Daylight flight between LHR and LAX

should be daylight all the way, westbound. The problem would be on the
return, due to the time change.

Jeff

"ariopp" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and wish to travel form LHR to LAX on
Friday 8 February 2008.

There is a BA flight round about 10am & a Virgin flight at 11.30am.
The flying time is just over 11 hours.

If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

Could you please advise if either of these flights do?

Unusual question but I think quite interesting....

Thanks in advance for all the help!

"Gerald Oliver Swift" wrote in message
...


WTF has darkness got to do with it? The Sabbath begins at 00.01am on
Saturday.

Wrong.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

ariopp writes:

If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

How can you be sure that your rabbi's interpretation is correct?

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 20:49:07 on Fri, 18
Jan 2008, Gerald Oliver Swift remarked:
WTF has darkness got to do with it? The Sabbath begins at 00.01am on
Saturday.

No, apparently it does begin at sunset on Friday.

Yes, you are quite right. I stand corrected.
Apparently it is observed from sundown on Friday until the appearance of
three stars in the sky on Saturday night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat
I didn't realise this, not being "of the faith", and I apologise most humbly
if my ignorance offended anyone.

So, returning to the original question:-

I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and wish to travel form LHR to LAX on
Friday 8 February 2008.There is a BA flight round about 10am & a Virgin
flight at 11.30am.
The flying time is just over 11 hours.
If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

Both flights in question are direct non-stop.
http://www.expedia.co.uk/default

The BA flight departs LHR at 10.05am and arrives LAX at 13.10pm local time
with a flight duration of 11hrs 5mins.
The Virgin flight departs LHR at 11.30am and arrives LAX at 14.45pm local
time with a flight duration of 11hrs 15mins.
Distance flown is 5,456 miles.
http://gc.kls2.com/

As subsequent posters have indicated, quite correctly, the northernmost
point of the Great Circle route crosses line of latitude 64 degrees North
near to the town of Nuuk (capital of Greenland). Distance from LHR to Nuuk s
2,014 miles. Time difference = GMT -3hours.

We can calculate therefore that the flight time to Nuuk from LHR is approx.
4 hrs 10mins.
The BA flight will pass over Nuuk at approx. 14.15pm GMT = 11.15am local
time
The Virgin flight will pass over Nuuk at approx. 15.40pm GMT = 12.40pm local
time.

Sunset in Nuuk on February 8th is at 16.36pm local time
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...fl =-11&day=1

Sunset in Los Angeles on February 8th is at 17.30pm local time.

From departure in London to arrival in Los Angeles, both flights will be in
total daylight
and the Sabbath will not have "arrived" - barring a flight delay in excess
of 3 hours.

I trust this answers the OP's question.

Gerry

In message , at 07:53:45 on
Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Mxsmanic remarked:
If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

How can you be sure that your rabbi's interpretation is correct?

Isn't that what faith is all about?

(And it's consistent with what the BBC says:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi.../sabbath.shtml )
--
Roland Perry

ariopp writes:

Hi,
I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and wish to travel form LHR to LAX on
Friday 8 February 2008.

There is a BA flight round about 10am & a Virgin flight at 11.30am.
The flying time is just over 11 hours.

If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

Could you please advise if either of these flights do?

Unusual question but I think quite interesting....

Thanks in advance for all the help!

I just simulated this time period with GeoClock. Flights from LHR to LAX go
no further north than the southern tip of Greenland, and from what I can see
by speeding up the motion of the Earth in GeoClock, the daylight period
follows the flight, and the flight never goes far enough north to enter
darkness (on February 8, at solar noon the sun is shining well into the middle
part of Greenland). Thus, it looks like the flight may be in sunlight from
start to finish.

In message , at 07:01:27 on Sat, 19
Jan 2008, Gerald Oliver Swift remarked:

From departure in London to arrival in Los Angeles, both flights will
be in total daylight and the Sabbath will not have "arrived" - barring
a flight delay in excess of 3 hours.

I would presume that the OP is also not supposed to take a ride in a
car/taxi/bus etc on the Sabbath. If you add in the time taken for the
immigration/customs process, and realise that it's an awful long walk
from LAX airport to anywhere in the city, then much of a delay on the
later flight could start getting tricky.

I have also met orthodox Jews who aren't allowed to handle money on the
Sabbath, so unless the OP is staying with friends he will have needed to
check into a hotel by sunset as well.
--
Roland Perry

In article "dgs" writes:

ariopp wrote:

Hi,
I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and wish to travel form LHR to LAX on
Friday 8 February 2008.

If you're really concerned about international travel on a Friday,
switch your flight to Thursday, or wait until Sunday. Problem solved.

Indeed. The OP should bear in mind that it's winter here in the
UK, and the adverse weather often disrupts transport -- air
travel in particular. 24 hour delays are not unknown, so even
travelling on a Thursday is not without risk of flying into the
Sabbath. Sunday would be your safest bet...

--
"We have not inherited the earth from our ancestors,
we have borrowed it from our descendants."

ariopp wrote:

Hi,
I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and wish to travel form LHR to LAX on
Friday 8 February 2008.

There is a BA flight round about 10am & a Virgin flight at 11.30am.
The flying time is just over 11 hours.

If I catch either of these flights I will arrive in LAX well before
the Sabbath commences in LAX. However, my Rabbi has said that I should
check on the route the flight takes as it may go far enough North to
actually encounter a time of darkness thus meaning that the Sabbath
has already "arrived".

Could you please advise if either of these flights do?

Unusual question but I think quite interesting....

Thanks in advance for all the help!

When is your return date?
How do you plan to avoid darkness on the return.
What about flight delays.

In message , at 23:45:47
on Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Mr. Travel remarked:
How do you plan to avoid darkness on the return.

Doesn't matter if it's Saturday thru Thursday.

There's also the intriguing possibility of flying home westwards, and
either continuing to chase the sun, or in fact missing the 24hrs in
question altogether by crossing the International Date Line (if he
crosses at sunset Friday, won't it suddenly switch to being sunset
Saturday?)

What about flight delays.

As I remarked earlier, he may end up walking from the airport...
--
Roland Perry