Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!"

Peter Kemp wrote:
I'm just glad I get an exemption from the process thanks to a nice
shiny government visa, because otherwise I would *ot* come to the US

I thought it was currently the opposite: all those entering on a visa are fingerprinted.
In october, it will be all travellers whether on a real visa, or a 90 day visa waiver.

Chad Irby wrote:

AJC wrote:

Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.

Check up on Brazil, then. They were complaining about fingerprinting
people from Brazil coming into the US, but neglected to note that they
already fingerprint and photograph *all* of their own citizens.

Does that somehow make it better? Note he said a "big brother" regime.

How do you feel about the registration of firearm?

In article , Oelewapper
wrote:

"Go Fig" wrote in message
...

What about after some incident, you must agree that fingerprints can be
valuable at this point. Clearly they were used in Madrid, as they used
discovered prints at that house to ID conspirators.

Ex post : yes, maybe - but only when justified, and within a decent judicial
framework
Ex ante: NEVER !!! Not where I wanna live anyway...

How do you feel about the gov mandating you to tell them where you live
?

jay
Sat Apr 03, 2004




-----
Air America: The greatest CIA-operation ever !!!

Alan Pollock wrote:
Seriously, driver's licenses are used as ID in the US.

You know, I am amazed at the transformation of the USA. In the past, the mere
mention of a national identity card would make the republicans rabid,
professing that such a card would infringe on the rights of freedom and
liberty (etc etc).

It is interesting that those very same people today are calling anyone who is
against the current regime's measures "unpatriotic" even those measures
actually do infronge on many of the basic principles of the USA (right to fair
trial, innocent until proven guilty etc).

While a citizen has some power over his government in case of abuses, a
visitor does not. So if the US regime misuses its own citizens information,
you can eventually boot them out (or even impeach them). But for travellers,
they have no such right.

This is especially true when a regime does not have modern data privacy laws
and can essentially do as it wishes with the personal data it collects.

Lets turn the tables around: lets say that the Taliban had required all
visitors to be fingerprinted and photographed when they visited Afghanistan.
Then, they would choose an american indentity at random and proceed to murder
some prominent person in the USA, making sure that they leave some innocent
person's fingerprints as well as wearing a mask making the real guilty person
look like the innocent.


That is why, if you are going to leave personal information with a government,
you must have trust that the government will not misuse that information. The
current USA regime has broken that trust because it has misused the information.

Look at the Jetblue personal information which had been meant to stay within
one department for study, but not only spread to other departments, but was
also handed over to some consulting firm that not only analysed the data but
also displayed privated information in their examples during a presentation at
a conference.

James Robinson wrote:
How do you feel about the registration of firearm?

That is in fact quite different. Registration of firearm is no different from
registration of a car or aircraft. Since since all three are dangerous and
kill (with the firearm designed for the sole purpose fo killing and giving no
transportation or other benefit), it is only normal that a government would
want to ensure that you are qualified to operate such a device by requiring registration.

But if a government captures your own body's information (fingerprints, DNA,
eye retina scan etc), then they "own" part of your body/identity.

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:

AJC wrote:

Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.

Check up on Brazil, then. They were complaining about fingerprinting
people from Brazil coming into the US, but neglected to note that they
already fingerprint and photograph *all* of their own citizens.

Does that somehow make it better? Note he said a "big brother" regime.

Brazil is a democracy, you should look up your terms.

How do you feel about the registration of firearm?

I don't approve of it.

Note that over the last couple of years, firearms laws have been
*relaxing* across most of the US, with one of the sillier ones going
away this September (the Assault Weapons Ban).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"AJC" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:55:44 -0600, "Quantum Foam Guy"
wrote:

"Oelewapper" wrote in message
...
Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks
dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is
"fascism".

Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.

Most US states started fingerprinting people applying for drivers licenses
(one electronic thumb print scan) in the early 1990s. This happened during
the Clinton administration. Fancy that.

This is the same system the VISIT program will use. It's not inconvenient,
unless you think spending two seconds pressing your finger to a glass
surface is inconvenient. If you object to it due to your ethics and
principles, I respect your opinion. Enjoy your vacation in Australia or
elsewhere this summer. Just remember that this same process will soon be
used in other countries that are on the Islamicist hit lists. That's why
you're not hearing a big stink from European leaders about the program. They
will be monitoring US-VISIT to see how to best implement similar programs in
the near future. Doubt me? Watch and see what happens.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about my privacy in Europe with so much
closed-circuit television monitoring and the facial recognition technology
they use. Like this:
http://www.spy.org.uk/n-mandrake.htm

For those who fear Big Brother, that's a true sphincter-tingler. I certainly
don't care if EU customs people want to take my fingerprint at the airport
when it confirms my identity and proves to the local government that I'm not
a criminal. In fact, with the threat of terrorism we all face I would prefer
it if they did so. The ability to track my movements around the country once
I've arrived for no legitimate legal reason frightens me.

In nobody wrote:

That is why, if you are going to leave personal information with a
government, you must have trust that the government will not misuse that
information. The current USA regime has broken that trust because it has
misused the information.

As did the one before it, and the one before that, and the one before that
and ...

As will the one that follows it.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
Quantum Foam Guy wrote:

Oelewapper wrote:

Dear allies, welcome to the age of digital fascism... :

This is not "fascism", unless you're one of those morons who thinks
dealing
with the DMV and getting fingerprinted for a driver's license is
"fascism".

I do consider it fascism. I also have never had my fingerprints taken
for a driver's license in the US.

Do you consider Jerry Brown to be a fascist? California started DL
fingerprinting in 1977 and it became mandatory in 1982. How about Bill
Clinton? Is he a fascist? Mr. Clinton signed the Immigration Reform Act of
1996 which encourages states to collect fingerprints when issuing drivers
licenses. Besides California, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Texas, and West
Virginia all collect fingerprints. There may be others considering the list
I just read is a few years old. Almost all states require your Social
Security number (which is what I find most objectionable since it it's not
meant to be a national ID number) and digital photo for their databases
before you can get a DL. Almost all drivers licenses now are machine
readable with information stored on a magnetic strip. Considering everything
else they have been collecting about you for decades, a fingerprint is
hardly evidence of "fascism".

I just remembered that when my kids were born the hospital took hand prints
and foot prints for the birth certificate that was filed with the county. Is
that fascism in your mind?

"Bert Hyman" wrote in message
...
In nobody wrote:

That is why, if you are going to leave personal information with a
government, you must have trust that the government will not misuse that
information. The current USA regime has broken that trust because it has
misused the information.
As did the one before it, and the one before that, and the one before that
and ...
As will the one that follows it.

You talkin about booz allen & hamilton's TIA involvement ???