Air New Zealand vs. Qantas

"Blue Lagoon" wrote

You don't know what you are talking about.

In plain view of the media, Air New Zealand was taking parts from a 767 of
Ansett airlines just when the company decide liquidate in September 2001.

It took the unions to shove Air New Zealand crew away from that 767 but
like
scavengers, they came back later.

What about New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark had to go out of view
from
union protesters after landing in Melbourne Airport (timeline was
September
/ October 2001). Helen Clark had to be taken on a helicopter (I think it
was a police helicopter) to sale air base for an arriving jet.

Can you please refute them?

I think you are confusing a couple of issues here.

I don't remember the 767 incident you mention above, but my understanding of
the situation was:

Air New Zealand bought into Ansett on the understanding that it would have
access to Australian air routes, and would be able to bring Singapore
Airlines on board as a partner later.

The Australian government reneged on its agreement with Air New Zealand (for
political reasons) meaning the funds Air NZ needed to keep Ansett viable
were no longer available.

Air NZ then started stripping assets from Ansett, to keep the planes it had
travelling into Australia in the air.

Air NZ nearly went belly up over the deal, and the NZ government prepared a
bail out package for the company.

At about the same time, unionists looking for a video bite blockaded an Air
NZ jet - which just happened to have Helen Clark as a passenger. She
couldn't get out of the country, so the Australian govt. organised a chopper
to get her to Sale Airbase so she could get a ride back to NZ on a NZ
military plane - I thought it was a Herc, but it may have been a jet.

So yes, Air NZ screwed up. But it didn't do it by itself. The Australian
govt must shoulder some of the blame for what happened. Air NZ tried to
build an empire, and it failed with the help of John Howard's govt.

Have I missed anything or misrepresented the situation?

I am an Australian living in NZ, btw...

Cheers,

Brenton

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:35:10 +1100, "Blue Lagoon"
wrote:

"JD" wrote in message
...
LDL wrote:

Qantas may not be perfect but after what Air New Zealand did to Ansett
Australia, I will never take then by principle.

You don't know what you are talking about.

In plain view of the media, Air New Zealand was taking parts from a 767 of
Ansett airlines just when the company decide liquidate in September 2001.

It took the unions to shove Air New Zealand crew away from that 767 but like
scavengers, they came back later.

What about New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark had to go out of view from
union protesters after landing in Melbourne Airport (timeline was September
/ October 2001). Helen Clark had to be taken on a helicopter (I think it
was a police helicopter) to sale air base for an arriving jet.

Can you please refute them?


Yep. We refute them.

What about the purchase of Hazelton Airline between Qantas and Ansett where
after Ansett purchased Hazelton?



"BTMO" wrote in message
...

"Blue Lagoon" wrote

You don't know what you are talking about.

In plain view of the media, Air New Zealand was taking parts from a 767
of
Ansett airlines just when the company decide liquidate in September
2001.

It took the unions to shove Air New Zealand crew away from that 767 but
like
scavengers, they came back later.

What about New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark had to go out of view
from
union protesters after landing in Melbourne Airport (timeline was
September
/ October 2001). Helen Clark had to be taken on a helicopter (I think
it
was a police helicopter) to sale air base for an arriving jet.

Can you please refute them?

I think you are confusing a couple of issues here.

I don't remember the 767 incident you mention above, but my understanding
of
the situation was:

Air New Zealand bought into Ansett on the understanding that it would have
access to Australian air routes, and would be able to bring Singapore
Airlines on board as a partner later.

What about Qantas' willingness to purchase Air New Zealand? Air New Zealand
would have Australian access.

The Australian government reneged on its agreement with Air New Zealand
(for
political reasons) meaning the funds Air NZ needed to keep Ansett viable
were no longer available.

Air NZ then started stripping assets from Ansett, to keep the planes it
had
travelling into Australia in the air.

Air NZ nearly went belly up over the deal, and the NZ government prepared
a
bail out package for the company.

At about the same time, unionists looking for a video bite blockaded an
Air
NZ jet - which just happened to have Helen Clark as a passenger. She
couldn't get out of the country, so the Australian govt. organised a
chopper
to get her to Sale Airbase so she could get a ride back to NZ on a NZ
military plane - I thought it was a Herc, but it may have been a jet.

So yes, Air NZ screwed up. But it didn't do it by itself. The Australian
govt must shoulder some of the blame for what happened. Air NZ tried to
build an empire, and it failed with the help of John Howard's govt.

Have I missed anything or misrepresented the situation?

I am an Australian living in NZ, btw...

Cheers,

Brenton

"Blue Lagoon" wrote

What about the purchase of Hazelton Airline between Qantas and Ansett
where
after Ansett purchased Hazelton?

No idea. Don't remember that one.


However, it is worth remembering that businesses do fail. And it shouldn't
be the job of goverments to prop them up.

Cheers,

Brenton

Hilary wrote:
Ansett *was* in Star Alliance.

Ansett's entry into Star Alliance was a defacto membership due it it being
wholly owned by Air New Zealand. Its is Air NZ that had done all the leg work
to get its admission into Star. Had Ansett not been under the Air NZ umbrella,
it is unclear if it would have been admitted or not.

Even Air NZ had to do a lot of hand waiving, even spill some blood to get
Star's attention. (Well before it got accepted, NZ cannabalised it canadian
routes when it broke off relationship with a carrier that competed against a
star alliance member)

I personally think that Ansett should have been in Star whether by itself or
due to Air NZ. It was logical for Star to have a domestic network in
Australia, even if Ansett contributed little to Star's international routes.
But I am not sure that Ansett would have been a good business case for Star
alliance (woudl it have drawn more resources than it put in ?)

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:40:11 +1300, steve wrote:

james_anatidae wrote:

All other things being equal (price, time, route) which would you prefer
to fly?

Air NZ.

We own it.

I presume from you must be Singapore Airlines?

Cheeers Alan, Oz.

Alan wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:40:11 +1300, steve wrote:

james_anatidae wrote:

All other things being equal (price, time, route) which would you prefer
to fly?

Air NZ.

We own it.

I presume from you must be Singapore Airlines?

Cheeers Alan, Oz.

They own a tiny share. The NZ Govt owns over 80%.

"BTMO" wrote in message
news

"Blue Lagoon" wrote

What about the purchase of Hazelton Airline between Qantas and Ansett
where
after Ansett purchased Hazelton?

No idea. Don't remember that one.


However, it is worth remembering that businesses do fail. And it shouldn't
be the job of goverments to prop them up.

It should be if it's in the public good.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:16:25 +1100, Alan
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:40:11 +1300, steve wrote:

james_anatidae wrote:

All other things being equal (price, time, route) which would you prefer
to fly?

Air NZ.

We own it.

I presume from you must be Singapore Airlines?

Cheeers Alan, Oz.

The New Zealand government is the majority shareholder

"BTMO" wrote in message
...

"Blue Lagoon" wrote


Can you please refute them?

I think you are confusing a couple of issues here.

I don't remember the 767 incident you mention above, but my understanding
of
the situation was:

Air New Zealand bought into Ansett on the understanding that it would have
access to Australian air routes,

snipped

And more to the point, ANZ would not have been in the market for Ansett, had
the Aus govt not reneged on the "Open Skies" agreement.

Currently we have Qantas and other Aus airlines who can and do enter our
domestic market at will while NZ carriers are shut out of Australia's, which
unfortunately has become quite typical of the way Australia does business
with nZ