Tips on living in Germany

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:54:02 +0100, Martin wrote in post :
:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:59:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 26, 12:47*pm, "tim....." wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 7:44 am, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:



wrote
:

Useful to people planning to stay:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/Germany.html

From the website:

Housing

If you rent an entire apartment, rather than a room, be
forewarned that appliances are the renters' property, not the
landlord's.

Not necessarily. Typically the oven, the kitchen sink and the interiors
of the bathroom are provided by the landlord.

-----snipped--------------

Typically, you must supply the whole kitchen, including appliances,
countertops and cabinetry, and almost all lighting within the
apartment, and in Germany lighting isn't inexpensive like in the US.
Then when you move, all must come out, another waste of time and
money.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------

What do you mean isn't inexpensive? *Does your Ikea ramp up the prices then?
I can buy lighting in the UK for about 4.99 a fitting (decorative type,
about 1.99 for a plain fitting), how you can call this expensive, I don't
know.

tim

For the most part, there are few inexpensive places to buy lighting
fixtures in Germany, unlike a US do-it-yourself store. At a lighting
store you will be hard pressed to find anything at what I would call a
reasonable price. Fairly simple lighting fixtures can easily run way
over a 100€.

OTOH most German beer is good quality and a reasonable price.

So if we factor in the price of a light fitting in the UK, add to that the
price of beer drunk over the light-fitting's lifetime, then do the same
with a German light-fitting. Well I bet we've made a hell of a saving by
living in Germany. Multiply that by the total number of new light-fittings
you'll have to buy for your German flat and bingo! You bank manager will
love you!
--
Tim C.

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
wrote in
:

Useful to people planning to stay:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/Germany.html

From the website:

Housing

If you rent an entire apartment, rather than a room, be
forewarned that appliances are the renters' property, not the
landlord's.

Not necessarily. Typically the oven, the kitchen sink and the interiors
of the bathroom are provided by the landlord.

Do you live in Germany? An unfurnished flat normally has no fixtures
beyond what is built into the building - meaning the bathroom.
Sometimes smaller apartments have a built-in kitchen, but that is
rather the exception.
If you move into a flat that was previously occupied, you can often
buy the kitchen off the previous tenant- but not always. The kitchen
belongs to the tenant, and the landlord can insist that he removes it
when he vacates the flat.


Internet

If you are told you need to set that up yourself, no problem.
There are two kinds of access that I've seen in German homes:
* ISDN
* Modem

ADSL and internet by cable are widespread.

several companies that offer that and once you give them the OK,
they will begin charging your phone bill for usage. It's generally
pretty cheap.

ISDN and modems are to be avoided as you pay at least the cost of a
local call which is metered by the minute. If you like to stay online
for long periods, it's definitely not cheap. ADSL is.

Phones

Cell phones in Germany are, in my limited experience, expensive.

Even though they are much cheaper than in the US. You can set up an
account for a small fee or free. Handsets come with the account or are
cheap. With many contracts, the monthly minimum charge is small or nil.

They charge the caller a lot and the recipient of a cell phone
call nothing.

Yes. But that is not the main point. The minimum cost of owning a
mobile phone at all is much lower.

Shopping
Der Nepp = the rip-off

Be warned that rip-offs aren't labelled accordingly.

Credit cards

Credit cards are a relatively new concept in Germany. They were
introduced in the early 2000s

Complete nonsense. Credit cards were introduced in the 1950s as in the
rest of Western Europe. But they have never been widely used. But debit
cards issued by your bank are very popular.

The CCs were subject to banking restrictions for a long time that made
them unpopular. In particular, there is no rolling credit allowed, and
generally they were only accepted as payment in places like hotels and
restaurants, but this has changed in recent years.

and their use goes against German
cultural norms of good planning and frugality. Personally
I think the cards should be banned.

Mxsmanic, is that you?

wrote:
On Feb 26, 12:47 pm, "tim....." wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Feb 26, 7:44 am, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:



wrote
:
Useful to people planning to stay:
http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/Germany.html
From the website:
Housing
If you rent an entire apartment, rather than a room, be
forewarned that appliances are the renters' property, not the
landlord's.
Not necessarily. Typically the oven, the kitchen sink and the interiors
of the bathroom are provided by the landlord.
-----snipped--------------

Typically, you must supply the whole kitchen, including appliances,
countertops and cabinetry, and almost all lighting within the
apartment, and in Germany lighting isn't inexpensive like in the US.
Then when you move, all must come out, another waste of time and
money.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------

What do you mean isn't inexpensive? Does your Ikea ramp up the prices then?
I can buy lighting in the UK for about 4.99 a fitting (decorative type,
about 1.99 for a plain fitting), how you can call this expensive, I don't
know.

tim

For the most part, there are few inexpensive places to buy lighting
fixtures in Germany, unlike a US do-it-yourself store. At a lighting
store you will be hard pressed to find anything at what I would call a
reasonable price. Fairly simple lighting fixtures can easily run way
over a 100€.

George

That depends where you buy stuff. You can get cheap lighting fittings at
a DIY store, no problem.
OBI, Toom, Hornbach Baumarkt . . .

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:35:29 +0100, Martin wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:44:39 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:



Complete nonsense. Credit cards were introduced in the 1950s as in the
rest of Western Europe. But they have never been widely used. But debit
cards issued by your bank are very popular.

Something to do with the Dutch & Germans not liking to pay through the nose for
using their own money.

That's the thing (compared with the UK, for instance) - many German
c/cs have an annual fee.

Got mine from Gebührenfrei:

http://www.gebuhrenfrei.com/



Keith (formerly of Bristol UK)
now moved to Berlin/nach Berlin umgezogen

Keith Anderson:

That's the thing (compared with the UK, for instance) - many German
c/cs have an annual fee.

Got mine from Gebührenfrei:
http://www.gebuhrenfrei.com/

How does Gebührenfrei.com do business? Is it the high rates they get on
not timely payed amounts, or what?

--
Erick

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:
Tom P wrote in
:

If you rent an entire apartment, rather than a room, be
forewarned that appliances are the renters' property, not the
landlord's.
Not necessarily. Typically the oven, the kitchen sink and the
interiors of the bathroom are provided by the landlord.

Do you live in Germany? An unfurnished flat normally has no fixtures
beyond what is built into the building - meaning the bathroom.

Perhaps I misunderstood what "fixtures" means, that is what I meant.

Sometimes smaller apartments have a built-in kitchen, but that is
rather the exception.

I have never seen a flat that didn't have a kitchen sink and electrical
or gas oven provided by the landlord. But everything else has to be
bought by the tenant.

Credit cards are a relatively new concept in Germany. They were
introduced in the early 2000s
Complete nonsense. Credit cards were introduced in the 1950s as in
the rest of Western Europe. But they have never been widely used. But
debit cards issued by your bank are very popular.

The CCs were subject to banking restrictions for a long time that made
them unpopular. In particular, there is no rolling credit allowed,

What does that mean?

By rolling credit, I mean that that only a part of the balance has to be
settled every month. The remainder is charged interest.
T.


and
generally they were only accepted as payment in places like hotels and
restaurants, but this has changed in recent years.

Another obstacle was the fact that credit cards used to be issued to
people with very good credit ratings and very high incomes only. People
with only average salaries would not even have been considered. That
has changed since the 1990s, nowadays almost anyone can get a credit
card.

Martin wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:41:18 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis
-o-m wrote:

Keith Anderson:

That's the thing (compared with the UK, for instance) - many German
c/cs have an annual fee.

Got mine from Gebührenfrei:
http://www.gebuhrenfrei.com/
How does Gebührenfrei.com do business? Is it the high rates they get on
not timely payed amounts, or what?

Sollzins, Einkäufe (Teilzahlung, ab 17,9% p.a. Effektivzins*) pro Monat 1,38 %
Sollzins, Bargeld (25,9% p.a. Effektivzins) pro Monat 1,94 %

Probably )
That is the difference to most big bank credit cards in Germany, which
usually require the balance to be settled in full every month.
The other way to get a free credit card is to operate a huge monthly
turnover, business travel costs and so on.

T.

Martin wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:37:51 +0100, Tom P wrote:

Martin wrote:
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:41:18 +0100, Erick T. Barkhuis
-o-m wrote:

Keith Anderson:

That's the thing (compared with the UK, for instance) - many German
c/cs have an annual fee.

Got mine from Gebührenfrei:
http://www.gebuhrenfrei.com/
How does Gebührenfrei.com do business? Is it the high rates they get on
not timely payed amounts, or what?
Sollzins, Einkäufe (Teilzahlung, ab 17,9% p.a. Effektivzins*) pro Monat 1,38 %
Sollzins, Bargeld (25,9% p.a. Effektivzins) pro Monat 1,94 %

Probably )
That is the difference to most big bank credit cards in Germany, which
usually require the balance to be settled in full every month.

That's the way Amex operated when I had one. Profit made from the large amount
they charge the retailer 5%.

However you can collect brownie points with them. My wife got enough
together to pay for a pile of clothes at a store recently.
T.

Wolfgang Schwanke:
Erick T. Barkhuis -o-m wrote in
:

Keith Anderson:

That's the thing (compared with the UK, for instance) - many German
c/cs have an annual fee.

Got mine from Gebührenfrei:
http://www.gebuhrenfrei.com/

How does Gebührenfrei.com do business? Is it the high rates they get on
not timely payed amounts, or what?

The main source of revenue for credit card companies is actually the
surcharge they receive from merchants on every sale, which is
calculated as a percentage of the payment.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

To prevent merchants from circumventing this charge, the contract
says they're not allowed to price goods differently if paid by CC card,

But...don't airlines (like Ryanair) charge additionally for credit card
use?
And I've seen signs at fuel stations, saying that they would charge 50
cents or so, if the customer wants to use debit/credit card and the
total amount is less than 15 euros.


--
Erick

Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

[]
The main source of revenue for credit card companies is actually the
surcharge they receive from merchants on every sale, which is
calculated as a percentage of the payment. That way the CC company gets
their share on the entire turnover as long as it's paid via credit
card. To prevent merchants from circumventing this charge, the contract
says they're not allowed to price goods differently if paid by CC card,
and they must accept the credit card if the customer wants to use one.

I suspect this rule is very weak now, as airlines have long since been
able to charge different prices depending on the type of card used to
pay for flights...

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle (RIP 2009)