Orbitz lost ticket & won't reissue

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:18:37 +0100 Hilary wrote:

: : I purchased round trip tickets last March 20th. I went through Orbitz and was
: : only offered the paper ticket option. They were to be here by now but weren't
: : so I called Orbitz. I was informed Orbitz had mailed them, and could not
: : reissue or remail and so I need to repurchased these round trip, coast to coast
: : tickets.

: : They want me to send the old tickets back and THEN they will mail me new
: : ones....duh.

: : Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get Orbitz to remail these tickets?

: :So it's not that *Orbitz* lost the ticket, but that the mail service did?

: It doesn't matter.

: Orbitz is responsible to make sure that the goods get delivered.

:After they have dispatched the tickets, they are no longer in Orbitz'
:control.

But not out of their responsibility.

: Orbitz may have a cause of action against the delivery service, but it is not
: the responsibility of their client to run it down.

:No, but if Orbitz aren't being overly helpful then it's wise to do things
:yourself to make sure they're being done.

"it is not the responsibility of their client to run it down."

: :File a complaint that with the relevant mail service. (I'm presuming
: :you had just used regular mail, not anything trackable.)

: He didn't do anything.

: Orbitz did.

:They don't offer a choice? I know we do. We don't send tickets out first
:class unless we explicitly tell the customer that if the tickets get lost
:in the post, there will be reissue charges unless they take the slightly
:more expensive option of insured, trackable and guaranteed mail. (Only
:costs 5GBP.)

If you get a signature on that, it MAY be worth something. But I wouldn't bet
on it.

: :Then contact the airline, say your ticket was lost in the post. They
: :won't reissue tickets, or authorise their reissue, until a day or two
: :before travel, in case they turn up.

: :You shouldn't need to pay again, but if the original tickets turn up
: :afterwards you will need to send them back. There will be reissue charges
: :for the tickets, though.

: If there is, the portion of the charge should be refused. Orbitz failed to
: deliver the goods.

:Orbitz are not the delivering agent. If there are reissue charges, the
:customer will need to pay them unless Orbitz made an error with the
:address.

They are responsible to deliver the goods.

: :And in future, always pay the extra to get any paper tickets send by an
: :insured and trackable service.

: It is the vendors aka Orbitz's responsibility to deliver the goods.

:It is their responsibility to *dispatch* the goods correctly and in good
:time. What the post office does with them afterwards is not Orbitz'
:fault. Either way, it doesn't help the customer.

As the goods did not arrive, Orbitz has failed to deliver them.

It does not matter which agency they used to attempt the delivery.

Their responsibility does not end until the goods are received in good order.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Hilary wrote:
So it's not that *Orbitz* lost the ticket, but that the mail service did?
File a complaint that with the relevant mail service. (I'm presuming
you had just used regular mail, not anything trackable.)


Depends on the mail service. Many will only allow the sender to file a
complaint.


--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:26:11 +0100 Hilary wrote:

: : He didn't do anything.

: : Orbitz did.

: :They don't offer a choice? I know we do. We don't send tickets out first
: :class unless we explicitly tell the customer that if the tickets get lost
: :in the post, there will be reissue charges unless they take the slightly
: :more expensive option of insured, trackable and guaranteed mail. (Only
: :costs 5GBP.)

: If you get a signature on that, it MAY be worth something. But I wouldn't bet
: on it.

:It's trackable, signed for, and guaranteed by 12.30 the next day.

I meant the client.

: : :And in future, always pay the extra to get any paper tickets send by an
: : :insured and trackable service.

: : It is the vendors aka Orbitz's responsibility to deliver the goods.

: :It is their responsibility to *dispatch* the goods correctly and in good
: :time. What the post office does with them afterwards is not Orbitz'
: :fault. Either way, it doesn't help the customer.

: As the goods did not arrive, Orbitz has failed to deliver them.

: It does not matter which agency they used to attempt the delivery.

: Their responsibility does not end until the goods are received in good order.

:Really? US law must be very different from UK law in this regard. If a
:retailer has dispatched goods in the manner requested to the correct
:address, it is not their fault if the goods fail to arrive.

In the USA it is the UCC.

If the goods are not received, they need not be paid for.

:Many industries can replace goods for not much extra, but airline tickets
:have different regulations. The airlines will not permit replacement
:tickets to be issued more than about 2 days prior to departure and yes,
:most have reissue charges for tickets lost in the post. The customer may
:be able to claim those charges back from the mail service, the credit card
:company or from travel insurance, but the charges need to be paid for the
:ticket to be reissued.

The CC company will then charge it back to Orbitz, as they failed to deliver
the goods.

:The customer can ask if they can be reissued as e-tickets, but reissue
:charges may still apply.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

"Hilary" wrote in message
...
: He didn't do anything.


Really? US law must be very different from UK law in this regard. If a
retailer has dispatched goods in the manner requested to the correct
address, it is not their fault if the goods fail to arrive.


No, but, the responsibility is with the sender to ensure that the goods have
arrived. The sender "contracts" a courier to deliver the goods. If the
goods do not arrive the courier (contractor) has failed the sender and
therefore the sender has the responsibility to sort out the problem with the
courier. If, in this case, it means ensuring tickets are reissued to the
recipient (at no cost to the repient) then so be it. The sender will have
to seek compensation from the courier. It is not the responsibility of the
recipient to do so.

In this case the Travel Agent has a contract with the Courier and the
Traveller.
The Traveller has only a contact with the Travel Agent. It is irrelevant how
the Traveller is to recieve the tickets as long as the Travel Agent gets
them there.


Hilary

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:36:17 +0300, Binyamin Dissen
wrote:

In the USA it is the UCC.

If the goods are not received, they need not be paid for.


A bit over general. It's "unless otherwise agreed" the "f.o.b. point"
is the buyer's location. Contracting parties can agree to any f.o.b.
point, and it is often supplier's premises. Orbitz appears not to
specify but they do warn that if mailed tickets do not arrive the
buyer will be liabile for reissue costs.

Warning to non-Americans, we have a totally different definition of
f.o.b. than is found in Incoterms.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:00:06 +0100, Hilary wrote:

I purchased round trip tickets last March 20th. I went through Orbitz and was
only offered the paper ticket option. They were to be here by now but weren't
so I called Orbitz. I was informed Orbitz had mailed them, and could not
reissue or remail and so I need to repurchased these round trip, coast to coast
tickets.

They want me to send the old tickets back and THEN they will mail me new
ones....duh.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get Orbitz to remail these tickets?

So it's not that *Orbitz* lost the ticket, but that the mail service did?

Who cares? That's still Orbitz until I get my ticket.

Contractual obligation is that they get the ticket to me. Whther it's
their dog that chewed it or their mail service that delivered it to my
neighbor is immaterial.

The mail is *their* subcontractor. Same as if it were them directly.
none of my business.

Their obligation is not just to put the ticket in the mail, but to get it
into my hands.

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:26:11 +0100, Hilary wrote:


Really? US law must be very different from UK law in this regard. If a
retailer has dispatched goods in the manner requested to the correct
address, it is not their fault if the goods fail to arrive.

????


Where do get that idea from?

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:34:50 +0100, Hilary wrote:

Really? US law must be very different from UK law in this regard. If a
retailer has dispatched goods in the manner requested to the correct
address, it is not their fault if the goods fail to arrive.

????


Where do get that idea from?

Unless it was mis-addressed, it is not the fault of the retailer if the
post office, for example, loses it or causes it to be delayed. Why should
it be? And if the customer chooses to have the ticket sent by a method of
post that involves risk with no insurance, then the customer needs to pay
the reissue charges.

The post office works for them. It's an internal business between them
and their subcontractor. None of my business. The onus is on them to
deliver to me.

Same issue as if their dog chewed it. It's surely the dog's fault, not
theirs. :-)

Hilary wrote:
Really? US law must be very different from UK law in this regard. If a
retailer has dispatched goods in the manner requested to the correct
address, it is not their fault if the goods fail to arrive.

????


Where do get that idea from?


Unless it was mis-addressed, it is not the fault of the retailer if the
post office, for example, loses it or causes it to be delayed. Why should
it be? And if the customer chooses to have the ticket sent by a method of
post that involves risk with no insurance, then the customer needs to pay
the reissue charges.

The customer didn't get the product. In every case I have had a problem
with this, the supplier resent the item or gave me credit. Its not like
the issuer couldn't have the ticket declared invalid and issue another
one. The credit card purchase law in the US indicates that the charge
can be challenged if the item has not be RECEIVED.

Hilary muttered....



That's the point I made in a previous post. It's not that easy. If
tickets were lost in the post the airlines won't let you reissue until
a couple of days before travel, and then there *are* reissue charges
from most airlines.

The "airline" is not a direct party to the transaction, no more than Ford
would be if you went to a Ford dealer, paid the price and was assured that
your new Ford would be delivered to your home.

Orbitz is guilty of a failure to deliver as agreed and "contracted".

The purchaser has a right (and in my best guess is most credit card issuers
would concur) to cancel the transaction.

Where the purchaser may stand to lose is in the inability to purchase a a
replacement ticket for the same price. He might have a successful case
against Orbitz - where do you serve Orbitz? - in small claims court for the
difference between the Orbitz price and the cost of a ticket purchased
later, but the time and effort required likely offset the modest recovery,
for damages beyond compensatory are difficult to obtain in most
jurisdictions without establishing negligence or malice.

TMO