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  #11  
Old October 29th, 2007, 12:12 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Icono Clast
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 631
Default Fire!

memiki wrote:
Icono Clast wrote:
the Idiot in the White House
my disgust at your referring to the President as an "idiot"


How would you characterize him?

on a forum that is read internationally.


On a public forum that is read internationally, I would
characterize him as being a disappointment


If that works for you, fine. But he's not been a disappointment to
me. He has surpassed my expectations. You have no idea how much I
wish he had been an extreme disappointment.

I would not name-call, gloat, or go digging for old dirt for
personal satisfaction........


I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat.

Years ago I wrote a post explaining that it's incumbent upon us
citizens of the USA to demonstrate to those in other countries
that we really do have the rights our Constitution says we do.
There are other constitutions around the world that have the
words but not the effect.


Phooey!!!!!!


Here's one of several:

From: Icono Clast Date: 27 September 1999
Subject: Six Flags over Texas Gay Day.
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster

Parklinks wrote:
Chris Kearsing wrote:
Until they get butt raped by the priests who haven't had sex in
40 years.

Funny, Chris, how other people's bigotry and hate speech are
bigotry and hate speech, but your bigotry and hate speech is
protected free speech...


Read The Constitution! It's all protected speech. In fact, the more
offensive it is, the more bigoted it is, the more hateful it is, the
stronger the protection provided by the First Amendment!
All proper thinking people should frequently bow down to
thank the Founding Fathers for the Bill of Rights and the independent
judiciary that has done more than just about anything to make this
country, even with all the things wrong with it, the great place it
is today.

Try having an ICQ conversation with someone who lives in Malaysia or
China or other such countries. They will say to you that they are
afraid to talk about certain things, answer certain questions.

Cold War joke:
Citizen of USA says to USSR citizen "We have the right to
criticize our president". Soviet citizen replies: "So do we have the
right to criticize your president".
###

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #12  
Old October 29th, 2007, 09:23 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Fire!

On Oct 27, 4:00?am, Icono Clast wrote:
At the time of the Cedar Fire, I think, someone posted that the Idiot
in the White House had withdrawn expenditures to clear brush that
might have reduced the severity of that fire. I couldn't find the
post but I found some other stuff. The words might've been written a
few years ago but . . .

Here are some excerpts from relevant articles:

http://www.pe.com/breakingnews/local...cal_fund16.ecb...

CALIFORNIA OFFICIALS SAY BUSH IGNORED FIRE DANGER
OCTOBER 31, 2003 -- SACRAMENTO, CA: Ousted California Gov. Gray
Davis and state legislators are accusing the Bush administration of
ignoring urgent pleas made months ago for emergency funding to clear
beetle-killed trees that experts warned could fuel a catastrophic
southern California fire. In April, Davis requested $430 million to
reduce fuels on 415,000 acres of forest, but the request for
emergency funds went unanswered until last week -- and then was denied.

"There was a reason the governor requested the declaration," said
Davis staffer Steve Maviglio. "And I'm sure there are a lot of
families without homes that are disappointed it wasn't approved."
The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Sen. Barbara Boxer
yesterday complained that President Bush had failed to act on the
state's request for help and that now Californians were suffering.
"We named three of the four counties that are up in smoke, and we
begged him to declare a disaster, we begged him," she said. "We saw
this coming a mile away."

FIRESTORMS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
OCTOBER 30, 2003 -- LAKE ARROWHEAD, CA: Firefighters are struggling
to save emptied-out resort towns in the San Bernardino Mountains,
with 200-foot walls of fire washing over stands of drought-ravaged
bug-killed trees, stoked by Santa Ana winds from the desert to the east.

10:36 PM PDT on Saturday, May 15, 2004
By CLAIRE VITUCCI / Washington Bureau
. . . At a congressional hearing in Washington last week, Bruce
Turbeville, chairman of the California Fire Safe Council, complained
that local communities had submitted 393 requests for grants worth
$49 million to clear brush, but received only $7 million . . . John
Twiss, an assistant to Agriculture Undersecretary Mark Rey, said the
Forest Service is shifting funds from private and state lands to
federal lands that are adjacent to private, state and county property
to protect neighboring communities . . . Meanwhile, Pollema said
she's been scouring the Internet for grant possibilities and said the
community is likely going to have to start holding fund-raisers.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/opinion/...PE_OpEd_Opinio...
Parched for fire help
. . . Federal officials have earmarked no disaster money for tree and
brush removal in the forest, though forest officials have $5 million
in other funding secured by Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Redlands. That is
enough to tend about 2,000 acres of the roughly 672,000-acre forest . . .

http://www.wildfirenews.com/archive/120103.shtml
DOES SAN DIEGO COUNTY NEED A FIRE DEPARTMENT?
DECEMBER 01, 2003 -- SAN DIEGO, CA: San Diego County, which for
decades has been the only large California county without its own
fire department, is rethinking that position in the aftermath of the
Cedar Fire . . . November 26, 2003 . . . The fire-charred hills look
like graveyards of gnarled limbs and blackened dirt. "The soils in
southern California are very erosive," says Matt Mathes with the U.S.
Forest Service. "They fall down the slopes even naturally, and when
they get a lot of water on them, they tend to erode very readily in
the best of times. With the vegetation burned away, there's nothing
to hold the soil" . . .

CALIFORNIA FIRE LOSSES OVER $2 BILLION
NOVEMBER 19, 2003 -- SAN DIEGO, CA: Early estimates of $2 billion in
property damage have been verified by industry sources, according to
a North County Times report; the Cedar Fire in San Diego County and
the Old Fire near San Bernardino together accounted for at least
3,300 burned structures. The figures don't include all of the fire
damage in San Diego County, nor are fires in Los Angeles and Ventura
counties included in the estimate.

Some sources said the figure could run $2.5 billion to as much as $3
billion in insured losses; Robert Hartwig, chief economist of the
Insurance Information Institute, also has pegged the insured losses
for the two fires at $2.04 billion, and has said the number could
rise to $2.3 billion. Nearly 13,000 claims for damage have been
filed, and the policies represent a total coverage limit of just
under $3.5 billion.

Other disasters in California have cost more. The insured loss for
the Northridge earthquake in 1994 exceeded $12 billion, six times the
estimate for the Cedar and Old fires. As California fires go, the
champion for damage remains the blaze that engulfed San Francisco
after the 1906 earthquake. Total damage estimates for the San
Francisco fire approach $6 billion after adjusting for a century of
inflation, but most of that loss was uninsured.

RUIDOSO: THINGS LOOK DIFFERENT HERE
NOVEMBER 17, 2003 -- RUIDOSO, NM: . . . Homeowners and builders are
increasingly being told to protect themselves. Building codes are
being changed to require more fire-resistant construction materials,
and insurance companies are encouraging policyholders to make homes
safer or risk losing coverage.

But few communities have taken as comprehensive an approach as
Ruidoso. Two years ago the U.S. Forest Service designated the town as
the second-most-vulnerable community in the nation, based on forest
density and the mingling of homes and wildland. The village has
focused on public education and warning systems; emergency evacuation
routes are well marked with signs, and a "reverse 911" telephone
warning system can automatically notify hundreds of residents in just
minutes. New construction must adhere to a code requiring good access
for fire equipment, adequate water for firefighting, and
fire-resistant building materials.

Most important, Ruidoso crafted a comprehensive plan to thin forests
on its outskirts and on private land within town.

SAN DIEGO FLOODING FIXES IN THE WORKS
NOVEMBER 15, 2003 -- SAN DIEGO, CA: Erosion control experts from
local, state, and federal government agencies, along with a host of
volunteer workers, are preparing for mudslides and flooding after the
fires. The potential for heavier-than-usual runoff from rocky slopes
has had dozens of specialists out in the burned areas figuring how to
keep what's left from washing away. The Cedar and Paradise Fires
stripped many slopes of vegetation, and twice as much storm water
than normal could end up flowing down hillsides.

RESIDENTS WARNED ABOUT FLOODING
NOVEMBER, 2003 -- SUMMIT VALLEY, CA: As the residents who were
evacuated from the area of the Old Fire return to their homes and
resume their lives, federal and county officials are warning about
the possibility of mudslides and flooding . . .

THIS PLACE CALLED SOUTH OPS
NOVEMBER, 2003 -- SAN BERNARDINO
While turf battles and minor spitfights are still common, it's a lot
better than it was in 1961. That year, a firestorm swept through Bel
Air and Brentwood and destroyed more than 2,000 homes. The chaos that
year showed that fire agencies were working at cross purposes.

From: Icono Clast
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 03:16:05 -0700
Subject: Four questions for Mr Bush

Last week, I thought I couldn't possibly think less of that
despicably arrogant and incompetent son of Connecticut aristocracy.
This week, I'm seething to a self-damaging obsession. When Governor
George Wallace was shot, I had to force myself to say "That's no way
to do politics". Well, it might now be a way to help save the people
of Iraq, New Orleans, the USA, and the planet.

Pat Roberson? Are you there? What does "Take Him Out" mean? What I
mean is get him out of office any way necessary.

From: Icono Clast
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:31:03
Subject: OT: Political

wrote:
So, is this whole thing going to be blamed on the Governor because
it will be argued that "I need everything you have got" was not a
"specific" enough request?


That's virtually identical to my hypothetical Presidential order:
"Get down there to do anything you can with everything you have".

John Wheaton wrote:
From CNN Producer Mike M. Ahlers
Saturday, September 3, 2005; Posted: 6:09 a.m. EDT (10:09 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nine stockpiles of fire-and-rescue equipment
strategically placed around the country to be used in the event of
a catastrophe still have not been pressed into service in New
Orleans, five days after Hurricane Katrina, CNN has learned.
Responding to a CNN inquiry, Department of Homeland Security
spokesman Marc Short said Friday the gear has not been moved
because none of the governors in the hurricane-ravaged area has
requested it.


Where the **** is the humanity?!? You need ORDERS to go save lives?!?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/0...ear/index.html


--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


Setting aside President Bush, the response of California government at
all levels has been quite good. Democrats and Republicans at state
and local levelsfunctioned together to expedite resource availability,
and our terrific and brave firefighters worked (and are still working)
tirelessly to fight the blazes.

Comparisons to Katrina are grossly unfair, as the scope of that
disaster was far greater. Nonetheless, in this case, California
government has worked, and worked well, so far.

David Koppelman

  #13  
Old October 30th, 2007, 06:26 AM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default Fire!

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:55:27 -0700, memiki
wrote:

On Oct 27, 4:00 am, Icono Clast wrote:
At the time of the Cedar Fire, I think, someone posted that the Idiot
in the White House had withdrawn expenditures to clear brush that
might have reduced the severity of that fire. I couldn't find the
post but I found some other stuff. The words might've been written a
few years ago but . . .


Ike -- I tried to ignore your post without a response but, as you can
see, I was not successful. I am not here to argue the articles you
dragged up or the mentality, character or deeds of President Bush --
just to express my disgust at your referring to the President as an
"idiot" on a forum that is read internationally.


Are you thinking that perhaps the feeling that Bush is an "idiot"
isn't a feeling in other countires?



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #14  
Old October 30th, 2007, 06:30 AM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default Fire!

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:06:03 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

memiki wrote:
[In 1961] methinks most, if not all, insurance companies covering
BelAir property stipulated in order to be covered the homes had to
be rebuilt on the same property....so there was not much of a
choice. I don't know if this policy is still in effect


Let's hope not.

Those who suffered loss who are not permitted to rebuild will lose
the value of their lot. The lot might be worth nothing today but
could've been worth a fortune yesterday. 'Tis truly a tragedy.


On the other hand, it is hard to feel a great deal of sympathy
for those who build on the banks of rivers and lose their shirts
when the river floods, and it is hard to feel sorry for those who
build wooden houses on hillsides of the type that have a long
history of catching fire. In either case any fool should know
that it is a case of not "if", but "when".


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #15  
Old October 30th, 2007, 09:01 AM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
memiki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Fire!

Icono Clast wrote:
At the time of the Cedar Fire, I think, someone posted that the
Idiot
in the White House........

Miki replied:
Ike -- I tried to ignore your post without a response but, as you can
see, I was not successful. I am not here to argue the articles you
dragged up or the mentality, character or deeds of President Bush --
just to express my disgust at your referring to the President as an
"idiot" on a forum that is read internationally.

Ike replied:
How would you characterize him?
on a forum that is read internationally.

Miki replied:
On a public forum that is read internationally, I would
characterize him as being a disappointment and that I disagree with
how he has
handled some issues.........

I would not name-call, gloat, or go digging for
old dirt for personal satisfaction.

Ike replied:
I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat.
If that works for you, fine. But he's not been a disappointment to
me. He has surpassed my expectations......... You have no idea how
much I
wish he had been an extreme disappointment.
I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat

Miki replied:
You live to gloat..........from Webster's: to observe or think about
something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction,
gratification, or delight-gloat over an enemy's misfortune.

Why are you digging up all those old posts? Are they worth having a
second, maybe third time around.?

Miki












the Idiot in the White House
my disgust at your referring to the President as an "idiot"


How would you characterize him?


on a forum that is read internationally.


On a public forum that is read internationally, I would
characterize him as being a disappointment

I would not name-call, gloat, or go digging for old dirt for
personal satisfaction........
If that works for you, fine. But he's not been a disappointment to
me. He has surpassed my expectations. You have no idea how much I
wish he had been an extreme disappointment.



I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat.



  #16  
Old October 30th, 2007, 11:57 AM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
memiki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Fire!

On Oct 29, 11:30 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:06:03 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

memiki wrote:
[In 1961] methinks most, if not all, insurance companies covering
BelAir property stipulated in order to be covered the homes had to
be rebuilt on the same property....so there was not much of a
choice. I don't know if this policy is still in effect


Let's hope not.


Those who suffered loss who are not permitted to rebuild will lose
the value of their lot. The lot might be worth nothing today but
could've been worth a fortune yesterday. 'Tis truly a tragedy.


On the other hand, it is hard to feel a great deal of sympathy
for those who build on the banks of rivers and lose their shirts
when the river floods, and it is hard to feel sorry for those who
build wooden houses on hillsides of the type that have a long
history of catching fire. In either case any fool should know
that it is a case of not "if", but "when".

On the other hand, I DON'T find it hard to feel a great deal of
sympathy for those "fools" who have lost their homes and personal
property.

On the other hand, any "fool should know that it is a case of not
"if", but "when" every day of his/her life.

Miki

  #17  
Old October 30th, 2007, 12:37 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Icono Clast
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 631
Default Fire!

This post looks like a forgery, Miki. Is it?

memiki wrote:
Icono Clast wrote:
At the time of the Cedar Fire, I think, someone posted that the
Idiot
in the White House........

Miki replied:
Ike -- I tried to ignore your post without a response but, as you can
see, I was not successful. I am not here to argue the articles you
dragged up or the mentality, character or deeds of President Bush --
just to express my disgust at your referring to the President as an
"idiot" on a forum that is read internationally.

Ike replied:
How would you characterize him?
on a forum that is read internationally.

Miki replied:
On a public forum that is read internationally, I would
characterize him as being a disappointment and that I disagree with
how he has
handled some issues.........

I would not name-call, gloat, or go digging for
old dirt for personal satisfaction.

Ike replied:
I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat.
If that works for you, fine. But he's not been a disappointment to
me. He has surpassed my expectations......... You have no idea how
much I
wish he had been an extreme disappointment.
I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat

Miki replied:
You live to gloat..........from Webster's: to observe or think about
something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction,
gratification, or delight-gloat over an enemy's misfortune.

Why are you digging up all those old posts? Are they worth having a
second, maybe third time around.?

Miki












the Idiot in the White House
my disgust at your referring to the President as an "idiot"
How would you characterize him?
on a forum that is read internationally.
On a public forum that is read internationally, I would
characterize him as being a disappointment

I would not name-call, gloat, or go digging for old dirt for
personal satisfaction........
If that works for you, fine. But he's not been a disappointment to
me. He has surpassed my expectations. You have no idea how much I
wish he had been an extreme disappointment.



I wouldn't, and think I don't, gloat.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #18  
Old October 30th, 2007, 04:52 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Fire!

On Oct 29, 11:30?pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:06:03 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

memiki wrote:
[In 1961] methinks most, if not all, insurance companies covering
BelAir property stipulated in order to be covered the homes had to
be rebuilt on the same property....so there was not much of a
choice. I don't know if this policy is still in effect


Let's hope not.


Those who suffered loss who are not permitted to rebuild will lose
the value of their lot. The lot might be worth nothing today but
could've been worth a fortune yesterday. 'Tis truly a tragedy.


On the other hand, it is hard to feel a great deal of sympathy
for those who build on the banks of rivers and lose their shirts
when the river floods, and it is hard to feel sorry for those who
build wooden houses on hillsides of the type that have a long
history of catching fire. In either case any fool should know
that it is a case of not "if", but "when".

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *


One can have human sympathy for people whose homes are destroyed while
still opposing governmental subsidies to people seeking to build, or
rebuild, homes in high fire areas or flood plains. It is just a
matter of simple human decency.

  #19  
Old October 30th, 2007, 05:13 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default Fire!

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:45:30 -0500, "Frank F. Matthews"
wrote:



Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:06:03 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:


memiki wrote:

[In 1961] methinks most, if not all, insurance companies covering
BelAir property stipulated in order to be covered the homes had to
be rebuilt on the same property....so there was not much of a
choice. I don't know if this policy is still in effect

Let's hope not.

Those who suffered loss who are not permitted to rebuild will lose
the value of their lot. The lot might be worth nothing today but
could've been worth a fortune yesterday. 'Tis truly a tragedy.


On the other hand, it is hard to feel a great deal of sympathy
for those who build on the banks of rivers and lose their shirts
when the river floods, and it is hard to feel sorry for those who
build wooden houses on hillsides of the type that have a long
history of catching fire. In either case any fool should know
that it is a case of not "if", but "when".


However, it is also not unreasonable to describe as an idiot an
administrator who cuts funding for brush clearance projects. There are
lots of idiots involved. Unfortunately one of them runs (perhaps) the
executive branch of our government.


You raise an interesting philosophical point: should the
government, and the taxpayer, supply protection for those who
foolishly choose to live in hazardous locations, or is it their
own responsibility?

Should you and I pay for the improvement of the levees at New
Orleans in order that the people can move back to await the next
time?

Should you and I pay for brush clearance programs in areas of
(largely expensive) homes built among the trees and brush of
notoriously combustible California hillsides? And what shall you
and I do for those that survived when the denuded hillsides begin
to slide downhill after the rains, as they also notoriously do?

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #20  
Old October 30th, 2007, 05:20 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default Fire!

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:52:52 -0700, wrote:

On Oct 29, 11:30?pm, Hatunen wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:06:03 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

memiki wrote:
[In 1961] methinks most, if not all, insurance companies covering
BelAir property stipulated in order to be covered the homes had to
be rebuilt on the same property....so there was not much of a
choice. I don't know if this policy is still in effect


Let's hope not.


Those who suffered loss who are not permitted to rebuild will lose
the value of their lot. The lot might be worth nothing today but
could've been worth a fortune yesterday. 'Tis truly a tragedy.


On the other hand, it is hard to feel a great deal of sympathy
for those who build on the banks of rivers and lose their shirts
when the river floods, and it is hard to feel sorry for those who
build wooden houses on hillsides of the type that have a long
history of catching fire. In either case any fool should know
that it is a case of not "if", but "when".


One can have human sympathy for people whose homes are destroyed while
still opposing governmental subsidies to people seeking to build, or
rebuild, homes in high fire areas or flood plains. It is just a
matter of simple human decency.


There is a certain baseline stupidity to building on hillsides
that are notorious for catching fire, especially given the value
of most of those homes. There are construction techniques that
could vastly reduce the damage to individual structures so the
question is: why weren't they used?

Virtually every community in the country now has Special Flood
Hazard Area maps showing the areas of likely 100-year flooding,
and flood insurance is available. Real estate professionals are
mostly required to point out if a structure being sold is in one
of these area. Some Special Flood Hazard Areas are not
particulary noticeable as such, but anyone building near stream
which is known to flood periodically is simply a fool.

In the past economic necessity forced people to put towns on the
banks of rivers because the rivers were the transportation
lifeline, but this is no longer necessary, at least for
residences.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 




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