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"No Fly List" - is a net to supress voice???



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 4th, 2004, 12:27 AM
Kari Sinhalavan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Matt" wrote in message ...
"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote in message
om...
I Got Trapped in the Secret 'No Fly List' of the Transportation
Security Administration
by Sachi Sri Kantha


http://www.sangam.org/articles/view2...96 9d7bc24f9a


I admit to not knowing the answer to this question, but are foreign airlines
somehow required to use the no-fly list? If JAL doesn't use it then I
assume the other airlines are using it voluntarily. In which case Mr.
Kantha's complaint should be solely with the airline. It sounds like
Alitalia went as far as to notify the local police of his presence. Strange
story, at least he kept the America bashing to a minimum.

Also, is there an international no-fly list maintained by Interpol, or
similar agency. Or is the only no fly list maintained by the TSA?

Obviously the whole idea of a no-fly list needs some work to protect the
innocent. But its a no-win situation for law enforcement and airlines. If
a known terrorist got on a plane and tried to blow it up and we didn't have
a no-fly list, the same people that complain about the no-fly list would
complain that the airline let a known terrorist on the plane.


Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list. How
come Professor Kantha's name went into that list? Is it because of US
or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his name on the TSA
list?? I know Professor Kantha worked in US as well as Japan. At the
same time he is very vocal about Sri Lankan government genocide
against Tamils. I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation. If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US?? Moron Bush is painting
everybody's arse with the same brush. It is like accusing Canada for
letting 9/11 attackers but all of them came to US straight from
obtaining visa from US embassy. If you can't do the job don't blame
others and put others in hardship like Professor Kantha. You are not
making friends.

Matt

  #12  
Old September 4th, 2004, 01:26 AM
Matt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote in message
om...
"Matt" wrote in message

...
"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote in message
om...
I Got Trapped in the Secret 'No Fly List' of the Transportation
Security Administration
by Sachi Sri Kantha



http://www.sangam.org/articles/view2...96 9d7bc24f9a


I admit to not knowing the answer to this question, but are foreign

airlines
somehow required to use the no-fly list? If JAL doesn't use it then I
assume the other airlines are using it voluntarily. In which case Mr.
Kantha's complaint should be solely with the airline. It sounds like
Alitalia went as far as to notify the local police of his presence.

Strange
story, at least he kept the America bashing to a minimum.

Also, is there an international no-fly list maintained by Interpol, or
similar agency. Or is the only no fly list maintained by the TSA?

Obviously the whole idea of a no-fly list needs some work to protect the
innocent. But its a no-win situation for law enforcement and airlines.

If
a known terrorist got on a plane and tried to blow it up and we didn't

have
a no-fly list, the same people that complain about the no-fly list would
complain that the airline let a known terrorist on the plane.


Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list. How
come Professor Kantha's name went into that list? Is it because of US
or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his name on the TSA
list?? I know Professor Kantha worked in US as well as Japan. At the
same time he is very vocal about Sri Lankan government genocide
against Tamils. I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation. If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US?? Moron Bush is painting
everybody's arse with the same brush. It is like accusing Canada for
letting 9/11 attackers but all of them came to US straight from
obtaining visa from US embassy. If you can't do the job don't blame
others and put others in hardship like Professor Kantha. You are not
making friends.


You had me until the Bush bashing, which taints your argument. From what
you're saying, it is the Sri Lankan government that's probably responsible
for putting him on the list. And yet you don't place any blame on Alitalia
(for reporting him to the local police), Singapore Airlines (for not letting
him board), the local police in Italy for arresting him without cause, or
the SriLankan government for abusing the list for political reasons (if
that's what happened). Why do that when you can just blame Bush....nice
try.

I'm not defending the way the system currently works. As I said before, I
think it needs fixing. But, in general, I think it's a good idea to keep
track of when terrorists and suspected terrorists get on a plane.

Matt




  #13  
Old September 4th, 2004, 01:26 AM
Matt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote in message
om...
"Matt" wrote in message

...
"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote in message
om...
I Got Trapped in the Secret 'No Fly List' of the Transportation
Security Administration
by Sachi Sri Kantha



http://www.sangam.org/articles/view2...96 9d7bc24f9a


I admit to not knowing the answer to this question, but are foreign

airlines
somehow required to use the no-fly list? If JAL doesn't use it then I
assume the other airlines are using it voluntarily. In which case Mr.
Kantha's complaint should be solely with the airline. It sounds like
Alitalia went as far as to notify the local police of his presence.

Strange
story, at least he kept the America bashing to a minimum.

Also, is there an international no-fly list maintained by Interpol, or
similar agency. Or is the only no fly list maintained by the TSA?

Obviously the whole idea of a no-fly list needs some work to protect the
innocent. But its a no-win situation for law enforcement and airlines.

If
a known terrorist got on a plane and tried to blow it up and we didn't

have
a no-fly list, the same people that complain about the no-fly list would
complain that the airline let a known terrorist on the plane.


Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list. How
come Professor Kantha's name went into that list? Is it because of US
or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his name on the TSA
list?? I know Professor Kantha worked in US as well as Japan. At the
same time he is very vocal about Sri Lankan government genocide
against Tamils. I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation. If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US?? Moron Bush is painting
everybody's arse with the same brush. It is like accusing Canada for
letting 9/11 attackers but all of them came to US straight from
obtaining visa from US embassy. If you can't do the job don't blame
others and put others in hardship like Professor Kantha. You are not
making friends.


You had me until the Bush bashing, which taints your argument. From what
you're saying, it is the Sri Lankan government that's probably responsible
for putting him on the list. And yet you don't place any blame on Alitalia
(for reporting him to the local police), Singapore Airlines (for not letting
him board), the local police in Italy for arresting him without cause, or
the SriLankan government for abusing the list for political reasons (if
that's what happened). Why do that when you can just blame Bush....nice
try.

I'm not defending the way the system currently works. As I said before, I
think it needs fixing. But, in general, I think it's a good idea to keep
track of when terrorists and suspected terrorists get on a plane.

Matt




  #14  
Old September 4th, 2004, 03:27 AM
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Matt wrote:

Has any "terrorist" anywhere been caught by the no fly list?


We have no way of knowing that. I'm sure that info would not be
released to the public.


We have an administration in Washington that broadcasts everything and
anything that can be construed as a victory on the War On Terror
(tm). The sting a year or so ago against some guy (russian) who was
going to barter some arms deal (dirty bomb components?). The very
minute the sting went down we were hearing about it on the evening
news. The preditor drone that took out some Bad Guys (tm) somewhere a
year or so ago - we heard about it (shouldn't have - that's top secret
technology - but no, the white-house needs the press).

This white house desperately needs to make some Bad Guys do the perp
walk on the evening news, with Ashcroft and Ridge doing a joint press
conference (praised be Bush). They will waste not a minute if the no
fly list actually nabs a real threat.

What if a suspected terrorist got on a plane tomorrow without
using a fake ID and took it hostage. Would you not be upset
that there was no system in place to prevent suspected
terrorists from flying? I bet you would. You can't have it
both ways.


As someone else said, it's not the person that boards a plane, but
what they bring with them. So no, I wouldn't be upset if a
"terrorist" got on a plane. In contrast, I'm mildly upset (and over
time, increasingly so) that the average cabin full of passengers WILL
NOT KNOW how to deal with the next hijacking incident because

1) there is nothing new in the pre-take-off announcements or messages
that tell people what is expected of them in the case of a threat to
the plane caused by a fellow passenger.

2) the cowards in the Whitehouse and FAA have never said publically
what airline passengers should do if a hijacking should ever happen
again.

The single largest asset a cabin full of passengers has to insure
their own safety and that of the plane since 9-11 is their collective
ability to know and understand how to react during a hijacking
situation. One week after 9-11 I'm sure they all knew. One year?
One decade? You tell me.

And I'll tell you something else. If your name was on the no fly
list, I'd bet you wouldn't be singing the same praise for the list as
you are now.

Two more things:

1) Why does the FBI post their "most wanted" list in public? If they
do that, why can't the no fly list be posted in public? Are those
people on the NFL *really wanted* on arrest warrents, or do we just
want to make their life hell and relagate them to taking Amtrak or
Greyhound instead of United? How do you feel that the gov't can keep
such a list and compel private corporations to discriminate against
those people (who could be US Citizens) without legal recourse?
What's next - a "no car-rent list" ? A "no credit-card list" ? A "no
mortgage list" ?

2) Why not go further. If the people on the NFL are so bad, and must
be aprehended at all cost, then why not force the credit-card
companies to divulge the names and addresses of anyone with a similar
name, and alert the FBI when-ever those people make a transaction.
Those people could be hunted down in a second IF THE GOV'T REALLY
WANTED THOSE PEOPLE.

IF THE GOV'T REALLY WANTED TO GET THOSE NFL PEOPLE THEN THEIR NAMES
AND PICTURES WOULD BE POSTED IN EVERY AIRPORT, POSTOFFICE AND
BUS/TRAIN STATION. THAT'S WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU WANT TO CAPTURE
SOMEONE. YOU TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT.
  #15  
Old September 4th, 2004, 03:27 AM
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Matt wrote:

Has any "terrorist" anywhere been caught by the no fly list?


We have no way of knowing that. I'm sure that info would not be
released to the public.


We have an administration in Washington that broadcasts everything and
anything that can be construed as a victory on the War On Terror
(tm). The sting a year or so ago against some guy (russian) who was
going to barter some arms deal (dirty bomb components?). The very
minute the sting went down we were hearing about it on the evening
news. The preditor drone that took out some Bad Guys (tm) somewhere a
year or so ago - we heard about it (shouldn't have - that's top secret
technology - but no, the white-house needs the press).

This white house desperately needs to make some Bad Guys do the perp
walk on the evening news, with Ashcroft and Ridge doing a joint press
conference (praised be Bush). They will waste not a minute if the no
fly list actually nabs a real threat.

What if a suspected terrorist got on a plane tomorrow without
using a fake ID and took it hostage. Would you not be upset
that there was no system in place to prevent suspected
terrorists from flying? I bet you would. You can't have it
both ways.


As someone else said, it's not the person that boards a plane, but
what they bring with them. So no, I wouldn't be upset if a
"terrorist" got on a plane. In contrast, I'm mildly upset (and over
time, increasingly so) that the average cabin full of passengers WILL
NOT KNOW how to deal with the next hijacking incident because

1) there is nothing new in the pre-take-off announcements or messages
that tell people what is expected of them in the case of a threat to
the plane caused by a fellow passenger.

2) the cowards in the Whitehouse and FAA have never said publically
what airline passengers should do if a hijacking should ever happen
again.

The single largest asset a cabin full of passengers has to insure
their own safety and that of the plane since 9-11 is their collective
ability to know and understand how to react during a hijacking
situation. One week after 9-11 I'm sure they all knew. One year?
One decade? You tell me.

And I'll tell you something else. If your name was on the no fly
list, I'd bet you wouldn't be singing the same praise for the list as
you are now.

Two more things:

1) Why does the FBI post their "most wanted" list in public? If they
do that, why can't the no fly list be posted in public? Are those
people on the NFL *really wanted* on arrest warrents, or do we just
want to make their life hell and relagate them to taking Amtrak or
Greyhound instead of United? How do you feel that the gov't can keep
such a list and compel private corporations to discriminate against
those people (who could be US Citizens) without legal recourse?
What's next - a "no car-rent list" ? A "no credit-card list" ? A "no
mortgage list" ?

2) Why not go further. If the people on the NFL are so bad, and must
be aprehended at all cost, then why not force the credit-card
companies to divulge the names and addresses of anyone with a similar
name, and alert the FBI when-ever those people make a transaction.
Those people could be hunted down in a second IF THE GOV'T REALLY
WANTED THOSE PEOPLE.

IF THE GOV'T REALLY WANTED TO GET THOSE NFL PEOPLE THEN THEIR NAMES
AND PICTURES WOULD BE POSTED IN EVERY AIRPORT, POSTOFFICE AND
BUS/TRAIN STATION. THAT'S WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU WANT TO CAPTURE
SOMEONE. YOU TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT.
  #16  
Old September 4th, 2004, 04:19 AM
Lee Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In which case Mr. Kantha's complaint should be solely with the airline.

The airline of Singapore Airlines, AND the US Transportation Security
Administation, AND the airline of Alitalia, AND the Italian police
force.


Anybody know what his name happens to be on such a list?
Anybody know whether someone with the same name is or is not a terrorist?
Anybody know whether the writer of the shared document is or is not a
terrorist?
Anybody know that the report that was posted actually happened?
Anybody think that it might be nice to have the answers to these questions
before blaming anybody?

Lee


  #17  
Old September 4th, 2004, 04:19 AM
Lee Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In which case Mr. Kantha's complaint should be solely with the airline.

The airline of Singapore Airlines, AND the US Transportation Security
Administation, AND the airline of Alitalia, AND the Italian police
force.


Anybody know what his name happens to be on such a list?
Anybody know whether someone with the same name is or is not a terrorist?
Anybody know whether the writer of the shared document is or is not a
terrorist?
Anybody know that the report that was posted actually happened?
Anybody think that it might be nice to have the answers to these questions
before blaming anybody?

Lee


  #18  
Old September 4th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Lee Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote

First of all, who are you and why should we believe that somebody that
admits to being a sexual abuser of animals?

Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list.


That's because it's a US list.

How come Professor Kantha's name went into that list?


Good question. Why don't you ask him?

Is it because of US or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his

name on the TSA
list??


You think maybe the US cares enough about this guy to add his name to the
list of thousands we already have to keep an eye our for . . . just because
they can?

I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation.


There was no accusation.
You don't know that there is not good reason for the name on the list.
There may, in fact, be more than one person with the same name somewhere in
the world.
You don't even know that the guy that the posting was about doesn't deserve
to be on the list.

You want to know about the list, file a freedom of information request with
the government.

If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US??


The people that financed and carried out the events of 9-11-01 were good
residents until they killed a **** load of US Citizens. BTW, your buddy
isn't a US Citizen. He may have been a resident.

Lee


  #19  
Old September 4th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Lee Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote

First of all, who are you and why should we believe that somebody that
admits to being a sexual abuser of animals?

Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list.


That's because it's a US list.

How come Professor Kantha's name went into that list?


Good question. Why don't you ask him?

Is it because of US or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his

name on the TSA
list??


You think maybe the US cares enough about this guy to add his name to the
list of thousands we already have to keep an eye our for . . . just because
they can?

I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation.


There was no accusation.
You don't know that there is not good reason for the name on the list.
There may, in fact, be more than one person with the same name somewhere in
the world.
You don't even know that the guy that the posting was about doesn't deserve
to be on the list.

You want to know about the list, file a freedom of information request with
the government.

If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US??


The people that financed and carried out the events of 9-11-01 were good
residents until they killed a **** load of US Citizens. BTW, your buddy
isn't a US Citizen. He may have been a resident.

Lee


  #20  
Old September 4th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Lee Bell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Kari Sinhalavan" wrote

First of all, who are you and why should we believe that somebody that
admits to being a sexual abuser of animals?

Matt, you didn't get the point. It is US that control TSA list.


That's because it's a US list.

How come Professor Kantha's name went into that list?


Good question. Why don't you ask him?

Is it because of US or Sri Lankan government using dirty tricks to put his

name on the TSA
list??


You think maybe the US cares enough about this guy to add his name to the
list of thousands we already have to keep an eye our for . . . just because
they can?

I just want to know who maintain that list and who
else have influence to force US government to enter somebody's name on
false accusation.


There was no accusation.
You don't know that there is not good reason for the name on the list.
There may, in fact, be more than one person with the same name somewhere in
the world.
You don't even know that the guy that the posting was about doesn't deserve
to be on the list.

You want to know about the list, file a freedom of information request with
the government.

If his name is entered in TSA list then how come he
is a good citizen while he is in US??


The people that financed and carried out the events of 9-11-01 were good
residents until they killed a **** load of US Citizens. BTW, your buddy
isn't a US Citizen. He may have been a resident.

Lee


 




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