safety in Nairobi

An interesting variety of answers. Hans-Georg makes a very good point:
you will not get help if you are attacked. You will also not see
policemen on patrol. You will see askari guards outside many stores, and
sometimes these will help. I still simply do not feel safe in the city.
Peter

Gary,

don't play it down. Nairobi has had around 10 carjackings per
day in recent times and now shares its reputation as one of the
most crime-ridden cities in the world only with Johannesburg.

Talk to people who have lived there for a little longer, and
they will all tell you stories of what happened to
them---robberies with the car owner tied and stuffed into the
trunk, people trying to stop your car with gun in hand, things
like that.

Nowadays when I look back at the 80s when I could walk through
Nairobi with my camera equipment, a fairly big box, without the
least worry, this seems hard to believe from today's point of
view. I hope I'll get to scanning my photos soon, scanner
already slowly on the way, then I can show you what Nairobi was
like in those days, a very pleasant, peaceful city in Africa.

Nairobi has sunk very low.

Hans-Georg

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No mail, please.

In message , Hans-Georg
Michna writes
Gary,

don't play it down. Nairobi has had around 10 carjackings per
day in recent times and now shares its reputation as one of the
most crime-ridden cities in the world only with Johannesburg.

Talk to people who have lived there for a little longer, and
they will all tell you stories of what happened to
them---robberies with the car owner tied and stuffed into the
trunk, people trying to stop your car with gun in hand, things
like that.

Nowadays when I look back at the 80s when I could walk through
Nairobi with my camera equipment, a fairly big box, without the
least worry, this seems hard to believe from today's point of
view. I hope I'll get to scanning my photos soon, scanner
already slowly on the way, then I can show you what Nairobi was
like in those days, a very pleasant, peaceful city in Africa.

Nairobi has sunk very low.

Hans-Georg

Oh dear, just when I thought Gary was "our man" to tell us all how it is
in Nairobi!
I thought Gary had it right, as he lives there, I know you have been
this year Hans Georg, and I haven`t been since 1999. I`m still in touch
all the time with friends who live in Nairobi and they haven`t reported
anything out of the ordinary.
On the topic of hiring a car to get to various tourist attractions,
that`s a great suggestion Gary, it`s something we did to get to Giraffe
Manor and Karen Blixen`s house. The cost is OK and it`s a very
convenient way to get around.
I`m surprised I didn`t see you in the eighties around Nairobi Hans
Georg. I used to walk around on my own shopping and having coffee etc!
Pat
--
Pat Anderson

"Hans-Georg Michna" wrote in message
...
Gary,

don't play it down. Nairobi has had around 10 carjackings per
day in recent times and now shares its reputation as one of the
most crime-ridden cities in the world only with Johannesburg.

Talk to people who have lived there for a little longer, and
they will all tell you stories of what happened to
them---robberies with the car owner tied and stuffed into the
trunk, people trying to stop your car with gun in hand, things
like that.

Nowadays when I look back at the 80s when I could walk through
Nairobi with my camera equipment, a fairly big box, without the
least worry, this seems hard to believe from today's point of
view. I hope I'll get to scanning my photos soon, scanner
already slowly on the way, then I can show you what Nairobi was
like in those days, a very pleasant, peaceful city in Africa.

Nairobi has sunk very low.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

Got a problem with carjackers? Fit your car out with this little device!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/232777.stm

Hi again, Pat!! Hans-Georg said it well: people living there have come
to accept the present standard as the norm. To a visitor it is shocking.
I don't think there is anywhere in the west where ladies come to work
without jewellery, and then put it on at work, because of serious danger
of theft from their fellow countrypeople.

When we checked in at the Panafric last year we were told by the lobby
staff not to leave the hotel after 4pm and by no means go anywhere
unless you are in a taxi. We wanted to go to the 'Hard Rock' in Mombassa
too but it had recently been shot at in a drive-by. From Mombassa we
wanted to take a bus up to Lamu but were discouraged when we read the
newspaper which reported on a bus doing the same route the day before
guerillas ambushed them by strafing the bus with machine gun fire, then
making all the passengers get out, strip and have sex with each other.

Kenya was one of the saddest places I have ever been to- it is so
beautiful, Nairobi included as it is surrounded by a wildlife park, has
great architecture etc, Mombassa has so much history, the wildlife
parks, lakes, the list goes on. There are so many natural resources;
fossil fuel, fruit, tourism, foodstuff, Tusker Beer , the list is
endless. And yet the country is **** poor and corrupt to the hilt. It is
incredible that the people there are so educated, speak English so well,
but are forced to rip off tourists and each other.

It is certainly not 'like any city', I have parked an open top Jeep
Wrangler (no doors, roof etc) in the parking lot of a busy shopping mall
in Oman and left my wallet on the passenger seat and come back an hour
later and it is still there. Even in Hong Kong taxi drivers return
suitcases of cash to their owners for no personal reward.


--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

In message , Peter Gower
writes
Hi again, Pat!! Hans-Georg said it well: people living there have come
to accept the present standard as the norm. To a visitor it is shocking.
I don't think there is anywhere in the west where ladies come to work
without jewellery, and then put it on at work, because of serious danger
of theft from their fellow countrypeople.

Peter,
I can understand why it happens, even though it`s strange to you and I.
I have a good friend in Nairobi, Jenny, who was born in Kenya and has
a film production company there. When we`ve stayed with Jenny and her
husband, she told me that she had put away her gold jewellery and
started to wear silver, since doing that nobody has bothered her! It`s
gold that is the attraction as it`s more valuable.
In twenty years of living in and visiting Kenya, we only had one
incident and that was an inside job. We used to stay at the Sindbad
hotel in Malindi, which sadly has now become derelict, and one night
somebody removed the mosquito netting and removed some louvre windows,
climbed in and stole money, travellers cheques etc. I woke up and saw
the chap getting out of the window! It was the room cleaners son.
Pat
--
Pat Anderson

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
"kees" wrote:


I have been mugged once in my life, in Rome, during the day. Well, at least
they tried to....


Me too, by a gang of children in front of the main station. I
had to shake them off somewhat vigorously, but the biggest
surprise for me was that the adult people around obviously saw
this as absolutely normal.

Totally unimaginable in Germany, for example, where there is a
"culture" of people watching over each other (which sometimes
goes too far in the other direction for some peoples' taste).

Hans-Georg

Get real. Wake up.
In Germany you can rob someone and no one reacts, afraid that they
themselves are assaulted. All you can hope others call the police.

Pat Anderson wrote:

I thought Gary had it right, as he lives there, I know you have been
this year Hans Georg, and I haven`t been since 1999. I`m still in touch
all the time with friends who live in Nairobi and they haven`t reported
anything out of the ordinary.

Pat,

people don't like to talk about these things. You don't walk
around telling people that you've been robbed and raped
recently. Some people do tell though.

Another effect is that people always try to make the best of it.
Somebody who lives in Nairobi and doesnt emigrate doesn't walk
around telling people what a bad choice he's made.

On the other hand I don't want to exaggerate either, but we've
seen the study putting Nairobi next to Johannesburg in terms of
crime. (I think I posted it here some time ago.)

I do drive into and through Nairobi, even at night, but I take
several precautions before I do that, and constantly assess the
risk. People in Nairobi, for example, tell me not to stop at the
Uhuru Highway traffic lights, but instead drive right through at
night, because there have been many cases of cars being attacked
when they stop there.

One of the more common crimes is that your type of car happens
to be on the order list of some carjackers. They will stop you,
hold a gun under your nose and put you in the trunk. Then they
will drive out into some less inhabited area and leave you
there. If you're lucky, you stay alive and healthy. I could name
a woman I know personally, to whom this has happened, but you
have to believe me, because I should not publish names in this
way here. I could name a man who was driving in Nairobi when
people in another car tried to stop him. He used his big Pajero
to ram their car, but when he did that, they startet shooting at
him. He hadn't seen the pistol before. He fled out of his car in
dense traffic and ran away, hiding among the many pedestrians on
the road. He was merely lucky to survive. And these are just
stories from personal friends. There aren't that many people in
Nairobi who have no such story to tell.

I`m surprised I didn`t see you in the eighties around Nairobi Hans
Georg. I used to walk around on my own shopping and having coffee etc!

Hehe, who knows, we may have passed each other a few times in
town. :-)

But I guess you can confirm that Nairobi was very pleasant in
those days, compared to today.

Hans-Georg

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No mail, please.

men wrote:

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

"kees" wrote:

I have been mugged once in my life, in Rome, during the day. Well, at least
they tried to....

Me too, by a gang of children in front of the main station. I
had to shake them off somewhat vigorously, but the biggest
surprise for me was that the adult people around obviously saw
this as absolutely normal.

Totally unimaginable in Germany, for example, where there is a
"culture" of people watching over each other (which sometimes
goes too far in the other direction for some peoples' taste).

Get real. Wake up.
In Germany you can rob someone and no one reacts, afraid that they
themselves are assaulted. All you can hope others call the police.

True, but not when the misbehaving persons are children.

Also indifference and fear are two different things.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.