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#91
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
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#92
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
Top posting to save time and breath ;-)
Now "Tchiowa", let's return to the original post on the 15th Jan 04 which posed a few simple questions which were :- Hang on a minute sport. Socialism ? Since when is this name tag so bad? Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its historical record. Thank you in anticipation ENDS Simple questions turned into complicated issues "Tchiowa", so here for the final time is a response general to your posts. You obviously have a mind set which blithely sweeps history under the carpet and *the NOW* is where all the action is. Pity really, especially on this news group, where souls with present and past involvement with the Armed Services are concerned. In fact, it is a gross insult to those who have defended this Nation past and present. I think it appropriate for you to apologize to our members. Now let me tell you this; largely because history and evolving economic systems showed a gross failure to comprehend what was happening all around them ( and remember well; in the past there was plenty of time to make any decisions versus the limited time because of electronic communications etc today) millions were to die and live in misery even before Socialism raised its head. Think about all those Centuries of unfetted power and lust for expansion. Do you think we should learn something from this, today? Should we dare return to this power? Whilst it is very convenient to slam Socialism as you observe it through a share holders glasses ; consider what system made your preferred Capitalist system respectable. And continues to do so !! Can you imagine, without hindrance, from Union's, Professional Societies, Lobby groups etc., how your Capitalist friends would behave? That my friend, is where history should become profitable, in solving today's National ailments. Taking an International turn now, it amazes me, constantly, how we in Oz fail to observe that we are part of an international economic clique. For instance, during Keating's time, when everyone was screaming about double digit inflation in Oz., guess what ? USA , UK and uncle tom cobbley an all had it too ! Same now with low inflation and low interest rates - it is a world wide phenomenon, hardly understood by the man in the street and taken advantage of politically, at the moment by Costello, for home consumption. I will share with you an interesting part of an e-mail from a Canberra friend, which I think you, as a rusted on Capitalist would enjoy ;-) Quote Australians are very patient people. We've tolerated nearly eight years of opportunism, political appointments, lies about how well the economy is doing, lies about 'perceived' threats (aimed to give Howard the right to play tin soldiers with peoples' lives), a rigged referendum on The Republic, a PM who has no qualms about sticking taxpayers for a $40,000+ weekend in a Rome hotel. November 2003 the second worst Balance of Payments on record (anyone remember Howard's debt truck?). Want more? An industrial relations outlook which pitted man against Rottweiler on Melbourne wharves in 1997, the designer of that scheme given a nice little sinecure in London for his good work. Oh, and he had a problem with his mobile phone. Governors-General? OK, no-one as intrinsically nasty as 'Sir' John Kerr, but a totally inept - even if pleasant - Anglican Bishop followed by an army autonomon. Both hand-picked by a dictator only surpassed in his unwillingness to consult by 'Sir' Robert Menzies. And? One Health Minister who was still a practicing medico, another who tipped off all his mates that computer tomography hardware was going to be taxed at a reasonable - rather than investor special - rate. Oh yes, and Wooldridge had a problem with mobile phones too. The message is simple to The ******* of Bennelong, and his foreign mates, The Cretin of Crawford and the Boofhead of Britain. To say nothing of his domestic motley crew, The Wally of Waringah, The Has-been of Higgins, The Moron of Mayo et al. Come in, your time is up. ENDS When someone can observe the *here and now* which you fondly admit to entirely support, perhaps you may wish to pause a bit, reconsider the passion you have for Capitalism and the lever pullers that make it work.(some good examples above for instance) For your further information, I find it entirely difficult to support a Party or a system. I know, history has a bad habit of repeating itself. I know history teaches us that systems need re working every 50 years or so. I know the Wall St crash will happen again - actual past due, but coming. Last, but not least, Adam Smith or John Maynard Keynes would turn in their graves, if they discovered the entrenched speculative activities, occurring within a wealth creating system labelled Capitalism. Goodbye "Tchiowa". Time now for you to report back to Party HQ :-) DN wrote in message om... "DN" wrote in message ... "Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "DN" wrote in message news:jr1Pb.19421$Wa.7578@news- SNIP I note with interest that even though the original question asked was about what was wrong with Socialism, you two have spent a lot of time attacking Capitalism but not one word defending Socialism. Particularly not with specific examples of successes. Wrong again. That's expected now from "Tchiowa". All that has been asked of you dear boy (girl?) thus far, is to share with us, the secrets known to you about the various ism's, versus what is known by history and the players over centuries past. You were even given a few reminders to work with, which you failed to understand or deliberately neglected to comment on. Why do you want to dwell on some particular twist of history? The fact is that Socialism is a failure. Look around you. TODAY!!! You don't need to say "Well, in 1302 blah did blah to blah". Look around you at the world right now. Now it is one thing to be a rusted on Capitalist or Socialist, but quite another thing to understand its birthright and evolution. It is I fear, at this juncture that we part company. Who cares about the birthright and evolution? I care about the results. And the world here and now that has proven Socialism fails and Capitalism succeeds. Why are you so afraid to address the world of today? Why do you dwell on centuries old past? Are you French? Without understanding, birthright and evolution of these systems, beliefs are generally based on emotion and/or prejudice. No. They are based on reality. Dwelling on such things as you are is a method of avoiding unpleasant realities of today that disprove what to you seems a pretty cherished (but discredited) belief. Examples for instance being what Dad said, what the telly shows purporting to be factual news says, Yeah, you're right. Don't want to look at the news when you can listen to a professor spout stories of centuries past. some jerks broadcasting live each day on radio talkback programmes with obvious political agenda's, You're saying *you* don't have an obvious political agenda? some teaching core subjects at Uni that need attention from one of these sides in Government and common propaganda slaves. The list is, as I am sure everyone else but "Tchiowa" would agree, is actually endless, with out scholarship. And that sport is the nub of the matter. Tell me something. How many Communist/Socialist or former Communist/Socialist countries have you lived in? Or spent significant time in? Have you lived or worked in any of the SSRs? China? Angola? Have you talked to people whose lives have been destroyed by Socialism and seen their desparate desire to improve life for themselves and their families dashed by the bureaucratic nightmare that inevitably arises? Or is all of your knowledge based on some Berkeley professors views as he desparately tries to avoid the 21st century (or even the 20th, for that matter)? Close your book. Forget your theory. Join the world. The world of reality. Look around you. Name the country where Socialism has succeeded? I'll name you dozens where Capitalism has succeeded. Dozens more where it is currently improving lives. And dozens where Socialism has destroyed people's lives. |
#93
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
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#95
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"DN" wrote in message ...
Top posting to save time and breath ;-) Now "Tchiowa", let's return to the original post on the 15th Jan 04 which posed a few simple questions which were :- Hang on a minute sport. Socialism ? Since when is this name tag so bad? Enlighten me/us on the merits of *your preferred system* and its historical record. Thank you in anticipation ENDS And I englightened you on the merits of the preferred system. You want now to delve into the history (which is irrelevant) because you can't defend your apparent preferred system on its merits. Simple questions turned into complicated issues "Tchiowa", so here for the final time is a response general to your posts. You obviously have a mind set which blithely sweeps history under the carpet and *the NOW* is where all the action is. No. I want to talk about reality and you want to embrace theory. People can't eat theory. Ask the North Koreans. snip Whilst it is very convenient to slam Socialism as you observe it through a share holders glasses ; consider what system made your preferred Capitalist system respectable. And continues to do so !! Can you imagine, without hindrance, from Union's, Professional Societies, Lobby groups etc., how your Capitalist friends would behave? That my friend, is where history should become profitable, in solving today's National ailments. What do any of these institutions have to do with Socialism???? All of those institutions are completely proper and appropriate under Capitalism. In fact, Unions and lobby groups are pretty much banned under Socialism. Remember that the core difference between Capitalism and Socialism is Capitalism involves private ownership of property and businessess while Socialism involves government ownership of the same. You keep talking about things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand. cap·i·tal·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kp-tl-zm) n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. so·cial·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ssh-lzm) n. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Your entire post ignored that basic principle. |
#96
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... SNIP Now let's make of list of countries that are converting to Capitalism and the people are seeing an enormous benefit (they are better off now than they were before): China, Indonesia, Thailand, Angola for starters. How about countries embracing Socialism and watching their economies get killed and people hurt? Like France? OK. Your turn. What Socialist countries have made their citizens lives better? Your list, please? John. Don't bother - he/she "Tchiowa", completely fails yet again, to understand the transitory nature of international economics and politics. God help us I say. I'm tempted to go on with this and quote Hoover pre 1929 but for now resist the temptation, for I am sure in the fullness of time it will need to be stated on this ng DN DN |
#97
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... Ooops. That's more than a dozen. All too easy. Educate yourself. Discover the difference between assertion and proof. |
#98
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... No. I want to talk about reality and you want to embrace theory. People can't eat theory. Ask the North Koreans. Listen up, farm boy: If the North Koreans are a bunch of walking skeletons, why such a threat? |
#99
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
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#100
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tosser" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... No. I want to talk about reality and you want to embrace theory. People can't eat theory. Ask the North Koreans. Listen up, farm boy: If the North Koreans are a bunch of walking skeletons, why such a threat? ??? Care to try that question again? I don't recall threatening anyone. |
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal | devil | Asia | 0 | December 31st, 2003 11:22 PM |