If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
"intruder" wrote in message ... You mean the Jay who cleans toilets in KL is more wortful than other Malaysians. Nah What's wrong with a job as a toilet cleaner ? Rowani |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
"Rowani" schreef in bericht news "intruder" wrote in message ... You mean the Jay who cleans toilets in KL is more wortful than other Malaysians. Nah What's wrong with a job as a toilet cleaner ? Rowani nothing, as long as he isn't a muslim |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
It never amazes me how a troll can come into a group,make an outlandish
statement and sit back and probably delight in the big furor he caused.And apparently there is no shortage of dim-wits who fall for this childish game. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
"Brian Orion" schreef in bericht ... It never amazes me how a troll can come into a group,make an outlandish statement and sit back and probably delight in the big furor he caused.And apparently there is no shortage of dim-wits who fall for this childish game. you are absolutely right, but you forgot to mention that the real cause is in the evil islam |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
mark wrote in message ...
Pan wrote in : The one good characteristic of Muslims is that they frequently commit suicide. Commiting suicide is against Islam. Whoever commit suicide will go to hell. Those who commit sucide are not racticing the true teaching of Islam. Right, but the claim by the advocates of suicide terrorism is always that it is martyrdom (shahid), not suicide. martyrdom = your enemies kill you suicide = you kill yourself deliberately The correct English word is definitely suicide. What other interpretations does shahid have? For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims follow. First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of the Ulama or Scholars) The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should do. So, they rely on the hadiths. The hadiths compliment the Qur'an. But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the Qur'an and hadiths. For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So, the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from a married couple. Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide" that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide" which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air. Some say its "syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us, our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there is still no concensus about it. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
"ajali" wrote in message om... For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims follow. First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of the Ulama or Scholars) The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should do. So, they rely on the hadiths. So how do you know the Hadiths actually are not false, MORON? The hadiths compliment the Qur'an. How so? You just said if its not in the Quran... the Hadith was relied on... So thats in ADDITION to the Quran... not complimentary...you idiot. But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the Qur'an and hadiths. So they have ulamaks to make up stories and then attribute that to God? LIARs. For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So, the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from a married couple. And MORONs like you then claim that their decision is "Islamic" and that its unIslamic to go against you ulamak? Tell us how in the above process can anyone be sure that God actually agree to all thats been determined by your ulamak? And if you cannot, how do you then claim later or that the ulamaks decision is from God or part of God's edict to humans? LYING ingrates. Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide" that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide" which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air. Tell us... great LIAR.... Where can we find hadiths (you did say that you rely on hadiths for guidance) that mentiond that the prophet asked his people to commit suicide as you suggest against the pagan Arabs back then who outnumber them. LIAR. Some say its "syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us, our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there is still no concensus about it. What make you think that "consensus" equates to God's will? MORON. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Typical Muslim fascism
"Observer" wrote in message ...
"ajali" wrote in message om... For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims follow. First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of the Ulama or Scholars) The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should do. So, they rely on the hadiths. So how do you know the Hadiths actually are not false? Do you ever hear words like methodology, validity, reliability, trustworthiness? The scholars only accepted hadiths reported by several researchers like Bukhari &muslim, At Tarmidzi but reject others. But of course nobody knows 100 % sure. Even in a scientificc study, the researchers use "margin of error". The hadiths compliment the Qur'an. How so? You just said if its not in the Quran... the Hadith was relied on... So thats in ADDITION to the Quran... not complimentary. I said when thr Qur'an did not explained clearly....so the hadiths compliment the Qur'an....not addition. But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the Qur'an and hadiths. So they have ulamaks to make up stories and then attribute that to God? Their judgement were based on their scholarships. The ulamaks in many ways can be considered as religios scientists. They are the people who have done all the study.....just like we rely on experts and scientists advices or judgements because of their work. For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So, the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from a married couple. And you claim that their decision is "Islamic" and that its unIslamic to go against you ulamak? Whoelse can you rely on if not the people who spend time to study it. Anybody can be the ulamaks but they have to do all the work to reach that status. Just like professors. If you do enough scholarships work, you will be awarded the professorship. I am sure you have heard the word "teacher" "tutor", "lecture", assistant prof. Professor, adjunct. prof.......Its the same thing ...."guru", "imam", "ustaz", "Kadi" and "ulamak". The ulamaks is just ordinary people but because of their knowledge and scholarships, they become the religious authority which in Islamic tradition we called them ulamaks....Some called it "ayatollah" - in Shia tradition. About going against the "ulamaks"......you can go againsts them. But you have to have more knowledge then them. But of course if you have reach that level, you are considered by many as ulamak themselves. So if that happen, its actually two different ulamaks who have differences. Nothing uncommon about that. Just like two scientists differ with each other. Tell us how in the above process can anyone be sure that God actually agree to all thats been determined by your ulamak? Nothing is 100 %. But the ulamaks are the scholars. They do all the study. They debate and the make consensus decision based on their knowledge. Just like scientists do.We trust the scientists because of their works. And if you cannot, how do you then claim later or that the ulamaks decision is from God or part of God's edict to humans? Ulamaks is just like you and me....human being, but they are the scholars. So we rely on their scholarship work. the more knowledge they have, the more reliable they can be. There is no 100 % guarantee. Thats why we hear debate all the time. Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide" that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide" which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air. Tell us... Where can we find hadiths (you did say that you rely on hadiths for guidance) that mentiond that the prophet asked his people to commit suicide as you suggest against the pagan Arabs back then who outnumber them. None. Nothing specific. Thats why you rely on the works of the ulamaks. They do the research. Ever heard the word "Qias"? Just like we rely on the work of scientists. I am sure you have seen the words like "indicate", "suggests" in research journals....The ulamaks use the same approach...look at the Qur'an, then hadiths, if its not clear, they sit down and debate it, and come out with a concensus. Sometimes, they get everybody agree on it, sometimes they reach through majority... To make it easier for you to understand, it more or less like a governing system - parliamentary for example, you have problem and need new law or revise the current law. What they do? Well, all the MP debate about the issue, and then finally pass a new law. So its the same process. The only different, this time its done by the Islamic scholars (the ulamaks) and they use religious sources to make their arguments. Some say its "syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us, our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there is still no concensus about it. What make you think that "consensus" equates to God's will? Thats the best human can do under those circumstances. We hope our efforts and our intention will be accepted by God. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|