abolishing tipping?

"Shashay Doofray" wrote in message
...
"tina lekas miller" wrote in message
om...
hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

Nobody tips the lawyer, the graphic designer, the teacher, the
librarian, the grocery store check out clerk, the admin assistant, the
traffic cop, the Walgreens checkout clerk or a million other jobs. Why
this selective situation where we subsidize the paycheck of certain
job categories.

Yes prices will rise. But we are paying it anyway.

please let me know what you think.

thanks
tina

I think it woiuld be a great idea if lawyers, etc., only got $3.00 per
hour
and relied on the quality of their service and the TIPS that they received
for income.

It's called contingency. For some lawyers they don't get paid if they don't
win.

The world would be a infinitely more fair place! The fact is
that certain occupations (food service the most common) rely on the
quality
of their service to ensure a good income. Subsequently, WE BEBEFIT. Good
service, good tips. Bad service - no tips, change of career. It weeds
out
the poor service and ensures (well in a perfect world), that good service
prevails.

It would be WONDERFUL if the income of everyone would directly reflect the
quality of service they provide. Maybe the quality of service in general
would improve.

SD

In article ,
(tina lekas miller) wrote:

hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

This is a lost cause. Tipping for restaurant service will sooner fall by
the wayside in the United States than we'll go to the Metric system.
There are more important things to worry about. Those who do not want to
work for tips are free to get a job where tipping is not the norm. Those
who do not want to tip are free not to use those services where tipping
is the norm in the United States. That way, everyone is happy.

Juliana L Holm wrote in message ...
tina lekas miller wrote:
hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

No matter what I think (and I'd prefer that they add service to the prices
and let me round up, like they do in Germany, to acknowledge good service)
it is not going to happen.

It can happen. We can at least try. I think we could use the
initiative process. We need less than 400,000 signatures to get it on
the ballot in California.

OSPAM (JamesStep) wrote in message ...
what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay...15% and forbid tipping

I don't think the government would ever pass a law *forbidding*
tipping of restaurant workers, but they could could amend the
law to require restaurants to pay at least minimum wage.

If that happened, most restaurant patrons would probably
voluntarily chose not to tip as much, or at all.

Don't think that's likely to happen, though, as there would
be tremendous resistance from many businesses.

And my guess is that many restaurant employees would not
be in favor of such a law either, as they might end up making
less under that plan, not more.

James



Well that may be James. But the point is not to protect the status quo
but to have this group of wage earners be like other groups of wage
earners.
Paid by their employer not directly by the customers. I support your
idea of their being at least the minimum wage. The restaurant can pay
what they want and need to in market conditions but at least the
minimum.

The tip has turned into a huge subsidy of the individuals pay, not a
little something extra for excellent service. It has also turned into
a veiled threat like if you don't tip an amount the tippee thinks is
good their will be no service next time. I just think it should be
handled like other wage earning positions.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove "NOSPAM" from my address when sending me e-mail.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:02:34 -0400, Me wrote:

In article ,
(tina lekas miller) wrote:

hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

This is a lost cause. Tipping for restaurant service will sooner fall by
the wayside in the United States than we'll go to the Metric system.
There are more important things to worry about. Those who do not want to
work for tips are free to get a job where tipping is not the norm. Those
who do not want to tip are free not to use those services where tipping
is the norm in the United States.

Or to simply not tip.

That way, everyone is happy.

Except the waiter.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote in message . ..
On 21 Oct 2003 13:28:11 GMT, Juliana L Holm
wrote:

tina lekas miller wrote:
hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

No matter what I think (and I'd prefer that they add service to the prices
and let me round up, like they do in Germany, to acknowledge good service)
it is not going to happen.

I generally prefer the European practice myself, but the
probability of getting the American restaurants and waiters to
change is between slim and none so it's mostly ****ing upwind.


I don't think the restaurants and the waiters would ever volunteer for
it.
It is not in their interest. Restaurants would feel that they were
paying more and waiters might indeed be making less depending on the
situation. Those who are accustomed to an income that is
significantlly higher would migrate to other positions. I'm not sure
how this works in Europe but every waiter I saw was an adult male who
seemed like this was his profession so I am assuming they make a
decent amount of money with the service charge, no tipping necessary
model.



It would need to be basically a law. Restaurants would pay at least
the minimum wage and in lieu of tips there would be either a service
charge included in the meal (no more than 15%) or the prices would
individually increase.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In article , tina lekas
miller writes
The tip has turned into a huge subsidy of the individuals pay, not a
little something extra for excellent service. It has also turned into
a veiled threat like if you don't tip an amount the tippee thinks is
good their will be no service next time. I just think it should be
handled like other wage earning positions
#
It is so good to read such sensible posts.
--
Marie Lewis

In article , tina lekas
miller writes
I don't think the restaurants and the waiters would ever volunteer for
it.
It is not in their interest.

Exactly.
Restaurants would feel that they were
paying more and waiters might indeed be making less depending on the
situation.

"Might" is the operative word, here.
Those who are accustomed to an income that is
significantlly higher would migrate to other positions.

So?
I'm not sure
how this works in Europe but every waiter I saw was an adult male who
seemed like this was his profession so I am assuming they make a
decent amount of money with the service charge, no tipping necessary
model.

And, believe it or not, it works.

--
Marie Lewis

In article , Me
writes
Tipping for restaurant service will sooner fall by
the wayside in the United States than we'll go to the Metric system.
There are more important things to worry about.

Of course there are. However, that does not mean the situation cannot
change.
Those who do not want to
work for tips are free to get a job where tipping is not the norm. Those
who do not want to tip are free not to use those services where tipping
is the norm in the United States.

What does that mean? That they are never to eat out?
That way, everyone is happy.

I doubt that very much.

--
Marie Lewis

Lynn Guinni wrote:
That's about a nine percent increase for a meal but, if you read the
other post, it would allow for a wage increase from $2 to $8. Who
among us would protest? Who among us couldn't afford it? Who among us
would even notice?

Something doesn't add up.

That's vague to excess. What is the "something that doesn't add up"?

For one thing, you're assuming the waiter gets it all.

No, I err'd. I shouldn't have mentioned tips at all as they're not
relevant to what I was saying. Sorry for the confusion. My fault.

I think most places share the tips with other workers, all of whom would
get an increase. In any case, you can't have the employer not earning
less, the waiter earning more, yet the diner pays only an 8% premium
instead of 15%.

In the example I gave, the employer would not have diminished
earnings. Most restaurateurs make a living, little more, and cannot
afford to have a lesser margin. The example I gave showed how the
employer would break even with the 300% wage increase. The employer's
other expenses, in my example, would not change. The reason for an
increase of $1.20 per diner rather than $1 is for the employer's
increased payroll expenses such as greater Social Security payments,
etc.
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