

Olivers writes
The DA of santa barbara County is elected by the voters of the county
and has no/zero/nill connection with the California Governor's office.

You mean they don't all belong to the same Masonic lodge?
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Simon Elliott muttered....

I wasn't there, and I don't know for sure. I'm intrigued enough by
this to have emailed the Met to ask how they count crowds of people.
If the answer appears on their FAQ page, I'll post the URL.


From long experience with police crowd estimates.....

....But granting that the Met may not be subject to some/all of the
political common to US law enforcement agencies.

Neither success nor lack of success at "crowd management" has much to do
with police crowd estimates, only that the numbers be estimated to be large
enough to justify the allocation of resources and to support claims for
more money and (wo)manpower in the emergency appropriation/next budget
cycle.

Police are no more objective than reporters, in fact, likely to be less
objective since they have aa vested interest in the outcome.

Would you accept a sort of a general (but modest) conclusion which seems to
have semerged in "main line" US television networks (Fox on the far right,
CNN's international service about as left as US media perspectives get -
which may not be far) that the 'crowds" of demonstrators fell far short of
"advertised" projections, and that even the largest of the demos (over the
crowd size of which we may debate) was hardly the grand finale projected.

Aside....

Last night's TV news was citing a _Guardian_ poll in which support for some
facet of the Iran/Bush/US business had climbed to 66% in the UK. A
_Guardian_ poll?

Simon Elliott muttered....

Olivers writes
The DA of santa barbara County is elected by the voters of the county
and has no/zero/nill connection with the California Governor's office.

You mean they don't all belong to the same Masonic lodge?

I doubt Arnold's a Mason, being from Austria and having a spouse who is a
member of what maybe the US's most prominent RCatholic family.

Besides, Masons don't have near the clout they used to, even in Southern
states (and declining numbers pretty much everywhere).

TMO

Olivers writes
Olivers writes
The DA of santa barbara County is elected by the voters of the county
and has no/zero/nill connection with the California Governor's office.

You mean they don't all belong to the same Masonic lodge?

I doubt Arnold's a Mason, being from Austria and having a spouse who is a
member of what maybe the US's most prominent RCatholic family.

If we're talking about conspiracy theories, masons and the Roman
Catholic church, we almost _have_ to mention the persistent allegations
re P2, the Vatican bank and the assassination of Pope John Paul I.

Besides, Masons don't have near the clout they used to, even in Southern
states (and declining numbers pretty much everywhere).

I'm afraid I was being facetious. I wasn't aware that freemasonry was
ever prevalent in the US, but no discussion of conspiracy is complete
without a mention of the masons.

If I was going to advance a conspiracy theory on the arrest of Michael
Jackson, I'd suggest that the DA did it to earn brownie points with
somebody. But I'm too clueless on the nuances and details of political
life in the US to have any opinion on this. It could be a lot like the
various theories that Dr. David Kelly was liquidated by a UK government
agency: these all seem a bit less credible from close up.

But we do love our conspiracy theories. This week there's a program on a
UK TV channel on the subject of the assassination of JFK. If puts
forward the controversial theory that (shock, horror) there was no
conspiracy; it was all the work of Lee Harvey Oswald.
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

JF Mezei trolled:

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Subject: Livingston Mayor of London says Bush is 'greatest threat
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Olivers wrote:
Had I been a terrorist, especially of the emotionally convicted bent of the
ben Ladenites, the biggest demonstration certainly would have seemed a
gigantically attractive target,

Not when the demonstrators are on your side, protecting against the ilks of
Bush and Bliar.

Clearly, particvipation or non-participation in the War on Terror (or
actions against Iraq)

The two are totally unrelated. The only relationship is that after 9-11,
Bush
Jr handed control from Powel to the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz who quickly
put
in place plans to implement their "new american century" policies to
discredit
the UN, and show that the USA was the true leader of the world by using its
muscle (military) to invade some middle east country.

Problem is that the rest of the world is seing a really stupid USA that
misuses its force.


As for CNN's estimate, most 'Merkins would claim that CNN is the most
"Anti-American" of available news sources

What would be the definition of "pro-american" ? Doesn't it all come down
on
whether a media outlet is pro or against Rumsfeld ? (Doesn't it all hinge
on
whether a media outlet shows only the good things of the Iraq invasion or
one
which allows criticism of that invasion ?

CNN seems to be very much pro Rumsfeld compared to the other large media
outlets of the world.

unlabeled,glaringly obvious. If Fox has estimated 35,000, I'd be doubtful.

FOX is to TV news what the National Enquirer is to print. It is not seen as
a
credible source of information even if many americans believe what it says.

related bands UK operatives/affiliates. Were I a betting man, I'd pick
Rome and Cairo as upcoming target sites.

Cairo opposed the invasion of Iraq. Rome didn't.

However, I think that Athens would be a target that could have very serious
consequences. They *hope* to have completed their olympic facilities just
in
time for next summer's olympics. A bomb in the construction sites could set
their schedule off enough to cause havok at the olympics.

Olivers writes
From long experience with police crowd estimates.....

...But granting that the Met may not be subject to some/all of the
political common to US law enforcement agencies.

Neither success nor lack of success at "crowd management" has much to do
with police crowd estimates, only that the numbers be estimated to be large
enough to justify the allocation of resources and to support claims for
more money and (wo)manpower in the emergency appropriation/next budget
cycle.

Police are no more objective than reporters, in fact, likely to be less
objective since they have aa vested interest in the outcome.

Would you accept a sort of a general (but modest) conclusion which seems to
have semerged in "main line" US television networks (Fox on the far right,
CNN's international service about as left as US media perspectives get -
which may not be far) that the 'crowds" of demonstrators fell far short of
"advertised" projections, and that even the largest of the demos (over the
crowd size of which we may debate) was hardly the grand finale projected.

I'll wait till I have some more information before I comment on this.

Aside....

Last night's TV news was citing a _Guardian_ poll in which support for some
facet of the Iran/Bush/US business had climbed to 66% in the UK. A
_Guardian_ poll?

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/...087545,00.html

The bit I find most interesting is:

"The ICM poll also uncovers a surge in pro-war sentiment in the past two
months as suicide bombers have stepped up their attacks on western
targets and troops in Iraq. Opposition to the war has slumped by 12
points since September to only 41% of all voters. At the same time those
who believe the war was justified has jumped 9 points to 47% of voters."

Is a similar shift happening in the US?
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Simon Elliott muttered....



Is a similar shift happening in the US?

Mildly and minimally, with a few point swing in the polls, although
continuing US casualties seem to be an obstacle to much greater "mood
switch". meanwhile, US polls, which show Bush in a dead heat with an
unmamed Democrat candidate, however, show him soundly thumping any named
candidate from the current entries (plus Madame DeFarge/Clinton).

As an old Marketing Man (from the age when polls and marketing were
considered divinely inspired avenues to corporate success), let me assure
you that "objective" and "poll" or "survey" should never be used in the
same sentence. Even the altering of word order in poll question can
dramatically change the results, and every survey inevitably reflects the
perspective of the instigator or preparers. I simply don't place much
reliance on poll results unless I've had a chance to see the questions and
determine how they were asked.

TMO

Olivers writes
As an old Marketing Man (from the age when polls and marketing were
considered divinely inspired avenues to corporate success), let me assure
you that "objective" and "poll" or "survey" should never be used in the
same sentence. Even the altering of word order in poll question can
dramatically change the results, and every survey inevitably reflects the
perspective of the instigator or preparers. I simply don't place much
reliance on poll results unless I've had a chance to see the questions and
determine how they were asked.

From the BBC series "Yes Prime Minister"

Sir Humphrey: "You know what happens: nice young lady comes up to you.
Obviously you want to create a good impression, you don't want to look a
fool, do you? So she starts asking you some questions: Mr. Woolley, are
you worried about the number of young people without jobs?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Do you think there is a lack of discipline in our
Comprehensive schools?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Do you think young people welcome some authority and
leadership in their lives?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Do you think they respond to a challenge?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Would you be in favour of reintroducing National
Service?"

Bernard Woolley: "Oh...well, I suppose I might be."

Sir Humphrey: "Yes or no?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Of course you would, Bernard. After all you told you
can't say no to that. So they don't mention the first five questions and
they publish the last one."

Bernard Woolley: "Is that really what they do?"

Sir Humphrey: "Well, not the reputable ones no, but there aren't many of
those. So alternatively the young lady can get the opposite result."

Bernard Woolley: "How?"

Sir Humphrey: "Mr. Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Are you worried about the growth of armaments?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Do you think there is a danger in giving young people
guns and teaching them how to kill?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Do you think it is wrong to force people to take up arms
against their will?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?"

Bernard Woolley: "Yes"

Sir Humphrey: "There you are, you see Bernard. The perfect balanced
sample."

--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Simon Elliott muttered....

snip-ped, but not because of the lack of significance of the content.

Well writ (or remembered), Sir.