Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop, the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

I think that at best, this is a huge waste of government resources. If they
are really looking for illegal aliens, they know where to look: the work
places where the illegals work for peanuts. If they are looking for
terrorists, then they should concentrate on the borders and international
airline terminals.

At it's worst, it reeks of countries where you can be stopped at any time
and place and asked to present your papers.

I wonder what the response would have been if I answered "American citizen"
but in a foreign accent.

--
Bill in Schenectady

Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop, the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady

You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.


Fred Ellis
--
Who do you serve. . . . And who do you trust?
(To e-mail me, remove the X from my address)

"Fred Ellis" wrote in message
...
Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation
by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I
heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned
that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving
on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except
for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady

You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.


Fred Ellis
--

I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.

Bill in Schenectady wrote:


I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.



I live 6 miles from the Mexican border. The Border Patrol does its job
but illegals do slip through. Many, many of them are caught at
checkpoints along US 281 and US 77. Those checkpoints are located 70+
miles north of the Rio Grande.

The local media reports on the catching of illegal immigrants and drug
shipments at these checkpoints on an almost daily basis.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
Bill in Schenectady wrote:


I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.

I live 6 miles from the Mexican border. The Border Patrol does its job but
illegals do slip through. Many, many of them are caught at checkpoints
along US 281 and US 77. Those checkpoints are located 70+ miles north of
the Rio Grande.

The local media reports on the catching of illegal immigrants and drug
shipments at these checkpoints on an almost daily basis.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

I suppose I shouldn't compare the southern border with the northern.
Relatively few illegal immigrants come over from Canada. I rarely hear of
anyone being caught due to checkpoints near the Canadian border (or even at
the border itself). In fact, the guy with the TB case came across on the
I-87 crossing from Canada into New York State. He was on a watch list, and
border patrol just waved him through.

The same border patrol treated my family of four, with two teenaged girls,
rather roughly when we came through the same crossing last year. They
showed us who was boss, but didn't catch someone on a watch list.

On Jul 14, 7:53 pm, "Bill in Schenectady" wrote:
"Janet Wilder" wrote in message

...





Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.

I live 6 miles from the Mexican border. The Border Patrol does its job but
illegals do slip through. Many, many of them are caught at checkpoints
along US 281 and US 77. Those checkpoints are located 70+ miles north of
the Rio Grande.

The local media reports on the catching of illegal immigrants and drug
shipments at these checkpoints on an almost daily basis.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

I suppose I shouldn't compare the southern border with the northern.
Relatively few illegal immigrants come over from Canada.


Are you kidding me? The illegals from Canada just blend in more
easily. When the Canadian economy was bad the numbers probably rival
that of Mexico.


I rarely hear of
anyone being caught due to checkpoints near the Canadian border (or even at
the border itself).


Because it's so much easier for Canadians to come in as visitors.


In fact, the guy with the TB case came across on the
I-87 crossing from Canada into New York State. He was on a watch list, and
border patrol just waved him through.

The same border patrol treated my family of four, with two teenaged girls,
rather roughly when we came through the same crossing last year. They
showed us who was boss, but didn't catch someone on a watch list

On 2007-07-14 22:53:17 -0400, "Bill in Schenectady" said:

Relatively few illegal immigrants come over from Canada. I rarely hear of
anyone being caught due to checkpoints near the Canadian border (or even at
the border itself). In fact, the guy with the TB case came across on the
I-87 crossing from Canada into New York State. He was on a watch list, and
border patrol just waved him through.

There was also the little matter of an intended Arab bomber trying to
get through a checkpoint in Washington state back in 1999 or 2000.
Fortunately, he was caught at the border and put out of circulation.

On Jul 14, 7:32 pm, "Bill in Schenectady" wrote:
"Fred Ellis" wrote in message

...





Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation
by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I
heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned
that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving
on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except
for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady

You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.

Fred Ellis
--

I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders

That's a dumb statement. So you are saying they should not raid
illegal sweat shops in NYC or LA for illegal immigrants?

"PeterL" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 14, 7:32 pm, "Bill in Schenectady" wrote:
"Fred Ellis" wrote in message

...





Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country
vacation
by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of
the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to
Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo
stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded
and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is
an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I
heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train
that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it
doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned
that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than
driving
on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates
(except
for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada
and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper
passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady

You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a
half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.

Fred Ellis
--

I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack
Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders

That's a dumb statement. So you are saying they should not raid
illegal sweat shops in NYC or LA for illegal immigrants?

You just hit the nail on the head. Where are the illegal immigrants? They
are on the farms, in the sweat shops, cleaning your houses and keeping your
lawns and gardens. However, the government really doesn't want to hit too
hard in those locations because we LIKE the cheap labor! So they do some
token busts here and there just to give the public the illusion that they
are doing their job. Same with the road, train and bus stops. It is token.
It is an illusion. It is purely for show.

Bada bing Bill in Schenectady bada bang:
I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.


Not that it's a smarter place, but it seems to have moved about
another fifty miles south. My son and I went through just
such a check on the way back from a visit to Plattsburgh. We
were allowed to proceed after a anwering with a convincing
"yes" to the question of our citizenship.

Mike "not that we'd lie" Yetto
--
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free
government ought to be to trust no man living with power to
endanger the public liberty."
- John Adams