A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied

Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time.

However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not
lived in the US or established residency in a particular
state.

Earl

*****





A right to vote: Many U.S. youths abroad are denied

Meg Bortin/IHT
, March 9, 2004

*
PARIS Many overseas Americans - possibly thousands - may not be able to vote
in this year's presidential election because of an omission during the
latest round of U.S. electoral reform, according to U.S. officials and
organizations representing Americans abroad.

Left out of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 were young Americans who have
never lived in the United States but who do have U.S. citizenship through an
American parent.

While some states allow these youths to register at the voting address of
their parents, more than three-quarters of the states do not, leaving a
significant slice of U.S. citizens abroad effectively disfranchised as they
come of age.

"There is no federal legislation on this at present," said Polli Brunelli,
director of the Federal Voting Assistance Program. "The states are the ones
who administer elections. They pass the laws on voting."

Twelve states allow Americans who have always resided abroad and are
children of U.S. citizens to use a parent's voting address, Brunelli said in
a telephone interview from Washington. The states are Delaware, Georgia,
Hawaii, Iowa, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island,
Tennessee, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

As for the 38 other states, voting advocates say that the rules are diverse
- so diverse, in fact, that it is not clear whether some states even address
the issue of foreign-born and raised children of U.S. citizens.

So if the parents are registered in one of those 38 states, will first-time
overseas voters be able to cast ballots in the Nov. 2 election?

"That's what they have to find out," said Glenn Flood, a spokesman for the
U.S. Defense Department, which runs the Federal Voting Assistance Program.
"They have to submit their application to register, and the state will tell
them what the stipulations are."

The number of young voters who may be unable to exercise their right to vote
is unknown, Flood said by telephone from Washington, because "we don't track
U.S. citizens overseas."

There is no precise count of Americans abroad, although a U.S. census
experiment is under way in three countries - France, Kuwait and Mexico - as
a prelude to possibly including overseas citizens in the next full U.S.
census in 2010.

Estimates vary. According to Flood, potential voters overseas - civilians,
military forces and their families - number six million. Organizations
representing Americans abroad put the number of civilians overseas at 4.1
million.

Of those, the number who have always lived abroad and have turned 18 since
the last presidential election in 2000 - when overseas absentee ballots
became an issue in the Bush-Gore count - is unknown.

"There could be thousands in that category," said Lucy Laederich, a
Paris-based nonpartisan advocate for overseas Americans. "But of course
we'll never know until we're counted in the census."

Barbara Stern, the Paris-based voting director of the Association of
Americans Resident Overseas, said that many people had been asking this year
about how to register their children.

"The problem about Americans overseas is that the numbers are wildly
uncertain and nobody has cared," she said. "Now, with the interest in
overseas voting, and increasing numbers of absentee overseas voters, there
is interest in Washington in trying to identify who we are."

How much interest is open to question, however. When the U.S. Congress
tackled election reform in the wake of the problems encountered in the
Bush-Gore contest in 2000, "overseas voters were not even included in the
Senate bill" until the day before its passage, when Senator John
Rockefeller, Democrat of West Virginia, introduced an amendment, Laederich
said.

Rockefeller and two New York congressmen, Representatives Tom Reynolds,
Republican, and Carolyn Mahoney, Democrat, had sponsored earlier bills that
did take account of the concerns of Americans abroad, with provisions to
simplify state rules on voting, eliminate notarization requirements and
collect data on overseas citizens.

But by the time the House and Senate reached a compromise and adopted the
Help America Vote Act, some measures sought by overseas groups, including
allowing Americans who have never lived in the States to register at the
voting address of their parents, had fallen by the wayside.

The act, signed into law by President George W. Bush one week before the
November 2002 congressional election, "was designed to ensure that each
eligible citizen would have an equal opportunity to cast a vote and have
that vote counted," said Veronica Gillespie, elections counsel with the
Senate Rules and Administration Committee, who worked on the legislation.

However, she added, "the Help America Vote Act has as a guiding principle
that it would not change the role of the states in conducting federal, state
and local elections. This means the act did not introduce a federal law that
governed eligibility requirements for voter registration, voting or counting
votes. State law controls voter eligibility."

Brunelli, of the Federal Voting Assistance Program, said the program had
asked the 38 states that have not yet done so "to pass legislation to
enfranchise those U.S. citizens who have never resided in the States."

In the meantime, citizens abroad who find themselves unable to register may
challenge their state law under a complaints process, said Gillespie,
speaking by phone from Washington.

People who feel they have been disfranchised, she said, can turn to a law
that will permit them to file a complaint with the relevant state.

Again, however, the modalities of the complaints are up to the states. While
some may post regulations on the Internet, making them accessible to
overseas voters, others may post them on the statehouse door - and there is
no guarantee that a voter who files a challenge will win.

On the positive front, said Laederich, the advocate for overseas Americans,
it has become easier since 2000 to get registration forms and request
ballots online. For most states, the Federal Post Card Application needed to
register as an absentee can be obtained at
www.fvap.gov/pubs/onlinefpca.html.

Another advance is that the Help America Vote Act extended the registration
period for overseas voters to four years, so that registering now for the
Nov. 2 election will also entitle voters to cast ballots in the 2006
congressional elections.

Flood, too, spoke of a rebirth of citizen interest and said that many more
people have been calling in this year for information from the Federal
Voting Assistance Program. Toll-free numbers exist in 64 countries to allow
Americans to contact the program, which can patch them through to their
local voting district. The numbers can be obtained online at
www.fvap.gov/services/tollfree.html.

fawco.org has a full panoply of information about voting for overseas
Americans, with links to many other sites. www.fvap.gov is the official site
of the Federal Voting Assistance Program.

www.census.gov/overseas04 is the U.S. Census Bureau's site for overseas
Americans in France, Kuwait and Mexico who wish to take part in the
February-July test census.

Copyright © 2003 The In

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote:

Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time.

However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not
lived in the US or established residency in a particular
state.

Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there
are a couple of major sytematic problems.

For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a
specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing
votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one)
they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other
elections as well).

For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for
members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this
is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few
more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent
states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem.

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote:

Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time.

However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not
lived in the US or established residency in a particular
state.

Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there
are a couple of major sytematic problems.

For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a
specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing
votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one)
they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other
elections as well).

For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for
members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this
is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few
more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent
states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem.

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange
students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was
still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now?



************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In article , Divamanque
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote:

Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time.

However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not
lived in the US or established residency in a particular
state.

Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there
are a couple of major sytematic problems.

For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a
specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing
votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one)
they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other
elections as well).

For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for
members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this
is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few
more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent
states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem.

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange
students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was
still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now?

So you don't read the official election material sent to you by the
State of California? Why am I not surprised.

jay
Sun Mar 14, 2004






************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote
in their elections.

cheers,

Henry

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:55:10 -0800,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:



Hatunen wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:51:58 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote:

Americans traveling or living overseas have the right to
vote absentee if they lived in the states at one time.

However, the situaiont is not so easy for those who have not
lived in the US or established residency in a particular
state.

Assumoing we're talking about the presidential election, there
are a couple of major sytematic problems.

For one, voting is controlled at the state level. Unless a
specific state has some provision for this, such as allowing
votre registration in the parents' state (assuming they have one)
they will be unable to vote (this problem applies to all other
elections as well).

For another, the voters do not choose the president, but vote for
members of the Electoral College who does the actual voting; this
is why Bush was elected despite the fact that Gore garnered a few
more votes. since the members of the electoral college represent
states, a national voter registration won't solve this problem.

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Good point, Dave. What about American students living abroad (exchange
students, etc.)? Of course, when I was "student" age, voting age was
still 21, so few college students quaified, but how does that work, now?

Being long past 21 I hesitate to say. I know anyone absentee can
register to vote by mail and vote absentee ballot by mail.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:17:32 +0200, (Henry)
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote
in their elections.

I wasn't aware that it was a burden.

It was intended as a philosophical note. In that vein, surely you
think that voters should be aware of the issues before voting? I
wonder how someone who has never set foot on American soil would
know enough to make an informed choice.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 14/03/04 19:20, in article ,
"Hatunen" wrote:

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?


All American citizens, whereever they live are required to file
a IRS return which contains the global income. If they have
no taxable income they don`t have to file.

But a majority of adults will have an income.

They may not have a tax to pay, since the earned income exclusion
may wipe out any taxable income. But unearned (investment, real
estate, capital gains) are taxable. Even pensions paid overseas
can be taxable.

Those who obtain their US passports overseas will also have their
names and addresses shared with the IRS. Of course there are
people who don`t comply and pay no taxes. I don`t know of any
provision anywhere that a person only has the right to vote only if
they pay their taxes, however.

We vote absentee through our last address in the US, which is
in the state of California. Their web pages explains the
law

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_m.htm

Our situation is is explained in the section

*****

"Military/Overseas Absentee Voting

If you are a US citizen and are going to be overseas or if you are in the
military and wish to vote absentee, there are special provisions for you to
register and receive an overseas absentee ballot. To do this you may need
to complete a "Federal Post Card Registration and Absentee Ballot Request,"
and mail it to your local county elections official.

Overseas Absentee Ballot
(Federal Post Card and Absentee Ballot Request,)

*****

One receives a special ballot only having national office holders
(president, vice president, senator and representative) so one does not vote
for state offices, bond issues etc. Since one is not living in the state
and does not pay taxes to the state, it is seen as right to have the power
for vote on these issues.

But for national office, one is represented. So the issue of "no taxation
without representation² is not there. Except for those who can not find
a place to vote.

We ourselves have complied with US tax law for every year we have been
overseas and have voted absentee for 30 years.

Earl

On 15/03/04 7:05, in article ,
"Hatunen" wrote:

Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote
in their elections.

I wasn't aware that it was a burden.

The US is the only major country I know of which requires its overseas
citizens to file a US tax return.

Basically it is a pain in the neck. We have to pay an accountant $600
a year to do it! US tax returns are burden themselves, more that the
tax due. They are incredibly complicated. Ours runs maybe 30 pages,
our French return is just a few.

Earl

Hatunen wrote:

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:17:32 +0200, (Henry)
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:

And of course, some philosophical questions are raised: should
someone who had never resided in the USA and probably pays no
taxes to the USA, nor partakes of any other of the
responsibilities of a US resident, be allowed to vote?

Anyone who bears the burden of a US passport should be allowed to vote
in their elections.

I wasn't aware that it was a burden.

It was intended as a philosophical note. In that vein, surely you
think that voters should be aware of the issues before voting? I
wonder how someone who has never set foot on American soil would
know enough to make an informed choice.

I have the same "wonder" about many of the voters who live here! Back
when Kennedy was elected, I worked with a Japanese-American woman who,
although born in Hawaii and hence an American citizen, had spent most of
her life in Japan (she was about forty when I knew her). She had only
recently come to the U.S., and when one of our co-workers asked who she
had voted for, she replied "the handsome one". (Which presumably meant
Kennedy - I don't think anyone would have called his opponent
"handsome".)



************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *