Wine for teenagers.

On Nov 18, 4:00 pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
D Ball wrote:

"The Law" back at home = In most jurisdictions...whether US or
international...statutory law allows an underage child to consume
alcohol in the presence of the child's parent or legal guardian. (I
just checked the language of my state's statute, and it also includes
"spouse" as an authorizing presence...don't even want to go there!)

That is in the context of home, private situations. There is
nothing in the laws (in the US) that say the parent can buy the kid a
drink in a bar (just as a clarification to your post).

Kurt, not to be quarrelsome, but your statement is not a correct
statement of the law of every state in the US. Each state has
legislated underage drinking differently. Some states do contain an
expression of the location where a parent may allow an underage child
to drink. But some state laws are written to require only "parent
presence," without specification as to location. So, whether I am in
my home or in my parents' home or in a restaurant or in a bar, if I
want to allow my teen to consume alcohol, I can because the Texas
language turns on "parent presence."

I just Googled this quickly and got this hit, which illustrates the
point: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Sta...914111947.html

Diana

The whole thing of setting some magic age when a youngster can have a
bit of wine with dinner is ridiculous. In my family, the kids were free
to sip wine when and if they chose at home, and we'd also let them have
a sip in a restaurant. The denial of the sip of wine or beer magnifies
its desirability to the kids, whether they really like it or not. Most
kids might take a sip and decide they don't like it or don't give a darn
about whether they have it or not. However, if you tell a kid that they
cannot have any under any circumstance until they're 18 or 21, then any
kid worth a darn will sneak, finagle, beg or otherwise get a drink.

I do feel that as a grandparent, however, that it is a decision to be
made by the parents, and not the grandparents, whether a little one can
taste a sip of wine.

--
---Nonnymus---
No matter how large your boat,
the person you are talking with will
have a close friend with a larger one.
---Observation by my son

In article
,
D Ball wrote:

On Nov 18, 4:00 pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
D Ball wrote:

"The Law" back at home = In most jurisdictions...whether US or
international...statutory law allows an underage child to consume
alcohol in the presence of the child's parent or legal guardian. (I
just checked the language of my state's statute, and it also includes
"spouse" as an authorizing presence...don't even want to go there!)

That is in the context of home, private situations. There is
nothing in the laws (in the US) that say the parent can buy the kid a
drink in a bar (just as a clarification to your post).

Kurt, not to be quarrelsome, but your statement is not a correct
statement of the law of every state in the US. Each state has
legislated underage drinking differently. Some states do contain an
expression of the location where a parent may allow an underage child
to drink. But some state laws are written to require only "parent
presence," without specification as to location.

Well you are being so (g). Every state has something that says
bartenders can not serve anyone under 21. I said that the laws state
that the parent can not buy a drink in the bar, which is certainly the
case.


So, whether I am in
my home or in my parents' home or in a restaurant or in a bar, if I
want to allow my teen to consume alcohol, I can because the Texas
language turns on "parent presence."
But elsewhere (including in your example below) that says they bar
can not legally sell it or allow consumption in their facility.



I just Googled this quickly and got this hit, which illustrates the
point:SA R.S. 93:11 makes it illegal to sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under the age of twenty-one years.
Specifically: makes it illegal to sell alcoholic beverages to anyone
under the age of twenty-one years. So the parent can theoretically buy
alcohol for their kid, but the bar can't sell it to them

LSA R.S. 93:12 makes it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to
purchase or have public possession of an alcoholic beverage.

This would tend to agree with point I was trying to make. Public is
the key word.


LSA R.S. 93:13 makes it illegal for anyone to buy alcoholic beverages
for anyone under the age of 21 years except for a parent, guardian or
spouse of the person under 21.

But 12 still makes it illegal to publicly possess and 11 makes it
illegal to sell to the minor, no matter what.


So, it would appear that someone under 21 years cannot buy or have in
his possession (in public) any alcoholic beverage. It would also appear
that it would not be illegal for someone under 21 to drink at home if a
parent buys the booze.

On Nov 18, 5:29 pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
D Ball wrote:



On Nov 18, 4:00 pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
D Ball wrote:

"The Law" back at home = In most jurisdictions...whether US or
international...statutory law allows an underage child to consume
alcohol in the presence of the child's parent or legal guardian. (I
just checked the language of my state's statute, and it also includes
"spouse" as an authorizing presence...don't even want to go there!)

That is in the context of home, private situations. There is
nothing in the laws (in the US) that say the parent can buy the kid a
drink in a bar (just as a clarification to your post).

Kurt, not to be quarrelsome, but your statement is not a correct
statement of the law of every state in the US. Each state has
legislated underage drinking differently. Some states do contain an
expression of the location where a parent may allow an underage child
to drink. But some state laws are written to require only "parent
presence," without specification as to location.

Well you are being so (g). Every state has something that says
bartenders can not serve anyone under 21. I said that the laws state
that the parent can not buy a drink in the bar, which is certainly the
case.

So, whether I am in my home or in my parents' home or in a restaurant or in a bar, if I
want to allow my teen to consume alcohol, I can because the Texas
language turns on "parent presence."

But elsewhere (including in your example below) that says they bar
can not legally sell it or allow consumption in their facility.



I just Googled this quickly and got this hit, which illustrates the
point:SA R.S. 93:11 makes it illegal to sell alcoholic beverages to anyone under the age of twenty-one years.

Specifically: makes it illegal to sell alcoholic beverages to anyone
under the age of twenty-one years. So the parent can theoretically buy
alcohol for their kid, but the bar can't sell it to them

LSA R.S. 93:12 makes it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to
purchase or have public possession of an alcoholic beverage.

This would tend to agree with point I was trying to make. Public is
the key word.

LSA R.S. 93:13 makes it illegal for anyone to buy alcoholic beverages
for anyone under the age of 21 years except for a parent, guardian or
spouse of the person under 21.

But 12 still makes it illegal to publicly possess and 11 makes it
illegal to sell to the minor, no matter what.

So, it would appear that someone under 21 years cannot buy or have in
his possession (in public) any alcoholic beverage. It would also appear
that it would not be illegal for someone under 21 to drink at home if a
parent buys the booze.

Kurt,

I'm not trying to be difficult! Anyone interested in the subject
should check the law of his/her state. They are all different. I still
don't agree with your broad-sweeping statement because it's not the
law of my state. I didn't refer folks to that website for anything but
illustration. Again, to test the current law of a particular
jurisdiction, you've just gotta go to that state's laws. Key word
searches might include name of state + law + consume + alcohol.
Provisions regarding underage drinking will be in the penal code
(criminal laws) and statutes governing the sell of alcohol (civil
laws).

You are quoting excerpts from the statutes of a state beginning with
the letter L.

I didn't try to offer an affirmative statement of the law of any state
other than Texas, which is where I live. If you really want to see
Texas law in black and white, here is one provision:

"A person may purchase an alcoholic beverage for or give an alcoholic
beverage to a minor if he is the minor's adult parent, guardian, or
spouse, or an adult in whose custody the minor has been committed by a
court, and he is visibly present when the minor possesses or consumes
the alcoholic beverage." Sec. 106.06(b), Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Code.


Diana

"Nonnymus" wrote in message
...

The whole thing of setting some magic age when a youngster can have a bit
of wine with dinner is ridiculous. In my family, the kids were free to
sip wine when and if they chose at home, and we'd also let them have a sip
in a restaurant. The denial of the sip of wine or beer magnifies its
desirability to the kids, whether they really like it or not. Most kids
might take a sip and decide they don't like it or don't give a darn about
whether they have it or not. However, if you tell a kid that they cannot
have any under any circumstance until they're 18 or 21, then any kid worth
a darn will sneak, finagle, beg or otherwise get a drink.

I do feel that as a grandparent, however, that it is a decision to be made
by the parents, and not the grandparents, whether a little one can taste a
sip of wine.

--
---Nonnymus---
No matter how large your boat,
the person you are talking with will
have a close friend with a larger one.
---Observation by my son

Once again this excuse is feeble at best. Children who are told by their
parents that they can not have crack cocaine under any circumstances will
sneak, finagle, beg or otherwise smoke some crack if they are worth a darn!
(To use your erred logic)

What non-sense. Just teach your kids values and that magic word NO! Or let
them have the run of you and let them do as they please. I prefer to teach
mine the rules. Obey the laws, avoid things that hurt you (such as alcoholic
beverages when your body is not developed enough to handle them) and many
many other bad things. Remember the commercial "Parents, The Anti-Drug"

In article
,
D Ball wrote:


That is in the context of home, private situations. There is
nothing in the laws (in the US) that say the parent can buy the kid a
drink in a bar (just as a clarification to your post).



I'm not trying to be difficult! Anyone interested in the subject
should check the law of his/her state. They are all different. I still
don't agree with your broad-sweeping statement because it's not the
law of my state. I didn't refer folks to that website for anything but
illustration. Again, to test the current law of a particular
jurisdiction, you've just gotta go to that state's laws. Key word
searches might include name of state + law + consume + alcohol.
Provisions regarding underage drinking will be in the penal code
(criminal laws) and statutes governing the sell of alcohol (civil
laws).
The law indicates that licensees can't sell to minors, though. (which
is-- or at least was supposed to be-- my point). The laws still say that
licensees can not sell to minors.
§ 106.03. SALE TO MINORS. (a) A person commits an offense
if with criminal negligence he sells an alcoholic beverage to a
minor.
(b) A person who sells a minor an alcoholic beverage does
not commit an offense if the minor falsely represents himself to be
21 years old or older by displaying an apparently valid Texas
driver's license or an identification card issued by the Texas
Department of Public Safety, containing a physical description
consistent with his appearance for the purpose of inducing the
person to sell him an alcoholic beverage.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(d) Subsection (b) does not apply to a person who accesses
electronically readable information under Section 109.61 that
identifies a driver's license or identification certificate as
invalid.

The only specific time they do not have a criminal exposure is when
a decent forgery is given. So, as I mentioned (or at least tried to say)
that sales to minors are illegal, so the parent's exemption apparently
does not trump 106.3 which is why I said the parent can't buy the kids
anything in a bar.

You are quoting excerpts from the statutes of a state beginning with
the letter L.
Those were responses that I had from either yours or someone else. I
don't know who came up with them.


I didn't try to offer an affirmative statement of the law of any state
other than Texas, which is where I live. If you really want to see
Texas law in black and white, here is one provision:

"A person may purchase an alcoholic beverage for or give an alcoholic
beverage to a minor if he is the minor's adult parent, guardian, or
spouse, or an adult in whose custody the minor has been committed by a
court, and he is visibly present when the minor possesses or consumes
the alcoholic beverage." Sec. 106.06(b), Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Code.

See above. I think you are arguing consumption while I am saying while
that may be true, every state has rules on when a licensee can SELL. The
fact that a person can sometimes consume in the parent's supervision,
doesn't mean that the licensee can sell.
We may have to agree to disagree.

I sure hate to see way the world is going these days. I don't care what
the occasion is minors should not be aloud to drink wine or any other
acholic beverages. The world is something else these days.

Thank You;
Lois S. Hilliard

In article , LOIS
HILLIARD wrote:

I sure hate to see way the world is going these days. I don't care what
the occasion is minors should not be aloud to drink wine or any other
acholic beverages. The world is something else these days.

I hate to tell you this but it has nothing to do with "these days".
When I was a minor a long time ago in the last century there were
minors drinking alcoholic beverages.

--
Charles

Louis, my grandkids are hilarious after a couple of drinks! The little girl
shoves a big pillow under her dress and "says, I'm grandma
cow!"haha!!!!!(and I am a senior)
"LOIS HILLIARD" wrote in message
...
I sure hate to see way the world is going these days. I don't care what
the occasion is minors should not be aloud to drink wine or any other
acholic beverages. The world is something else these days.

Thank You;
Lois S. Hilliard

Daniel R. Bonham wrote:

"Nonnymus" wrote in message
...

The whole thing of setting some magic age when a youngster can have a bit
of wine with dinner is ridiculous. In my family, the kids were free to
sip wine when and if they chose at home, and we'd also let them have a sip
in a restaurant. The denial of the sip of wine or beer magnifies its
desirability to the kids, whether they really like it or not. Most kids
might take a sip and decide they don't like it or don't give a darn about
whether they have it or not. However, if you tell a kid that they cannot
have any under any circumstance until they're 18 or 21, then any kid worth
a darn will sneak, finagle, beg or otherwise get a drink.

I do feel that as a grandparent, however, that it is a decision to be made
by the parents, and not the grandparents, whether a little one can taste a
sip of wine.

--
---Nonnymus---
No matter how large your boat,
the person you are talking with will
have a close friend with a larger one.
---Observation by my son


Once again this excuse is feeble at best. Children who are told by their
parents that they can not have crack cocaine under any circumstances will
sneak, finagle, beg or otherwise smoke some crack if they are worth a darn!
(To use your erred logic)

But crack cocaine is illegal, to adults and children,
anytime and anywhere, and alcohol is not. Would you
make all of the decisions for your children or would
you teach them how to make good sensible decisions?
Alcohol is not evil.

Marsha/Ohio