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US going metric?



 
 
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  #61  
Old January 6th, 2004, 09:49 AM
Mark Hewitt
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Default US going metric?


"sammacel" wrote in message
om...
"Don Howe" wrote in message

news:HqmKb.969728$9l5.470462@pd7tw2no...

Teaching kids won't do it. You need laws to force manufacturers to
change their products to metric or really to produce separate product
lines to support all the old stuff for years. Tremendous expense
(think hundreds of billions) for no great benefit and certainly a
significant amount of chaos and shortages. Not politically feasible
and why mess with a system that works since all will slowly go metric
as needed?


The UK has proved that. We've been teaching kids metric since the 70's. It
hasn't really worked. While we are largely metricated now, there are still
grocers etc selling goods by the pound. It isn't kids who are doing the
buying, in my area it's mostly older people who use those shops (I guess
younger folks go to the out of town supermarkets). They've been used to
using imperial all their lives so don't want to change, so the shop doesn't
change. By the time the kids who learn metric grow old enough to be
customers of these shops, they've been forced into using imerial for so long
that they don't want to change either!

Personally I think a change to a total metric system should be forced
through, it will cause more confusion, initially, but once everyone gets
used to it, nobody will care.


  #62  
Old January 6th, 2004, 01:46 PM
me
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Default US going metric?

DMW wrote in message ...
me wrote:

[snip]
The degree F however is a smaller increment than celcius and
in most of the applications I need the scales for, I prefer that
finer division.


22.1°C, 22.2°C, 22.3°C... works for me.


My thermostat works in either F or C. However, regardless of which
one I choose, it only can be set to the nearsest whole integer.
Considering that it also only "holds" to within 2 degrees, the F
scale is a whole lot preferable.
  #63  
Old January 6th, 2004, 01:54 PM
me
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Default US going metric?

Hatunen wrote in message . ..
On 5 Jan 2004 07:28:55 -0800, (me)
wrote:

That is generally my complaint about many metric units, they're
just a darn inconvienent size. The centimeter is too small, but
the meter is too large. Feet is nice for alot of what I use
those dimensions for.


What do you have against the decimeter?


Besides almost universal lack of use? It's a tad small still.
Feet is a good height for bridge clearances and the like. Yards/meters
are too big, inches way too small. I kinda find folks will tend to
pick and use 3 length dimensions. Feet, yards and miles or inches
feet and miles. They rarely use 4. Also tend to stick to certian
speed styles. fps, ips or mph but rarely mps. I think it's probably
true in metric as well. mm, cm, or meters or cm, m, and km.
The decimeter just never gets used, probably because it has a bad
overall size.


And another point not related to your post. I usually see Americans calling
the system of measurment English, as opposed to Metric. Well we mostly don't
use that system so much so it's not 'English' any more, the correct term is
Imperial.


Actually, since there is no singular system, there really is no singular
correct name. I see various references to "US Standard", which is kind of
a misnomer since there isn't much of one. I'm sure the commerce department
has rules on all these things though. I'm pretty sure though that no
one is using the imperial system. So they probably aren't referring to
what "you" used.


I avoid using Imperial as a name for the US system because of the
differences in liquid measure.


Yup. Oz, gallons, and pints are some of the most variable of names.
  #64  
Old January 6th, 2004, 02:05 PM
me
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Default US going metric?

"alohacyberian" wrote in message ...
"me" wrote in message
m...
"Mark Hewitt" wrote in

message ...
[snip][
Each to their own, I guess it's what you are used to. But I find the
fahrenheit scale makes no sense at all! Zero for freezing, one hundred

for
boiling point. Makes much more sense than 32 for the freezing point!



That is generally my complaint about many metric units, they're
just a darn inconvienent size. The centimeter is too small, but
the meter is too large. Feet is nice for alot of what I use
those dimensions for.


I sometimes think it's too bad that feet weren't measured as one third of
meters, giving that convenient size. For smaller things centimeters and
millimeters have it all over inches. KM



Feet were, they're 1/3 of a yard. The yard and the meter are the
"same" unit, about one stride (or the distance from your nose to your
fingers). I'd bet a few paychecks that the reason the meter was chosen
as 1/40000th of the supposed distance around a theoretical part of the
globe was that it worked out to about that distance. millimeters do
"have it all" over inches, but centimeters are too small once you have
the millimeter. Carpentry still works in the whole 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th system
but most of the rest of us work in decimal fractions of the inch, the
thousandth being my most common usage (which we call a "mil" just
to confuse things). "Organic" units (as I heard them called once)
rarely grow in orders of magnitude. They have all sorts of rations
from 3 to 12 to 5280. Orders of magnitude just don't seem to work
out to convenient sizes.
  #65  
Old January 6th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Hatunen
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Default US going metric?

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:23:10 GMT, "alohacyberian"
wrote:

"Hatunen" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:01:55 GMT, "alohacyberian"
wrote:
Yes, and as far as distances and speeds, most automobile computers now

allow
the dirvers to view the readings in metric and speedometers have the

speeds
in both miles per hour and kilometers per hour. I'm still waiting for

someone
to say it's long overdue to revamp the 360 degrees of circles into metric!

KM

Already done. A right angle is divided into 100 grads. See
http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/CC/...s/TIPS0999.HTM

My calculator does grads.

I was talking about common everyday use, not scientific applications.



That's not what you said. You said: "I'm still waiting for
someone to say it's long overdue to revamp the 360 degrees of
circles into metric!" If you didn't mean it, you should have said
what you meant.

Well, someone not only said it, it's been done.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with grads for everyday use.
Except that few people use them, a problem that will arise for
any other "metric" system devised (I gather you really meant
"decimal" when you said "metric").

I recall buying a calculator (electronic slide rule) in 1975 that had grads,
but, that's not what most people use and it's still hours, minutes and
seconds, which is again not metric. KM


Grads aren't hours, minutes and seconds.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #66  
Old January 6th, 2004, 04:10 PM
Hatunen
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Default US going metric?

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 08:23:12 GMT, "alohacyberian"
wrote:

"DMW" wrote in message
...
alohacyberian wrote:
"DMW" wrote in message
...
22.1°C, 22.2°C, 22.3°C... works for me.
DMW

But, it's doubtful that meteoroligists or weather reporters will begin to
report beyond round numbers. KM


I have yet to make any changes in plans because the weather reporter told
me the temperature was going to be 1 degree off from what I was expecting.
Other than 1°C to 0°C (hard to clean out the eavestroughs when they're
frozen solid, and time to cover up any plants overnight if I want to extend
their summer/autumn lives).


Once again, you live in a climate with a wide range of yearly temperatures,
so I wasn't talking about your climate, I was talking about mine with a range
of 25 degrees Fahrenheit. KM


So it's your considered opinion that the rest of the world should
adjust its meteorogical systems to accomondate the situation in
Hawai'i?

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #67  
Old January 6th, 2004, 04:59 PM
Abe Kouris
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Default US going metric?

"jj" wrote in message ...
I'm curious, has there ever been an attempt at going metric in the US? e.g.
using Celsius? How do people feel about it?

jj


Actually, The US _has_ gone metric. All those "US Customary Units"
are actually bizzare derivatives of metric units, at least legally.
The US was one of the original signers of the Treaty of the Meter.

For the whole sordid/amusing story of why the US didn't adopt the
metric system, both initially, and during the abortive attempt in the
1970's, read "Measuring America" By Andro Linklater (Penguin/Plume,
New York, 2003) ISBN 0-452-28459-7,
Library of Congress cat # E161.3 .L46 2002

Actually, even the Frenchies and other Europeans resisted the metric
system after it was introduced, but their 19th century authoritarian
governments (Does "Napoleon ring a bell?) made it happen. And even
today, Europeans apparently have some non-official, but core
convenient, units in common use: the German "pfund" (500 grams), and
German and Scandanvian plumber supposedly measure pipe diameters in
"thumbs" or "inches."

My guess is that the Americans won't convert in common use until the
American Empire collapses and they won't be able to dictate to
suppliers like they do today. Until then, I don't see America going
metric in comman usage even though Americas, in reality, a metric
country.

Abe.
  #68  
Old January 6th, 2004, 06:10 PM
Steve
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Default US going metric?

Being an engineer and working for a manufactuirng company that sells
globally, the US cannot switch to metric fast enough to suit me. Being a
woodworker I would switch entirely to metric if I could get everything I
need in metric sizes. I remember learning the metric system in 3rd grade,
and hearing it was Real Important because we would be switching over in "a
few years"...well, why don't we? It's easier for everything.


"jj" wrote in message
...
I'm curious, has there ever been an attempt at going metric in the US?

e.g.
using Celsius? How do people feel about it?

jj




  #69  
Old January 6th, 2004, 07:11 PM
me
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Default US going metric?

(Abe Kouris) wrote in message . com...
"jj" wrote in message ...
I'm curious, has there ever been an attempt at going metric in the US? e.g.
using Celsius? How do people feel about it?

jj


[snip]
Actually, even the Frenchies and other Europeans resisted the metric
system after it was introduced, but their 19th century authoritarian
governments (Does "Napoleon ring a bell?) made it happen. And even
today, Europeans apparently have some non-official, but core
convenient, units in common use: the German "pfund" (500 grams), and
German and Scandanvian plumber supposedly measure pipe diameters in
"thumbs" or "inches."


Strange belief that units should serve people, instead of people
serving units. They use the units that serve them.

My guess is that the Americans won't convert in common use until the
American Empire collapses and they won't be able to dictate to
suppliers like they do today. Until then, I don't see America going
metric in comman usage even though Americas, in reality, a metric
country.



It is sort of an interesting lesson in economics. When the economic
incentive is there, folks will change. There will be economic incentives
for a long time in some industries NOT to change. Probably more
accurately, in some applications, there is little economic advantage
to metric units. My personal suspicion is that by the time
any wholesale conversion takes place, you'll see a fairly basterdized
metric system around the world. I'm already seeing "kilograms force"
I've heard of metric "bricks" that aren't multiples of 10 of any
metric unit. A guy I knew in snow removal measured in "trucks".
I asked him how many tons or cubic feet and he didn't know.
He knew how many trucks to the mile. Those kind of "organic" units
are common and don't convert well to arbitrary metric values.
Folks may throw the word "metric" in front of them but they
won't really be a derived unit.
  #70  
Old January 6th, 2004, 07:12 PM
Bob Myers
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Default US going metric?


"alohacyberian" wrote in message
...

Once again, you live in a climate with a wide range of yearly

temperatures,
so I wasn't talking about your climate, I was talking about mine with a

range
of 25 degrees Fahrenheit. KM


Which is a spread of just under 14 deg. C. So far, you've given
no reason to think that you care about changes smaller than 1 deg. C,
so what's the problem?

Bob M.


 




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