We Know The Future II

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"Nicholas Byram" wrote in message
news:jz8xb.312074$HS4.2763585@attbi_s01...

Cars could be used less if people found it desirable to live in denser
cities, where automobile mobility is decreased. However, given that many
inner cities have undesirable environments to live and do business in,
this
isn't happening. Your city of Washington DC -- predominantly a
crime-infested ghetto -- is a case in point. The population of DC is
actually lower than it was in the 1950's. The same goes for New York City,
San Francisco, and other dense cities.


Actually, the last Census shows most big cities increasing in population and
density. This is certainly the case in Portland where the Pearl District
(basically downtown) has increased population by a factor of 50.

"Jym Dyer" wrote in message
...

With more cars than people in the U.S., it's no wonder
we're looking for mobility. Too bad all these cars are in
the way.

And people are working on technology that will give that mobility for cars.
Test projects will be funded in four cities once we get past the present
continuing resolutions on the transportation budget in Congress. After
those tests, the Congressional plan is then to spread the technology into
general use in most cities.

Too bad everywhere we want to get mobile to is
three times as far away, because of everything in between
that was built for cars instead of people.

People refuse to use transit because it is not mobile. It takes 2 to 4
times longer to get there than with cars. Building for cars is building for
people since people rejected transit 70 to 80 years ago, at least for rail.
The same problems of lack of mobility that killed off transit have not gone
away. Cars have improved and we will soon go through major improvements in
mobility. If you can't solve those 80 year old transit problems, then you
have no solution.

No one has a solution, technical or otherwise for making transit more mobile
than cars, especially cars where a traffic jam will be 80MPH when developing
technology is implemented for wide spread use.

If you are the only person in the world that sees a solution for transit
that will make it faster than cars (the only criterion the vast majority of
people will accept), then tell us.

Since you seem to be just be a person that lives in the past with no ideas
that society cares about, I doubt you can do anything creative. You can
probably only just wallow in the past like some worthless old fart that
people ignore.

"Ted Herzl" wrote in message
m...


Actually, though San Fransisco is not on the road to be "car free,"
they have been tearing out a few freeways lately.

Really? Closing them down completely?
Something which is unheard of in the UK, we build new roads to replace old
ones but the old ones always stay open.

And there was a
news item last year about the opening of a new freeway in the LA area
that was described as being "the last one to be built." All the good
locations are already built out, building them is fiendishly
expensive, and even the highway engineers I know admit that it's
impossible to build your way out of traffic jams.

Again, same here. There's just no more room to build extensive new roads,
even upgrading existing ones is nearly impossible due to all the buildings
beside them.

These cities he mentions might not be "car free," but I would suspect
that in the coming years it will become easier to live in an American
city without havingto own a car. Which is a good thing, it's like
getting a $5,000 a year pay raise (Estimates are that operating costs
of a car are $7,000 a year, but you might need to spend $2,000 a year
on transit passes and occasional car rentals to obtain equivalent
mobility.)

Which is indeed a good thing. I live in Newcastle, England, and I don't own
a car. But I'm fortunate to live in the city, there are so many places where
no car would be impossible.

Ted Herzl wrote:

It's entirely possible that people will give up the use of cars. At
the very least, once the Chinese get rich enough to afford the same
kind of lifestyle that the folks in the US and Eurpe have, the price
of gasoline everywhere is going to get _very_ expensive.

So they will probably run their cars on something else.
Don't forget we use oil not becasue we must, but because we can...

Krist

And people are working on technology that will give that
mobility for cars.

=v= The problem is that the distance from A to B has become the
distance from A, across A's parking lot, through streets that
have been widened and extended for cars, across B's parking lot,
to B. That can't be fixed without tesseracts.

People refuse to use transit because it is not mobile.
It takes 2 to 4 times longer to get there than with cars.

=v= In some casee, yes, but certainly not in all.

=v= And even in those cases, the time advantage is illusory.
On average, Americans work 1 day out of 5 to support their
cars. Many of these costs are subtle or completely hidden,
out of sight, out of mind. Yet they're there.

Building for cars is building for people since people
rejected transit 70 to 80 years ago, at least for rail.

=v= Okay, here's the part where Jack relies on a version of
history in which National City Lines didn't deliberately wreck
the country's transit system. People just "rejected" it.
Yeah, right.
_Jym_

Look, man. I was telling the truth when I posted here. And Jym Dyer's,
Nicholas Byram's, Baxter's, and Miguel Cruz's posts back me up.


"Paul @dowco.com" "momiremove wrote in message
...


Dustin Lambert wrote:

Count on the automobile disappearing in the US, Europe, and elsewhere
in the world as American, European, Asian and other cities go car-free
and freeways and roads in the US and Europe get ripped up and replaced
with mass transit systems and cities go from large to small, giving
way to small cities and towns. Auto use will disappear and walking,
biking, and transit will be the only ways to get around.

Single-family areas and businesses not in the downtown cores will
disappear and the land revert to its natural state or be turned into
farmland. This is already happening in Washington State, Oregon, and
Northern California particularly Berkeley. Richard Register's eco-city
project was unanimously approved by the Berkeley City Council and the
way has been cleared for his company, Eco-City Builders, to start
changing the city into an ecocity. He's working on other projects in
China and New Zealand.

San Francisco will be car-free as its streets are transformed
into pedestrian malls. San Jose will do the same. Los Angeles and
Santa Monics are already going car-free.

European cities are already going car-free including London,
Paris, Rome, Edinburgh, Milan, Dublin, Berlin, Oslo, Helsinki (its
downtown area is already car-free), Dresden, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the
Hague, Strasbourg, all cities in Switzerland, Hamburg, Athens, Madrid,
Istanbul, Prague, Stockholm, Brussels, Vienna, and Monte Carlo,
Monaco.

In Canada, Vancouver, British Columbia, Calgary, Alberta,
Montreal and Toronto are going car-free.

In the United States, Cleveland, Ohio, Columbus, Ohio, New York
City, Boston, Miami, Florida, Tampa, Florida, Portland, Oregon,
Seattle, and Anchorage, Alaska are going car-free. In the Middle East,
Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in Israel, cities in Morocco and Algeria,
Cairo, Egypt, cities in Saudi Arabia, Tehran, Iran, and other Middle
Eastern cities are going car-free.

Bangkok, Thailand is now car-free. And freeways in the US and
Europe are being torn up. I-95 is being torn up from Florida to Maine
and all other freeways from coast to coast are being torn up.

Air travel is also disappearing. Seven European nations have
plans to close airports. This is all true.

Sources:

www.carfree.com
www.carbusters.org
European national and city web sites
CNN
Yahoo! News
www.ci.berkeley.ca.us

Freeways and paved roads are being torn up. America and the world
are changing!

Isn't it amazing that the planet Xintura has countries and cities with the
same names as planet earth?

What do you use for transportation to commute between the two? Do you
need a prescription for it? And do you inhale it, swallow it or inject it?

Paul

On 26 Nov 2003 14:25:51 -0600, Jordan Bettis wrote:

(Martin Edwards) writes:

Really?! Cars have been around 6000 years?!



Leroy, leave it. Certain trolls have stayed under their bridges for
weeks now, don't make a row.

George has been posting like crazy to a.p.u. Maybe his provider droped
misc.

Presumably RJ is busy in his forge under the mountain at this time of
year.

******Martin Edwards.******

Come on! Nobody's going to ride that lousy freeway
when they can take the Red Car for a nickel.

Eddy Valiant.

www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955/

Paul staggered to the nearest keyboard and
wrote:


Isn't it amazing that the planet Xintura has countries and cities with the
same names as planet earth?

What do you use for transportation to commute between the two? Do you
need a prescription for it? And do you inhale it, swallow it or inject it?

Fly Jefferson Airplane, gets you there on time.



--
hambu n hambu hodo

Jym Dyer wrote:

Building for cars is building for people since people
rejected transit 70 to 80 years ago, at least for rail.

=v= Okay, here's the part where Jack relies on a version of
history in which National City Lines didn't deliberately wreck
the country's transit system. People just "rejected" it.
Yeah, right.

Yeah, right. Remember in the late 1940s and early 1950s, there
weren't that many cars on the road, but plenty in the showrooms.
It was possible to beleive, as most Americans did, that there
could never be a traffic jam on a freeway -- especially since
most Americans had no real experience of freeways. By the time
National City Lines (or its Los Angeles arm, Los Angeles Transit
Lines) began to tear out that city's streetcar system, the voters
had already rejected money to refurbish the decaying interurban
lines. Why should they keep the old trolleys when science had
developed roads that would never slow a car down?

By the time the promise of the freeways had turned hollow, and
the skies above LA had turned yellow, it was too late in the
minds of voters. When I was in Los Angeles in 1964, citizens
were already beginning to lament the Red Car system they had
lost -- while driving right across the still-existing tracks.
In fact, the trolley lines stayed there rusting in the ground
until the 1990s. The Blue Line and the San Bernardino Metrolink
line are both mostly on Red Car ROWs, and the proposed Santa
Monica line is proposed to use a Red Car line that still sits
in the middle of a city street, forty years after the Red Car
lines "disappeared."

Silas Warner

in article , Steve Austin at
wrote on 11/27/03 10:04 AM:

Look, man. I was telling the truth when I posted here. And Jym Dyer's,
Nicholas Byram's, Baxter's, and Miguel Cruz's posts back me up.

snip

Uh, Steve, old sport, haven't you been making these "within
five years" predictions for more than five years now? And,
if all of these roads are being torn up, then you should be
able to give us aerial evidence via Mapquest and tinyurl.com,
right?