Sign of the times: Celebrity pulls cruise ship from Europe for 2010

[Default] Thus spake frijoli :

Mark (SF) wrote:

I wanted to strangle my stepsister and her husband when they vetoed a
school trip from Michigan with her class band to London for their
middle school daughter (who is a very intelligent, independent girl)
because they felt it would be too dangerous.

Mark

Well it's none of your business anyway. The world is a dangerous place
today. More so than it used to be. If the daughter was 18 and could pay
her way then let her go, otherwise the parents make the best decision
possible, based on what they think is right and fits there overall values.

Sorry, but intelligence and independence don't necessarily make things
safer.

Clay

Clay, with your logic about "danger", you should probably stay home.
Except for the dangers inherent with staying home.

Do some risk analysis. A(H1N1), for instance. How many people in
Mexico have contracted it? Out of how big a population?

It seems that the world has become so rick averse that we are afraid
of our own shadows. From Kennedy's speach to Armstong's speach was a
little over 6 years. From Apollo 1 to Apollo 7 was about 20 months.
It took two years of over analysis to get the STS back into space.

--

- dillon I am not invalid

The RMS Titanic sank on April 15th. US income taxes
are due on April 15th. Coincidence? I think not.

On May 10, 3:43*pm, frijoli wrote:
Mark (SF) wrote:
On May 10, 9:49 am, frijoli wrote:
Mark (SF) wrote:
I wanted to strangle my stepsister and her husband when they vetoed a
school trip from Michigan with her class band to London for their
middle school daughter (who is a very intelligent, independent girl)
because they felt it would be too dangerous.
Mark
Well it's none of your business anyway. The world is a dangerous place
today. More so than it used to be. If the daughter was 18 and could pay
her way then let her go, otherwise the parents make the best decision
possible, based on what they think is right and fits there overall values.

Sorry, but intelligence and independence don't necessarily make things
safer.

Clay

Agreed their decision is none of my business - and of course I said
nothing.
It is totally up to them to make the decisions to best protect and
nurture their daughter - but I mention it as an example of some of the
xenophobic thinking I see often. Including in this newsgroup.

...and I don't know what measurement you're using to calculate risk,
but I'm not sure that a school trip to London is riskier than their
common trips to Detroit, 30 miles away.

Mark

What makes them xenophobic? Just because they don't view things your
way? You think their concerns was unfounded which is fine, but it
doesn't mean it's not a real concern.

How many children do you have Mark? How many have you raised to adulthood?

I was ridiculed for taking my son on cruises when he was supposed to be
in school. I controlled the situation then, and I did it when I could
supervise what he did and what happened around him. I think he learned
more on the week he was off than he did that week at school.

Same as going to London. If I could have gone with him, then he could
go. If not, he doesn't go. Does that make me a xenophobe too?

Silly argument in my opinion.

Clay

Clay,

I don't know about your son, I DO know about my niece, my family and
the people I grew up with in Michigan. To be frank given the little
information presented, it's as unfounded for you to defend the
rationale of the parents as it is for Charles to say it's OK. In this
case, they were acting what appeared to me to be unfounded fears of
"non-America" rather than an objective consideration of the facts.

I don't know if you're a xenophobe, Clay. I do know that there are a
large number of people who are scared of travel beyond our borders and
limit themselves and their families because of irrational fears.

Mark

[Default] Thus spake "Mark (SF)" :

On May 10, 9:49*am, frijoli wrote:
Mark (SF) wrote:
I wanted to strangle my stepsister and her husband when they vetoed a
school trip from Michigan with her class band to London for their
middle school daughter (who is a very intelligent, independent girl)
because they felt it would be too dangerous.

Mark

Well it's none of your business anyway. The world is a dangerous place
today. More so than it used to be. If the daughter was 18 and could pay
her way then let her go, otherwise the parents make the best decision
possible, based on what they think is right and fits there overall values.

Sorry, but intelligence and independence don't necessarily make things
safer.

Clay

Agreed their decision is none of my business - and of course I said
nothing.
It is totally up to them to make the decisions to best protect and
nurture their daughter - but I mention it as an example of some of the
xenophobic thinking I see often. Including in this newsgroup.

...and I don't know what measurement you're using to calculate risk,
but I'm not sure that a school trip to London is riskier than their
common trips to Detroit, 30 miles away.


Detroit is usually within the top three in murders per capita, isn't
it?

Mark
--

- dillon I am not invalid

The RMS Titanic sank on April 15th. US income taxes
are due on April 15th. Coincidence? I think not.

Dillon Pyron wrote:
[Default] Thus spake frijoli :

Mark (SF) wrote:

I wanted to strangle my stepsister and her husband when they vetoed a
school trip from Michigan with her class band to London for their
middle school daughter (who is a very intelligent, independent girl)
because they felt it would be too dangerous.

Mark
Well it's none of your business anyway. The world is a dangerous place
today. More so than it used to be. If the daughter was 18 and could pay
her way then let her go, otherwise the parents make the best decision
possible, based on what they think is right and fits there overall values.

Sorry, but intelligence and independence don't necessarily make things
safer.

Clay

Clay, with your logic about "danger", you should probably stay home.
Except for the dangers inherent with staying home.

Do some risk analysis. A(H1N1), for instance. How many people in
Mexico have contracted it? Out of how big a population?

It seems that the world has become so rick averse that we are afraid
of our own shadows. From Kennedy's speach to Armstong's speach was a
little over 6 years. From Apollo 1 to Apollo 7 was about 20 months.
It took two years of over analysis to get the STS back into space.


What the hell are you on about? I didn't say it was more dangerous I
said the "world" was more dangerous than it used to be, by a large
margin. I said one, it none of his business how they raise their
daughter, and two, just because Mark perceives dangers one way doesn't
make HIM correct.

They have to make decisions based on their understanding of what is
happening and whether they think it's acceptable for their daughter.
That doesn't make them xenophobic, or any other phobic for that matter.

I'll go wherever I wish to thanks. I never said I was afraid.

Clay

Mark (SF) wrote:
On May 10, 3:43 pm, frijoli wrote:
Mark (SF) wrote:
On May 10, 9:49 am, frijoli wrote:
Mark (SF) wrote:
I wanted to strangle my stepsister and her husband when they vetoed a
school trip from Michigan with her class band to London for their
middle school daughter (who is a very intelligent, independent girl)
because they felt it would be too dangerous.
Mark
Well it's none of your business anyway. The world is a dangerous place
today. More so than it used to be. If the daughter was 18 and could pay
her way then let her go, otherwise the parents make the best decision
possible, based on what they think is right and fits there overall values.
Sorry, but intelligence and independence don't necessarily make things
safer.
Clay
Agreed their decision is none of my business - and of course I said
nothing.
It is totally up to them to make the decisions to best protect and
nurture their daughter - but I mention it as an example of some of the
xenophobic thinking I see often. Including in this newsgroup.
...and I don't know what measurement you're using to calculate risk,
but I'm not sure that a school trip to London is riskier than their
common trips to Detroit, 30 miles away.
Mark
What makes them xenophobic? Just because they don't view things your
way? You think their concerns was unfounded which is fine, but it
doesn't mean it's not a real concern.

How many children do you have Mark? How many have you raised to adulthood?

I was ridiculed for taking my son on cruises when he was supposed to be
in school. I controlled the situation then, and I did it when I could
supervise what he did and what happened around him. I think he learned
more on the week he was off than he did that week at school.

Same as going to London. If I could have gone with him, then he could
go. If not, he doesn't go. Does that make me a xenophobe too?

Silly argument in my opinion.

Clay

Clay,

I don't know about your son, I DO know about my niece, my family and
the people I grew up with in Michigan. To be frank given the little
information presented, it's as unfounded for you to defend the
rationale of the parents as it is for Charles to say it's OK. In this
case, they were acting what appeared to me to be unfounded fears of
"non-America" rather than an objective consideration of the facts.

I don't know if you're a xenophobe, Clay. I do know that there are a
large number of people who are scared of travel beyond our borders and
limit themselves and their families because of irrational fears.

Mark

I'm sure you 'think' you know your niece, however the keyword there is
niece. Not "I know my child". I suspect the parents know more about her.
That's just a guess though. How old was this girl at the time?

I was defending their rights as parents, not necessarily their
rationale. It's still only your opinion about their reason for their
decision, but it's their business either way.

Until you raise your own children you really don't have any idea what
your talking about.

I have no fear of traveling to other lands, but I wouldn't travel to
some jungles of some South American countries either. Am I a xenophobe
because of that?

Define the percentage of xenophobes in relation to a LARGE number.

Irrational is an opinion in this context.

Clay

Charles wrote:
In article
,
Warren wrote:

Because Europe is far more interesting with the ability to take many
cruises without repeating a single port.

But to me taking a cruise to Europe means missing a lot of what is
interesting in Europe.

I like cruises to the Caribbean to relax. And I am a beach person. I
love laying on a beautiful beach and going into the warm clear water in
the Caribbean.


I'm with Charles on this one. Would much rather do Europe by land.
Although...greek islands and black sea....hmmmmm....

Jeff