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Bilingual in Europe versus USA



 
 
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  #81  
Old August 24th, 2006, 10:56 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Iceman
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 24 Aug 2006 11:21:12 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian Portuguese, and maybe Arabic or Russian
are more valuable than French or German. And even many universities
don't offer all of those languages.


Chinese is next to useless, coz it's extremely difficult to master,
and even by the Chinese is seen as an inferior language. Chances are
you will never need it in the business or social world.


You have to be totally fluent in Chinese before it is any commercial
use - but people who are fluent and who have law, business, IT, etc.
skills are in huge demand.

Japanese comes in a number of flavours, but is only used in Japan. Even there, you
don't really need it to do business.


That used to be true, but the job market over there has gotten much
tougher, and now Westerners basically need Japanese to do anything in
Tokyo other than teach English or strip.

And Portuguese is only of value in Portugal and Brazil.


But Brazil is a huge market, and there are far fewer
Portuguese-speakers in the US than Spanish-speakers. And it isn't the
huge pain in the ass to learn that the Asian languages or Arabic are.

Russian may be useful, but you would have to
be commited to wanted to deal with the Russians. I don't know anyone
who has learnt Arabic, but again, it's not a part of the world you are
likely to want to go to. In the UAE it's pretty much all English!


Yes, but most long-term jobs in the UAE would expect Arabic. I don't
know if they generally require 100% fluency, but they probably require
at least strong conversational Arabic.

In summation, there really isn't an obvious second language to learn
in the world, unless you want to move to a specific place.


Well, in my field, law, and in the closely related field, finance,
there is a lot of demand for people who speak those languages to be
based out of New York or London, and only make occasional trips to
China, Brazil, Russia, etc. Even a lot of Western professionals who
are "in region" are based out of cities like Dubai or Hong Kong rather
than Cairo or Guangzhou.

It's clearly not for everyone, and you have to be willing to put in the
work to become totally fluent in a difficult language and to make
repeated trips to developing countries. But for someone who does have
an interest in those countries or cultures, fluency in one of those
languages is far more of a commercial advantage than fluent French or
German would be.

  #82  
Old August 24th, 2006, 11:40 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Posts: 2,816
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA



Mxsmanic wrote:

Dave Frightens Me writes:


You seem to enjoy writing things that you can't support.



You're confusing ability with volition.


As you claim you want to educate people on usenet, how does
not supporting something help?



People learn faster and better when they teach themselves.



Never mind all the inaccuracies that creep into their minds
as "fact" that way?


  #83  
Old August 24th, 2006, 11:41 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA



Mxsmanic wrote:

Sarah Banick writes:


Wow, what terrible school system did you go through?



An American one.


My public high school offered Spanish, French, German, and Latin.



Students don't make the connection between academic study of languages
and real cultures that give rise to them.


They do if the languages are properly taught!


  #84  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:03 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

Never mind all the inaccuracies that creep into their minds
as "fact" that way?


That depends on the sources they use. And many teachers teach
incorrect things as well.

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  #85  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:04 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

They do if the languages are properly taught!


The US is not the place to look for languages properly taught.

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  #86  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:07 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

Iceman writes:

It's clearly not for everyone, and you have to be willing to put in the
work to become totally fluent in a difficult language and to make
repeated trips to developing countries. But for someone who does have
an interest in those countries or cultures, fluency in one of those
languages is far more of a commercial advantage than fluent French or
German would be.


In general, to work in any country in any kind of decent job, you must
be fluent in the national language of that country. This is true even
in the United States.

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  #87  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:09 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

Dave Smith writes:

They pick up languages a lot faster than older children do.


Not really, although they can create that impression because they
concentrate more on speech than writing and are more willing to
imitate.

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  #88  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:38 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
[email protected]
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Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA


EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:

Sarah Banick writes:


Wow, what terrible school system did you go through?



An American one.


My public high school offered Spanish, French, German, and Latin.



Students don't make the connection between academic study of languages
and real cultures that give rise to them.


They do if the languages are properly taught!


Maybe Mixi is thinking of his own classes when he describes bad
teaching?

B;

  #89  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:39 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

You didn't study linguistics.


I've already said otherwise.

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  #90  
Old August 25th, 2006, 05:41 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Bilingual in Europe versus USA

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

You do realise that many people who learn English at school have
similar problems in North America?


Both problems are exaggerated. Anyone fluent in English can
understand both American and British speakers. Anyone fluent in
French can understand both Québecois and French speakers.

When students tell me that British or American English is harder or
easier, I tell them that they need to practice more.

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