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Bilingual in Europe versus USA



 
 
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  #111  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:31 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Giovanni Drogo
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, spamfree wrote:

A better description would be Québecois and North American,
as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language.


But do all US Americans speak the same English ?

When I was a student with no great in situ experience of English I used
to follow better seminars held in english by non-native english speakers
than those by some Americans (I remember a gamma-ray astronomer from
Alabama which was virtually unintellegible). Also at my first summer
school I spent a good deal of a talk of Ethan Schreier in trying to
understand what meant a word which to me sounded "madher" (it was just
"matter").

Since when I spent 2 years in the UK, plus 2 more in Germany working in
an english speaking environment, I now understand better native speakers
(I remember with pleasure the language in "Passage to India" seen at
Frankfurt airport, and "The last Emperor" seen in Baltimore) -
including Americans from the west and east coast - than SOME
highly accented foreigners. But still I can't understand those from
southern US. I remember a movie on a plane which I could not understand
at all, I switched to the german channel !


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  #112  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:32 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Posts: 2,816
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA



Ian F. wrote:
"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message


Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!



And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as
in "A couple Eurostar questions".


I don't think either of your examples is considered
grammatically correct, even in America! (Perhaps more of
our semi-literate than yours have access to computers?)

Ian



  #113  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:33 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Giovanni Drogo
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, B Vaughan wrote:

Also learning to pronounce them is not terribly difficult. English has
tones as well, used to distinguish between a statement and a question,


But we (I believe in all european languages at least) apply tones to
sentences, not to single words or syllables. I have always been quite
afraid of tonal languages.


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  #114  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:54 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote:

"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!


And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as
in "A couple Eurostar questions".


Actually, "gotten" was retained in American from the British of a
couple centuries ago, while the Brits went on to change to the
use of the appalling "got" in its place. American English retains
quite a few old Britticisms now deplored by Brits who ought to
know better.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #115  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:57 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:17:49 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote:

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!


And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions,
as in "A couple Eurostar questions".


But the ever-present use of bizarre British slang is acceptable, right?

You are confusing two issues, language and ignorance. The OP is
correct, American English is not that different from UK English.
However, our educational system is a farce and most students
graduate with a functionally illiterate level of English. Being "cool"
has become the top priority in our society, and speaking proper
English is not included in the cool factor.


Really makes one wonder where Gates, Jobs, Wozniak, Moore, et al,
go their educations.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #116  
Old August 25th, 2006, 06:00 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Posts: 4,483
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:05:54 -0400, "James Silverton"
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not wrote:

Hello, Ian!
You wrote on Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:51:00 +0100:

?? "Gotten" was the original form in English, which has
?? persisted longer in the US than in the UK, although it's
?? also slowly vanishing in the US. Look at the OED if you
?? don't believe me.

IF I do believe you - it's just that to use it is
IF quintessentially American, but British kids are copying it
IF now. Just as bad is "Can I get" instead of "Can I have".

IF I had never heard the word "gotten" here in the UK in my
IF (56 year) life until a year or so ago.

?? Dropping prepositions is not standard English in the US.

IF Eh? I'm a journalist and I even get stories from major news
IF agencies which say "The company announced Tuesday that a
IF new director had been appointed..." or similar.

?? I'm sure there are plenty of people in the UK who also
?? speak nonstandard English.

IF Thousands upon thousands, I'm sure. That's not to say it is
IF to be encouraged.

Just to pour a little gas on the fire! What is "Standard
English": the language of the majority of speakers or that of a
self appointed elite who happen to live in the place where the
language started? :-) :-)


A standard any language is usually the dialect of the capital
region and those who made it the capital. So standard English is
largely London English, standard French is Parisian French,
standard German is Berlin Geman, etc. It's sort of a corrolary to
"A language is a dialect with an army"; "a standard language is
the dialect of those with the power".

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #117  
Old August 25th, 2006, 06:01 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:08:12 -0600, "spamfree"
wrote:

In Canada, if a job posting calls for applicants to be bilingual,
it means French and English.

You mean Quebecoise and English.


You mean Québecois and American.


A better description would be Québecois and North American,
as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language.
And if we are going that far, then we need to acknowledge that
Australians speak yet another dialect, so there are at least three
major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ.


You left out Indian.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #118  
Old August 25th, 2006, 06:04 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Posts: 4,483
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:41:02 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

You do realise that many people who learn English at school have
similar problems in North America?


Both problems are exaggerated. Anyone fluent in English can
understand both American and British speakers.


You mean "Anyone fluent in standard English can understand
standard American and standard British". I daresay that a West
Virgianian would have a very hard time understanding Glaswegian.

Anyone fluent in
French can understand both Québecois and French speakers.


Again, I would hazard a guess that someone fluent in some of the
regional dialects of of parts of France would have a hard time
understanding some of the regional dialects of Quebec.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #119  
Old August 25th, 2006, 06:06 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:39:01 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

You didn't study linguistics.


I've already said otherwise.


Anybody can say they studied linguistics.

On the Internet nobody knows you're a dog.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #120  
Old August 25th, 2006, 06:07 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:07:36 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote:

Iceman wrote:


Mine too, but they no longer offer that many.
It's a shame that they don't start teaching languages in elementary school.
Waiting until high school makes it too difficult to become fluent in a second
language.


And they don't teach practical languages other than Spanish.

Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian Portuguese, and maybe Arabic or Russian
are more valuable than French or German. And even many universities
don't offer all of those languages.


French is useful in Canada, since it is officially a bilingual country, and being
able to speak both official languages opens more career opportunities.


I suspect your typical Albertan doesn't gibe a hoot about the
lnaguage of Quebec, and probbly wouldn't care if Quebec floated
off into the Atlantic. Actually, I suspect you know that, too.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 




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