Man in Cargo Plane Exposes Security Gaps

Meghan Powers wrote in message ...
Yaofeng wrote:

(Yaofeng doesn't know how to edit a post)

Correct me if I am wrong. The idea of flying into tall buildings
as a terrorist act was not taken from any movies. It was brand
new before 9/11.

What wasn't brand new is someone in the grip of islamic fervor taking
control of a large passenger plane and intentially crashing it. Egypt
Air FLT 990 (Oct 31 / 99). Seems we can expect nothing but (more)
trouble from those of the islamic faith that believe that suicidal
acts in the name if Islam are legimate if not compulsory. This will
continue until the Islamic religion undergoes it's own reformation (as
christianity did in the 15 and 16'hundreds). There are millions of
these people, crammed into hi-density countries, many of them young
and just itching to get into trouble, and the Islamic religion is
doing it's best to make their blood boil with hate towards the west.

I don't want to get into discussions of religion in this group for
fear of getting into more trouble...

But how Flt 990 crashed was inconclusive and the verdict was
controvesial IMO. How can you tell anyone if we knew someone was
going to crash a commercial jet, full of people and jet fuel fresh
from taking off, into a tall building, killing him in the process,
that no one is doing anything about it? We wouldn't have 9/11 if your
hindsight was publicised before it.

"Yaofeng" wrote in message
om...

I am
not at all concerned about security on cargo planes. It is, after
all, a cargo plane.

I hope Homeland Security doesn't think the same way. Couldn't the events of
September 11 be repeated with cargo planes instead of passenger planes? Very
easily, I'd think. This guy in a crate showed how it could be done.

Cate

mrtravel wrote:

There are millions of these people, crammed into hi-density
countries, many of them young and just itching to get into
trouble

Which has the highest population density, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan,
Iraq or England?

Do I ever have an answer for you.
http://u.nu/cia/poplist.php

Have a look where the West Bank and Gaza strip rank. Now what were we
saying about the combination of high youth demographics, low standard
of living, low job prospects, poor education, and the Islamic faith?

And yes, christians are insanely influenced by their religion (Just
look at Bush and the evangelical right). Does the US media call it
terrorism when abortion doctors are shot and bombed by these christian
terrorists?

Still doesn't change the fact that Egypt Air flight 990 was
intentially crashed 4 years ago by someone that was heavily influenced
by faith (Islamic). For all we know that event gave Bin Laden his
idea 9-11.

Yaofeng wrote:

What wasn't brand new is someone in the grip of islamic fervor
taking control of a large passenger plane and intentially
crashing it. Egypt Air FLT 990 (Oct 31 / 99).

I don't want to get into discussions of religion in this group

I think it's highly appropriate since religion is a strong motivator
and is the root cause for many tragedies around the world, some
involving planes, some not.

But how Flt 990 crashed was inconclusive and the verdict was
controvesial IMO.

We're not hearing much about this because of pressure from Egypt on
the US to simply sweep it under the rug. Both the cockpit voice
recorder and the flight data recorders indicate there was a
conflicting struggle with the controls.

How can you tell anyone if we knew someone was going to crash
a commercial jet, full of people and jet fuel fresh from
taking off, into a tall building, killing him in the process,
that no one is doing anything about it? We wouldn't have 9/11
if your hindsight was publicised before it.

Security experts within the FAA and US gov't (FBI, CIA, etc) should
have drafted new directives in the early 1990's for airline crews
regarding hijackings and how to deal with hijackers. The directives
being to oppose and disable hijackers using all force available and
enlist the passengers help if necessary. Cockpit doors should have
been strengthened at the same time. There was ample evidence in the
1980's and 1990's that martyrdom and suicide was a potential goal of a
domestic hijacked airliner and that there was more to gain by
disabling a hijacker rather then letting him/them take over a plane
un-opposed.

It should have been part of every pre-flight flight attendant drill,
and depicted inside every emergency pamphlet diagram to inform
passengers that it is both acceptible and necessary to subdue any
person or group of people who are using or threatening to use deadly
force to take control of a plane. Isin't it strange that such
warnings are not standard proceedure - 2 years after 9-11 ???

In article ,
"Cate" wrote:


I hope Homeland Security doesn't think the same way. Couldn't the events of
September 11 be repeated with cargo planes instead of passenger planes? Very
easily, I'd think. This guy in a crate showed how it could be done.

How would you get out of your package (assuming it's trapped underneath
other parcels, out of from the cargo container, and out of the cargo
hold (assuming you're in the bottom and not in the main deck), and to
the flight deck? Ain;t that easy, I think.

Meghan Powers wrote:
There are millions of
these people, crammed into hi-density countries, many of them young
and just itching to get into trouble, and the Islamic religion is

Explains why the Dutch are stark raving mad

"Not the Karl Orff" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Cate" wrote:


I hope Homeland Security doesn't think the same way. Couldn't the events
of
September 11 be repeated with cargo planes instead of passenger planes?
Very
easily, I'd think. This guy in a crate showed how it could be done.

How would you get out of your package (assuming it's trapped underneath
other parcels, out of from the cargo container, and out of the cargo
hold (assuming you're in the bottom and not in the main deck), and to
the flight deck?

I don't know, but this guy claims he did it a couple of times during his
journey. Can't remember if he says he got out inside the plane, though.

Are there ways of transporting cargo that don't necessitate steel cargo
containers? Just loose crates in a plane?

Even if you couldn't get to the cockpit, what's to prevent you from using
your handheld GPS inside your container to determine when you're just over,
say, Giants Stadium during a game. Detonate your smallpox-laced explosive
device or dirty bomb from inside the crate. You have no need of reaching the
cockpit, but you could still kill thousands of people on the ground.

Ain;t that easy, I think.

As far as reaching the cockpit, I'm sure you're correct. But you can still
do damage to those not on the plane by smuggling yourself in cargo.

Cate

Even if you couldn't get to the cockpit, what's to prevent you from using
your handheld GPS inside your container to determine when you're just
over,
say, Giants Stadium during a game. Detonate your smallpox-laced explosive
device or dirty bomb from inside the crate. You have no need of reaching
the
cockpit, but you could still kill thousands of people on the ground.

Would a GPS work inside an aircraft? It was my understanding that a GPS
receiver required a direct line of sight to the satelite.

In article ,
"Cate" wrote:


I don't know, but this guy claims he did it a couple of times during his
journey. Can't remember if he says he got out inside the plane, though.

Are there ways of transporting cargo that don't necessitate steel cargo
containers? Just loose crates in a plane?

Even if you couldn't get to the cockpit, what's to prevent you from using
your handheld GPS inside your container to determine when you're just over,

they usually don't work so fast, and certainly not get a signal from
inside a container. As is, you already have to place a GPS near or by a
window in an a/c to get a signal..

say, Giants Stadium during a game. Detonate your smallpox-laced explosive

chances it'll actually fly over the stadium?

device or dirty bomb from inside the crate. You have no need of reaching the
cockpit, but you could still kill thousands of people on the ground.

Ain;t that easy, I think.

As far as reaching the cockpit, I'm sure you're correct. But you can still
do damage to those not on the plane by smuggling yourself in cargo.

Cate

"Not the Karl Orff" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Cate" wrote:

Even if you couldn't get to the cockpit, what's to prevent you from
using
your handheld GPS inside your container to determine when you're just
over,

they usually don't work so fast, and certainly not get a signal from
inside a container. As is, you already have to place a GPS near or by a
window in an a/c to get a signal..

My mistake.

Doesn't mean the person in the cargo container isn't carrying an armed bomb,
however.


say, Giants Stadium during a game. Detonate your smallpox-laced
explosive

chances it'll actually fly over the stadium?

Fine. Pick any populous place (or otherwise catastrophic for a bomb to be)
in or near the flight path of an airport where a plane is landing or taking
off.

Cate