Mum accused of trafficking daughter in airline blunder

B Vaughan wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:02:48 +0000, Lansbury
wrote:

It being rather quite at the airport at 2am I did some delving into TIM this
morning to see what it says, and I could make a guess at how this mixed up
happened.

TIM (Travel Information Manual) says that people traveling to Italy require a
passport except, and then goes into many exemptions to that requirement. One
of which is "a child, or any nationality, resident in an EU country". However
on reading the small print you realise that exemption only refers to children
traveling in a school party. The way it was laid out someone not taking the
time to read it fully could well have given the wrong answer.

No, because this child wasn't resident in the EU.

I thought the mother and child were resident in the UK?

In message , at 14:29:19 on
Sat, 4 Mar 2006, B Vaughan remarked:
TIM (Travel Information Manual) says that people traveling to Italy require a
passport except, and then goes into many exemptions to that requirement. One
of which is "a child, or any nationality, resident in an EU country". However
on reading the small print you realise that exemption only refers to children
traveling in a school party. The way it was laid out someone not taking the
time to read it fully could well have given the wrong answer.

No, because this child wasn't resident in the EU.

Well, it wasn't in a school party, so it hardly matters; but the child
was resident in the UK because it was born in the UK [OK we are assuming
that, but I doubt the mother had travelled to the UK from outside the EU
in the previous 3 weeks].
--
Roland Perry

B Vaughan wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:02:48 +0000, Lansbury
wrote:


It being rather quite at the airport at 2am I did some delving into TIM this
morning to see what it says, and I could make a guess at how this mixed up
happened.

TIM (Travel Information Manual) says that people traveling to Italy require a
passport except, and then goes into many exemptions to that requirement. One
of which is "a child, or any nationality, resident in an EU country". However
on reading the small print you realise that exemption only refers to children
traveling in a school party. The way it was laid out someone not taking the
time to read it fully could well have given the wrong answer.


No, because this child wasn't resident in the EU.



I wonder. The article says that she was born in OZ it does not specify
her residency. If she is a UK resident then her child is a UK citizen
and thus an EU resident. Alternately the dad appears to be Italian in
which case it is likely that the kid is also an Italian citizen and thus
an EU resident.

The problem appears to be one of documentation but I see no reason to
not expect EU residency.

B Vaughan wrote:

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:08:21 -0800, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:


Well, to that extent, you're probably right! At least it
beats all the mindless sitcoms and "reality TV" shows that
monopolize most of our networks. Aside from reruns of the
various incarnations of "Law and Order" and "CSI", what else
is there to watch?


Don't watch the "least awful"! Read a book instead!

I often do - the problem is that when I sit down, I
generally have a cat constantly interposing itself between
me and the printed page! (It's sometimes difficult to use
the keyboard around one, too.)

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:43:03 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
wrote:



B Vaughan wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:02:48 +0000, Lansbury
wrote:


It being rather quite at the airport at 2am I did some delving into TIM this
morning to see what it says, and I could make a guess at how this mixed up
happened.

TIM (Travel Information Manual) says that people traveling to Italy require a
passport except, and then goes into many exemptions to that requirement. One
of which is "a child, or any nationality, resident in an EU country". However
on reading the small print you realise that exemption only refers to children
traveling in a school party. The way it was laid out someone not taking the
time to read it fully could well have given the wrong answer.


No, because this child wasn't resident in the EU.



I wonder. The article says that she was born in OZ it does not specify
her residency. If she is a UK resident then her child is a UK citizen
and thus an EU resident. Alternately the dad appears to be Italian in
which case it is likely that the kid is also an Italian citizen and thus
an EU resident.

In Italy, residence is entirely different from citizenship.. In Italy,
you can be a resident without being a citizen and you can be a citizen
without being a resident. Your residence has to be formally declared
in a town register. I was a resident of Italy for five years before
becoming a citizen. My husband's son is an Italian citizen by birth,
but he has been living in the US for the past 10 years and is no
longer an Italian resident because he went to our "comune" and gave
notice of nonresidence.

In Italy a baby couldn't be a resident, even if it was born there,
unless its parent(s) have residency. Likewise, it couldn't be a
citizen merely because it was born in Italy. It appears from what you
say that it works differently in the UK. I thought the US was one of a
very few countries to automatically give citizenship to anyone born
within its borders, even if only in transit.


The problem appears to be one of documentation but I see no reason to
not expect EU residency.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


B Vaughan wrote:

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:08:21 -0800, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:


Well, to that extent, you're probably right! At least it beats all the
mindless sitcoms and "reality TV" shows that monopolize most of our
networks. Aside from reruns of the various incarnations of "Law and
Order" and "CSI", what else is there to watch?


Don't watch the "least awful"! Read a book instead!

I often do - the problem is that when I sit down, I generally have a cat
constantly interposing itself between me and the printed page! (It's
sometimes difficult to use the keyboard around one, too.)


You are lucky that you are able to sit down on the cat's chair. You don't
think that it is your house, do you?

JohnT

In message , at 21:47:24 on
Sat, 4 Mar 2006, B Vaughan remarked:

In Italy, residence is entirely different from citizenship.. In Italy,
you can be a resident without being a citizen and you can be a citizen
without being a resident.

Same in UK.

Your residence has to be formally declared in a town register.

Different in UK. Residency for the parent is agreed by the government,
residency for a child of the parent would be automatic.

In Italy a baby couldn't be a resident, even if it was born there,
unless its parent(s) have residency.

We are assuming the mother has UK residency, rather than being a tourist
who suddenly gave birth in the UK.

--
Roland Perry

B Vaughan wrote:
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:43:03 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
wrote:



B Vaughan wrote:


On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:02:48 +0000, Lansbury
wrote:



It being rather quite at the airport at 2am I did some delving into TIM this
morning to see what it says, and I could make a guess at how this mixed up
happened.

TIM (Travel Information Manual) says that people traveling to Italy require a
passport except, and then goes into many exemptions to that requirement. One
of which is "a child, or any nationality, resident in an EU country". However
on reading the small print you realise that exemption only refers to children
traveling in a school party. The way it was laid out someone not taking the
time to read it fully could well have given the wrong answer.


No, because this child wasn't resident in the EU.



I wonder. The article says that she was born in OZ it does not specify
her residency. If she is a UK resident then her child is a UK citizen
and thus an EU resident. Alternately the dad appears to be Italian in
which case it is likely that the kid is also an Italian citizen and thus
an EU resident.


In Italy, residence is entirely different from citizenship.. In Italy,
you can be a resident without being a citizen and you can be a citizen
without being a resident. Your residence has to be formally declared
in a town register. I was a resident of Italy for five years before
becoming a citizen. My husband's son is an Italian citizen by birth,
but he has been living in the US for the past 10 years and is no
longer an Italian resident because he went to our "comune" and gave
notice of nonresidence.

In Italy a baby couldn't be a resident, even if it was born there,
unless its parent(s) have residency. Likewise, it couldn't be a
citizen merely because it was born in Italy. It appears from what you
say that it works differently in the UK. I thought the US was one of a
very few countries to automatically give citizenship to anyone born
within its borders, even if only in transit.


The US is still strange in that respect. In the UK, as I understand it
check with a legal advisor if interested, you get citizenship at birth
if a parent is a legal resident of the UK & the birth is there.

As you say, in the US residence does not matter.

One strange feature of US citizenship laws is that foreign born children
of US citizens may not be US citizens unless the parents have spent
significant time in the US.



The problem appears to be one of documentation but I see no reason to
not expect EU residency.

JohnT wrote:

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
...


B Vaughan wrote:


On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:08:21 -0800, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:



Well, to that extent, you're probably right! At least it beats all the
mindless sitcoms and "reality TV" shows that monopolize most of our
networks. Aside from reruns of the various incarnations of "Law and
Order" and "CSI", what else is there to watch?


Don't watch the "least awful"! Read a book instead!

I often do - the problem is that when I sit down, I generally have a cat
constantly interposing itself between me and the printed page! (It's
sometimes difficult to use the keyboard around one, too.)



You are lucky that you are able to sit down on the cat's chair. You don't
think that it is your house, do you?

Of course not - being a devoted catslave, I know my place!
(But watching TV leaves my lap free for lounging felines
to enjoy, without their being inconvenienced by my reading
matter.) ;-)

In message , at 00:57:10 on
Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Frank F. Matthews
remarked:
One strange feature of US citizenship laws is that foreign born
children of US citizens may not be US citizens unless the parents have
spent significant time in the US.

Yes, if your American grandparents moved to (say) the UK when they were
adults, your parents would be American citizens when born in the UK.
However, if your parents then lived in UK from birth then they are
unlikely to be able to pass their citizenship to you when you were born
in the UK.

Rumour has it that the Irish are the other extreme - find one Irish
grandparent and ignore everything that's happened in between, and you
can have an Irish passport.

--
Roland Perry