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39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 8th, 2007, 07:25 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
George Graves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:11:00 -0700, Matthew L. Martin wrote
(in article ):

George Graves wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote (in article
om):

Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org


OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.


That is not what the US Constitution says. It says:

the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United
States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and
conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and
misdemeanors.


"high crimes and misdemeanors" means whatever a majority of the House of
Representatives says it means (See: impeachment of Bill Clinton).


I'm not going to get sucked-in to this argument again, but Clinton was
impeached because he committed perjury before a grand jury - a felony in
every court in the country. The part that shows that this system works is
that the impeachment failed because of the extenuating circumstances.

  #12  
Old July 8th, 2007, 07:26 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
George Graves
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:09:36 -0700, James wrote
(in article .com):

On Jul 7, 7:03 pm, Sparrow wrote:
39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.
Read all about it, hehttp://Muvy.org


The linked article says, "Americans under 30 are far more supportive
of impeachment than their elders. Among those youngest adults, 56%
believe the President should be impeached and removed from office."
America has a bright future. Our youth is smarter and wiser than the
older generation.


They just don't know (or seem to care about) the law. I wouldn't gloat about
that were I you.

  #13  
Old July 8th, 2007, 08:31 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
sharx35
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Posts: 803
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.


"George Graves" wrote in message
. net...
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:09:36 -0700, James wrote
(in article .com):

On Jul 7, 7:03 pm, Sparrow wrote:
39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.
Read all about it, hehttp://Muvy.org


The linked article says, "Americans under 30 are far more supportive
of impeachment than their elders. Among those youngest adults, 56%
believe the President should be impeached and removed from office."
America has a bright future. Our youth is smarter and wiser than the
older generation.


They just don't know (or seem to care about) the law. I wouldn't gloat
about
that were I you.


Agreed. On average, the YOUNGER, the stupider and more ignorant and NAIVE a
person is. Minimum age to vote should be 35.



  #14  
Old July 8th, 2007, 08:35 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
ZnU
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

In article ,
George Graves wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote
(in article om):

Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org


OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.


Wikipedia has a nice list of potential charges:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...Bush#Rationale
s_for_impeachment

The ones that potentially involve explicit violations of US law:

1) Warrantless surveillance (violates FISA).
2) Violations of the UN Charter (remember, treaties are US law).
3) Violations of the Geneva Convention (ditto).
4) Commuting Libby's sentence (if done to prevent Libby from turning
state's evidence, it represents obstruction of justice).
5) Politicization of the United States attorney offices, in a scheme
possibly involving voter suppression and a subsequent coverup.
6) Signing statements (the executive is not allowed to rewrite laws).

As of this week, you'll almost certainly be able to add to that
willfully ignoring subpoenas lawfully issued by the US Congress.

If the political will was there to impeach, any of the above could serve
as a constitutionally valid justification. Remember, impeachment doesn't
function according to a "reasonable doubt" standard; it functions
according to whatever standard Congress wants.

[snip]

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006
  #15  
Old July 8th, 2007, 09:55 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Wes Newell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 07:31:38 +0000, sharx35 wrote:

Agreed. On average, the YOUNGER, the stupider and more ignorant and NAIVE a
person is. Minimum age to vote should be 35.


Add to that an IQ over 130. And to run, over 140. Disallow all but
individual contributions. A line item veto fro both the pres and the
house. I would say shoot all crooked officials but then there would be no
one to run the country. Yeah, it's gotten almost that bad.

--
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  #16  
Old July 8th, 2007, 10:17 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Matthew L. Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

George Graves wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:11:00 -0700, Matthew L. Martin wrote
(in article ):

George Graves wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote (in article
om):

Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org

OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.

That is not what the US Constitution says. It says:

the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United
States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and
conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and
misdemeanors.�

"high crimes and misdemeanors" means whatever a majority of the House of
Representatives says it means (See: impeachment of Bill Clinton).


I'm not going to get sucked-in to this argument again, but Clinton was
impeached because he committed perjury before a grand jury - a felony in
every court in the country.


The only offenses specifically called out in the Constitution are, as
stated above:

Treason -- Clearly defined in the Constitution
Bribery -- Selling the power of the president

Note: Getting caught in a perjury trap is not specified.

All other High Crimes and Misdemeanors are not defined. They are,
indeed, whatever a majority of the House of Representatives say they
are. In Bill Clinton's case, the House said that perjury is an
impeachable offense and impeached him. The Republican Senate declined to
convict. The fact that they couldn't muster a bare majority was a
message to the House: Get Real.

The part that shows that this system works is
that the impeachment failed because of the extenuating circumstances.


Yes. I find it amazing that so many "law and order" conservative thing
that Scooter Libby was persecuted and that the millions spent trying to
find something, anything, to impeach Bill Clinton was money and time
well spent.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
  #17  
Old July 8th, 2007, 10:19 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Matthew L. Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

Sparrow wrote:
Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org


One reason not to do this: Dick Cheney.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
  #18  
Old July 8th, 2007, 11:32 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Tim Adams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

In article ,
George Graves wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote
(in article om):

Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org


OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law. You can't impeach a
president because you disagree with his policies. What we need in this
country is a recall procedure where the people can vote "no confidence" to a
sitting administration like they do in Great Britain. Then, the president
doesn't need to be guilty of a crime, he just needs to not please the
citizenry with his policies.


The problem with that is every other month there would be an election since no
president seem to last any longer then that before some vocal group disagree
with their policies.

--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
  #19  
Old July 8th, 2007, 02:13 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Thumper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 277
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:25:10 -0700, George Graves
wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:11:00 -0700, Matthew L. Martin wrote
(in article ):

George Graves wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:03:32 -0700, Sparrow wrote (in article
om):

Read all about it, he http://Muvy.org


OK, I'm all for it. What are the charges? Remember, these have to be
legitimate charges, instances where he broke US law.


That is not what the US Constitution says. It says:

the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United
States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and
conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and
misdemeanors.


"high crimes and misdemeanors" means whatever a majority of the House of
Representatives says it means (See: impeachment of Bill Clinton).


I'm not going to get sucked-in to this argument again, but Clinton was
impeached because he committed perjury before a grand jury -


No he didn't.



a felony in
every court in the country. The part that shows that this system works is
that the impeachment failed because of the extenuating circumstances.



He was found NOT GUILTY!
Thumper
  #20  
Old July 8th, 2007, 02:22 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,alt.true-crime,alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.divx,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Dr zara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default 39% of Americans believe Bush should be impeached.


"James Davis" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 7, 9:34 pm, George Graves wrote:
What we need in this
country is a recall procedure where the people can vote "no confidence"
to a
sitting administration like they do in Great Britain.


Right now about 30% of Americans are very happy with President Bush,
who was elected by a 51% majority. While I personally believe he's a
moron, there is no rule that says it's undemocratic for a president to
only please 30% of the population. There could be some time in the
future where angering 70% of the population is the right thing to do.
If you had to please the majority of people, then we wouldn't even
elect presidents. We would just vote on issues and the majority vote
would decide what to do.

It would be unfair to the 30% of Americans who like Bush to impeach
him unless he has done something illegal. He won the vote, so he is
the president. Besides, he doesn't have any power to do anything that
70% of Congress disagrees with. If his actions are so bad, they can
be democratically overridden by others.

You can't just do away with the rules of democracy because they are
giving you the results you want.


Bush is hoping that History will "exonerate" him. Unfortunately, he's going
to have to live out the rest of his life with the knowledge that he was the
Worst, ****ing Asshole President, this country ever had.


 




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