French vote NO on European Constitution

Go Fig wrote:

In article 1gxcdu0.hu03hhoc5rptN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com,
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
wrote:

JohnT wrote:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
The French have voted against the European Constitution by a very large
majority.

You are referring to Exit Polls which may, or may not, be accurate.

Nowadays, I think you can safely say it will be accurate enough,

They were a complete failure in the recent nation elections in the
U.S..

which is why I added the following bit...

given
the percentages.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Go Fig wrote:

In article 1gxcdu0.hu03hhoc5rptN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com,
chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
wrote:

JohnT wrote:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
The French have voted against the European Constitution by a very large
majority.

You are referring to Exit Polls which may, or may not, be accurate.

Nowadays, I think you can safely say it will be accurate enough,

They were a complete failure in the recent nation elections in the
U.S..

which is why I added the following bit...

given
the percentages.

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
skrev i meddelandet
news:1gxcdu0.hu03hhoc5rptN%this_address_is_for_spa ...
JohnT wrote:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
The French have voted against the European Constitution by a very large
majority.

You are referring to Exit Polls which may, or may not, be accurate.

Nowadays, I think you can safely say it will be accurate enough, given
the percentages. The exit poll the BBC reported on just after the UK
polls closed for the recent general election here were very accurate, as
it turned out.
-------------------
Depends. The problem here is that there's nothing to compare with for the
computers.
Exit polls for parliament elections here in Sweden have been very accurate
but the referendum about membership in the EU was more problematic. The
computers pointed to a landslide of 60% from start which turned out to be
just little more than 50% in the end.
The problem was that big cities turned out to be mainly in favour of a yes
but the countryside and the north more in favour of a no.

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
skrev i meddelandet
news:1gxcdu0.hu03hhoc5rptN%this_address_is_for_spa ...
JohnT wrote:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
The French have voted against the European Constitution by a very large
majority.

You are referring to Exit Polls which may, or may not, be accurate.

Nowadays, I think you can safely say it will be accurate enough, given
the percentages. The exit poll the BBC reported on just after the UK
polls closed for the recent general election here were very accurate, as
it turned out.
-------------------
Depends. The problem here is that there's nothing to compare with for the
computers.
Exit polls for parliament elections here in Sweden have been very accurate
but the referendum about membership in the EU was more problematic. The
computers pointed to a landslide of 60% from start which turned out to be
just little more than 50% in the end.
The problem was that big cities turned out to be mainly in favour of a yes
but the countryside and the north more in favour of a no.

Runge writes:

Thanks
We all have a TV

I don't.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

On 29/05/05 22:20, in article
1gxcdu0.hu03hhoc5rptN%this_address_is_for_spam@yah oo.com, "chancellor of the
duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
wrote:

Nowadays, I think you can safely say it will be accurate enough, given
the percentages. The exit poll the BBC reported on just after the UK
polls closed for the recent general election here were very accurate, as
it turned out.


Indeed, the first projection was 54.5% "non" and it ended up a little
bigger, around 56.5%.

The issues were mostly personal, a poll of issues showed the "social"
protection issue by far number one.

The vote was partly driven by what I would call "reactionary sentiments".
The organized "nons" were groups like the far right. On the left the
split in the Socialist party weakens that organization while Chirac
has now been nearly politically castrated on the middle right.

The other anti-sentiment was against what I would call administrative
totalitarianism of the EU. In some respects, Herbert Marcuse correctly
predicted the world's move towards a "single dimensionally "managed"
system. However he did not anticipate economic glabalization when
in fact global capitalism narrows the choices to a single one of
following blinding along. The problem is not the constitution
but a predeterimed future which does not appear that great.

Americans feel better off but if one examines the economic evolution
of most of the population it also has not been great. Insecurity is
general in the western world.



Earl

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:23:34 +0100,
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
writes:

Yes- this is all going to be interesting I think- though I suppose the
result was no big surprise.

Nothing much will change. The status quo is maintained.

I don't agree that nothing will change. For a start, it will change the
situation in the UK- IOW, I don't think we'll be voting on it anytime
soon now...

I read the proposed consitution,

That makes you quite a rare bird then.

I read it too. My Spanish colleague has as well. Unfortunately the Austrian
government doesn't believe in democracy, so we didn't get to have a say.

--
Tim C.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:27:18 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

Many of the other countries that have ratified it have done so by the
simple expedient of never giving the population the change to express
its opinion in the first place. That's what Germany did.

Exactly.

And that's one of the problems with the proposed constitution: there is
very little democratic representation in the proposed structure.

Especially as it's being sold as a guardian of democracy and a way of
bringing the EU government closer to the people.
"We're all for democracy, as long as the common people don't have a say".

--
Tim C.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:28:11 +0200, nitram wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 08:49:48 +0200, Tim Challenger
wrote:

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:23:34 +0100,
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
writes:

Yes- this is all going to be interesting I think- though I suppose the
result was no big surprise.

Nothing much will change. The status quo is maintained.

I don't agree that nothing will change. For a start, it will change the
situation in the UK- IOW, I don't think we'll be voting on it anytime
soon now...

I read the proposed consitution,

That makes you quite a rare bird then.

I read it too. My Spanish colleague has as well. Unfortunately the Austrian
government doesn't believe in democracy, so we didn't get to have a say.

Expatriates in NL and France haven't been given a chance to vote.
This is odd as in both countries expats can vote in local and EU
elections.

soapbox on
So much for the "great democracy" and bringing government closer to the
people. Just this sort of arrogant, overhand behaviour on the part of the
governments is grounds enough to vote no/non/nein.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro the EU - *in principle* - but it's the way they
go about implementing it, with all their lies of democracy and the people's
wishes. It's becoming more of a gravy train and power trip for second-rate
politicians than ever before.
soapbox off
--
Tim C.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:49:44 +0200, nitram wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:45:05 +0200, Tim Challenger
wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:28:11 +0200, nitram wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2005 08:49:48 +0200, Tim Challenger
wrote:

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:23:34 +0100,
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
writes:

Yes- this is all going to be interesting I think- though I suppose the
result was no big surprise.

Nothing much will change. The status quo is maintained.

I don't agree that nothing will change. For a start, it will change the
situation in the UK- IOW, I don't think we'll be voting on it anytime
soon now...

I read the proposed consitution,

That makes you quite a rare bird then.

I read it too. My Spanish colleague has as well. Unfortunately the Austrian
government doesn't believe in democracy, so we didn't get to have a say.

Expatriates in NL and France haven't been given a chance to vote.
This is odd as in both countries expats can vote in local and EU
elections.

soapbox on
So much for the "great democracy" and bringing government closer to the
people. Just this sort of arrogant, overhand behaviour on the part of the
governments is grounds enough to vote no/non/nein.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro the EU - *in principle* - but it's the way they
go about implementing it, with all their lies of democracy and the people's
wishes. It's becoming more of a gravy train and power trip for second-rate
politicians than ever before.
soapbox off

I can't argue with that. Both my wife and I would have voted NO if we
had had a vote.

If they stopped the hand outs how many member states would the EU
retain?

Germany, France and Austria probably. (Austria always does what Germany
does, a few years later)

--
Tim C.