Credit card fraud

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote on Mon, 26 Mar 2007
10:22:56 -0700:


Precisely why I vehemently refuse my bank's frequent
cheerful offers of a combination ATM/Debit-card to replace
the ATM card I specifically demanded when I opened my
account! True, I could contest fraudulent charges in any
case - the difference is that, with a debit card, the money
is no longer in my account and the bank may take its own
sweet time replacing it. If I dispute a credit card charge,
I simply don't PAY it! (True, the credit-card company may
impose interest on any unpaid portion of my account, but it
gets rescinded when the matter is resolved.)



I'm with you there. I have an ATM card and credit cards but no
debit card. My credit union says that their rules insist that
they "must" send me one but my shredder does quite a good job.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:04:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

"PeterL" wrote:

Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?

Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.


I read the above with interest. Does that mean that when I take my
Canadian Master card or Visa to use in Europe, I will be required to
have a PIN number for them? Is this new? Is this widespread?

In Canada, the only time you need a credit card pin is at a cash
machine.

Since I don't need a PIN for my CC, I don't have one. Not one I
remember anyway.


Does this mean I have to now get one?

Thanks for this alert.

"Alec" alexis2525 @ mail.com wrote in message
...

"John Stolz" wrote in message
...
I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that the
thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?

Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
until I get a new one.


In Switzerland a lot of establishments aren't wired up with chip and pin
terminals, so your card was processed for signature and your thief just
copied your squiggles.

When I had cards stolen, before chip and PIN, they didn't even bother to
copy my signature. They crudely erased it and put their own version of my
name on. However, nobody spotted it, probably because they didn't check the
signature at all.

Colin Bignell

On Mar 26, 11:01 am, Markku Grönroos wrote:
"PeterL" kirjoitti
glegroups.com... On Mar 26, 3:31 am, John Stolz wrote:
I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that
the thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?

Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
until I get a new one.

Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?

Go to an unmanned gas station and fill the tank with plastic without typing
the key. It may work in America but doesn't do so in Europe.


Many US gas stations require entering the zip code (postal code). But
OP says the thieves used his card in stores.

"tile" wrote in message
...

pls note that fraudolent use of credit cards is normal in internet. In
internet it is not possible to make security checks.

Any card I accept has passed about 20 different checks, not all obvious
ones. Later this year online retailers in the UK will be expected to adopt
the 3D secure system, which additionally requires the customer to input a
password via a secure server.

the person that accepts credit cards is obliged to ask for identification
documents.

Not true in the UK

I use a trick now. I do not sign my credit cards.
It will be almost impossible for any thief to make a signature similar to
mine,

They don't have to. They only have to have a signature that matches the one
on the card. If you don't sign your card, the thief will and will get a
perfect match.

Colin Bignell

On Mar 26, 11:04 am, Padraig Breathnach wrote:
"PeterL" wrote:
Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?

Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.


I have used my US credit card plenty of time in Europe, never having
to enter a PIN number.

Does this only apply to European credit cards?




--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing:http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?
Because that is the way things have gone in much of Europe.
I have used my US credit card plenty of time in Europe, never
having to enter a PIN number.
Does this only apply to European credit cards?

No. If a retailer doesn't want to accept a card they don't have to,
and there was a thread here a few weeks ago about a British mobile
phone company that wouldn't take PIN-less cards (i.e. they'd decided
that US customers weren't worth the hassle and risk).

Expect to see more of this.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

"PeterL" kirjoitti
egroups.com...
On Mar 26, 11:01 am, Markku Grönroos wrote:
"PeterL" kirjoitti
glegroups.com... On Mar
26, 3:31 am, John Stolz wrote:
I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that
the thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?

Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
until I get a new one.

Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?

Go to an unmanned gas station and fill the tank with plastic without
typing
the key. It may work in America but doesn't do so in Europe.


Many US gas stations require entering the zip code (postal code). But
OP says the thieves used his card in stores.
____________________________________________

All the European pay cards will be equipped with a chip which will gradually
replace the magnetic tape. More and more common it is at stores that
verification is not fullfilled by signing a receipt but by typing the pin
code while the card is in a special purpose card reader. I have done this
many times. I guess a couple of more years and this will be a standard
procedure throughout Europe and in most places outside Europe.

Thieves can use the card in the trivial case they have learned the key code
(for instance by peeking the typing of the owner behind his back before the
theft has taken place). Also at this phase of evolution, the European
plastic has BOTH the chip AND the magnetic tape. This is for the obvious
reason that not all the vendors have terminal devices which can read the
chip. In these instances validation of the transaction is made in
conventional fashion by signing the bill. When value of the merchandise is
not substantial but a few dozen euros in maximum, identification is not
typically required.

Duh

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...


James Silverton wrote:



Given the small size scribble on the back of my credit card, I would thnk
that practically any "signature" would be acceptable if they bothered to
look. In any case, you will usually get charged whether or not you have
signed the receipt. A particular example is buying gas when no signature
is asked at the pump. I don't usually manage to write anything that
looks like my usual signature when I am asked to use one of those touch
sensitive pads either.

Precisely why I vehemently refuse my bank's frequent cheerful offers of a
combination ATM/Debit-card to replace the ATM card I specifically demanded
when I opened my account! True, I could contest fraudulent charges in any
case - the difference is that, with a debit card, the money is no longer
in my account and the bank may take its own sweet time replacing it. If I
dispute a credit card charge, I simply don't PAY it! (True, the
credit-card company may impose interest on any unpaid portion of my
account, but it gets rescinded when the matter is resolved.)

"PeterL" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 26, 3:31 am, John Stolz wrote:
I had my credit card stolen in Geneva last week and was surprised that
the thief was able to use it at more than 10 stores without the PIN. I
thought the pin system was supposed to be unbreakable?

Not my money being stolen, but it is inconvenient being without a card
until I get a new one.


Why would anyone need a PIN to use a credit card?

The following article from the BBC website of 14 February 2006 explains it.
The USA will adopt the same technogoly eventually.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4705842.stm

JohnT