Anyone understand the TSA's "3 ounce" rule?

On May 3, 3:13*pm, Robert Neville wrote:
DevilsPGD wrote:
100mL is allowed, the TSA calls this "3 oz" but it's actually "3.4 oz"

IIRC, the original TSA rule was indeed 3.0 oz. When TSA decreed that incoming
international flights needed to comply with the same rule, the first response
from those airlines was "What's an ounce?" They compromised on 100 ml.

I see that now with one of the referenced links. However - I remember
being in the line, and the sign was pretty much the same as the image
in that webpage. It gets a little bit confusing since the sign was
never modified to note a metric equivalent. I do remember the
temporary rule back around August 2006, and I remember bringing 4 oz
bottles as carry-on. However - I didn't worry so much since my flight
on AA allowed me to bring two check-in bags at no extra cost. In fact
I loaded up a bunch of junk I got in a cardboard box.

I still don't quite understand why it was permanently set at 3 oz (or
even 100 ml) like there's some sort of scientific accuracy to the
number. 4 oz is such a common container size in the US that I can'
figure our why it didn't remain there at least for US domestic flights.

On May 4, 11:33*am, DevilsPGD wrote:
In message "singlemalt"
was claimed to have wrote:

Anyone know of any actual 3 oz bottles? *I bought a few Nalgene 2 oz
bottles, but they seem a bit small. *100 ml looks good enough, but I'm
not sure if they'll allow it. *I did see a box filled with discarded
containers that didn't make it past the TSA security. *I also gave
about a half-case of bottled water to some curbside baggage handlers;
they stashed it and seemed to appreciate it.

Go to your local pharmacy and ask them to sell you some 3 oz bottles.

If the bottles aren't labeled by the manufacturer you may bump into
problems. *I'm not sure how strictly this is enforced, but I was
questioned about how I know a shampoo bottle with a worn label was under
the limit, since it had a matching conditioner bottle with a readable
label it wasn't an issue.

Most of my Nalgene bottles are labelled at the bottom. I don't see
why they can't just eyeball the containers or maybe just weigh them?

Remember this isn't about security, it's theatre.

Certainly it is. I remember back when shoe inspections were random.
Now it's everyone.

If you want proof that the quantity of liquid isn't a factor bring two
fully loaded baggies, put one in a bin on top of your jacket and the
second in another bin with a handful of change and cell phone, no one
will notice that you have more liquid then allowed. *If you want proof
that the size of the bottle isn't a factor, bring some large empty
bottles and see if they are confiscated.

Nowadays they are usually plastic and so cheap that they will probably give
them to you. BTW, you cannot fill 3 oz bottles with liquor ( Scotch) and put
them in your allowable one quart zip lock bag. No booze can be carried onto
the plane, unless, perhaps, duty free.

I don't see anything specifically prohibiting liquor on the prohibited
list right now; seehttp://www.tsa.gov/311/index.shtmandhttp://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibite...

I heard of someone who tried bringing on some alcohol, was told he
couldn't bring it on board, and proceeded to down nearly an entire
bottle of vodka. He nearly died from alcohol poisoning.

I've been on some international flights, and they specifically note in
the duty free catalog that purchased alcohol can't be consumed on
board. Many of these duty free operations have the alcohol waiting at
the jetway.

However, flammable liquids are prohibited, so this might prohibit your
drink of choice. *On the other hand, how often do you see TSA
representatives attempting to identify liquids?

I can't figure it out either.

In message "singlemalt"
was claimed to have wrote:

Of course, part of the idea was to carry on some for me to drink on board
and the rest later on. I called AA and asked them about it and the person I
talked to said no booze on board. Anyway, that one person did.

You do realize that airline rules are not TSA rules, right?

In

wrote:

I still don't quite understand why it was permanently set at 3 oz (or
even 100 ml) like there's some sort of scientific accuracy to the
number.

They probably set it at 3 oz precisely to give the impression that
there's some sort of scientific accuracy to the number. An odd (and
inconvenient) number like that makes it seem that a lot of research and
thought went into its determination.

If they'd had their wits about them, they'd have used the 100ml figure
to make it seem even more authoritative, metric measures being quite
mysterious to many Americans.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

"DevilsPGD" wrote in message
...
In message "singlemalt"
was claimed to have wrote:

Of course, part of the idea was to carry on some for me to drink on board
and the rest later on. I called AA and asked them about it and the person
I
talked to said no booze on board. Anyway, that one person did.

You do realize that airline rules are not TSA rules, right?

Right, and that is why I specified that I was told that by a person I spoke
to at AA. May not be the same all over but I suspect so primarily so you
will have to buy their liquor.

In message

was claimed to have wrote:

On May 4, 11:33*am, DevilsPGD wrote:
In message "singlemalt"
was claimed to have wrote:

Anyone know of any actual 3 oz bottles? *I bought a few Nalgene 2 oz
bottles, but they seem a bit small. *100 ml looks good enough, but I'm
not sure if they'll allow it. *I did see a box filled with discarded
containers that didn't make it past the TSA security. *I also gave
about a half-case of bottled water to some curbside baggage handlers;
they stashed it and seemed to appreciate it.

Go to your local pharmacy and ask them to sell you some 3 oz bottles.

If the bottles aren't labeled by the manufacturer you may bump into
problems. *I'm not sure how strictly this is enforced, but I was
questioned about how I know a shampoo bottle with a worn label was under
the limit, since it had a matching conditioner bottle with a readable
label it wasn't an issue.

Most of my Nalgene bottles are labelled at the bottom. I don't see
why they can't just eyeball the containers or maybe just weigh them?

Eyeballing containers would require IQ power, and result in arguments
when the TSA representative's judgment call doesn't match yours.

Weighing them would take time and delay everyone else, and you'd still
get arguments since not all liquids have the same weight, plus you have
the container's weight.

Remember that this only applies to carry-on, if you really need
something that you can't get in an appropriately sized container and
don't want to risk confiscation, take a small amount with you, check
another small amount, move on.

Remember this isn't about security, it's theatre.

Certainly it is. I remember back when shoe inspections were random.
Now it's everyone.

Except that they don't manage to catch gel inserts, which are a banned
item.

Keep in mind that if you really wanted to take liquid with you, it's
trivial -- Label it as saline, declare it, you'll walk right through
with whatever you can claim is reasonable with a straight face.

No one checks prescriptions to see if they're real either, so dummy up a
prescription label from a non-chain pharmacy you just made up located
several states away if you're in the mood to bring liquid through.

Or if you're not the type to be that up-front, rig up a system to hold
multiple bags strapped inside baggy pants, don't get yourself searched,
and pick an airport/security gate not using millimeter wave scanning.

If liquids and gels were really a threat, each and every liquid would be
prohibited without exception, you would be detained and arrested for
attempting to smuggle any volume of liquid through just the same as
happens when you forget you're carrying a loaded and otherwise legal
firearm.

I heard of someone who tried bringing on some alcohol, was told he
couldn't bring it on board, and proceeded to down nearly an entire
bottle of vodka. He nearly died from alcohol poisoning.

You can't fix stupid. I'm also guessing that 3.4oz of vodka wouldn't
kill your average bear, so without further information on the story, I'm
going to guess he bought a larger bottle at duty-free, only to discover
he can't take it with him through a security gate at a stopover.

I've been on some international flights, and they specifically note in
the duty free catalog that purchased alcohol can't be consumed on
board. Many of these duty free operations have the alcohol waiting at
the jetway.

Indeed.

We aren't (or weren't, anyway) talking about consuming alcohol, just
taking it through TSA and onboard a plane. There are plenty of times
when you're allowed to carry alcohol but not consume it, this is one
such example.

However, flammable liquids are prohibited, so this might prohibit your
drink of choice. *On the other hand, how often do you see TSA
representatives attempting to identify liquids?

I can't figure it out either.

Again, and say it with me this time: "This isn't about security, it's
theatre." Theatre doesn't need to make sense. Play your part, say your
lines convincingly and there won't be any trouble.

On May 5, 8:07*pm, DevilsPGD wrote:
In message

was claimed to have wrote:
On May 4, 11:33*am, DevilsPGD wrote:
In message "singlemalt"
was claimed to have wrote:
Anyone know of any actual 3 oz bottles? *I bought a few Nalgene 2 oz
bottles, but they seem a bit small. *100 ml looks good enough, but I'm
not sure if they'll allow it. *I did see a box filled with discarded
containers that didn't make it past the TSA security. *I also gave
about a half-case of bottled water to some curbside baggage handlers;
they stashed it and seemed to appreciate it.

Go to your local pharmacy and ask them to sell you some 3 oz bottles.

If the bottles aren't labeled by the manufacturer you may bump into
problems. *I'm not sure how strictly this is enforced, but I was
questioned about how I know a shampoo bottle with a worn label was under
the limit, since it had a matching conditioner bottle with a readable
label it wasn't an issue.

Most of my Nalgene bottles are labelled at the bottom. *I don't see
why they can't just eyeball the containers or maybe just weigh them?

Eyeballing containers would require IQ power, and result in arguments
when the TSA representative's judgment call doesn't match yours.

Weighing them would take time and delay everyone else, and you'd still
get arguments since not all liquids have the same weight, plus you have
the container's weight.

As it is now they're rather inconsistent about 3 oz, 100 ml, etc.
I've heard some reports that 4 oz can get through if you're polite
about it but some TSA screeners bring down the hammer.

Remember that this only applies to carry-on, if you really need
something that you can't get in an appropriately sized container and
don't want to risk confiscation, take a small amount with you, check
another small amount, move on.

Yeah - but some airlines are charging 1st bag fees now. I'm thinking
if I need sunscreen I'm better off just bringing a 2 oz bottle with me
and buying it at a discount store when I get there.

That last place I went to I was warned by airline personnel about
luggage thieves. I do remember some airports (often international
terminals) where I was asked to show the baggage claim ticket.
However - I just went through four airports where anyone could have
walked up from the street and taken any bag without being questioned
unless the owner was there.

Remember this isn't about security, it's theatre.

Certainly it is. *I remember back when shoe inspections were random.
Now it's everyone.

Except that they don't manage to catch gel inserts, which are a banned
item.

Once I saw San Francisco Giants manager Felipe Alou take his shoes off
at the gate to have it placed in an explosives detection machine.
Kind of strange too since I thought he would have been on the team
charter during the middle of the season.

I heard of someone who tried bringing on some alcohol, was told he
couldn't bring it on board, and proceeded to down nearly an entire
bottle of vodka. *He nearly died from alcohol poisoning.

You can't fix stupid. *I'm also guessing that 3.4oz of vodka wouldn't
kill your average bear, so without further information on the story, I'm
going to guess he bought a larger bottle at duty-free, only to discover
he can't take it with him through a security gate at a stopover.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20...ny_vodka_quaff

Nuremberg Airport. One liter of vodka. Apparently he was switching
planes on his way home to Dresden from Egypt. I'm guessing he
probably got it duty free. Given a choice between tossing it or
paying to have his luggage checked in, he downed the entire bottle.
Reports are that he couldn't stand almost immediately.

I've been on some international flights, and they specifically note in
the duty free catalog that purchased alcohol can't be consumed on
board. *Many of these duty free operations have the alcohol waiting at
the jetway.

Indeed.

I'm guessing Mr poison yourself to near death might have had the booze
delivered exiting his flight from Egypt.

In
wrote:

As it is now they're rather inconsistent about 3 oz, 100 ml, etc.
I've heard some reports that 4 oz can get through if you're polite
about it but some TSA screeners bring down the hammer.

Maybe, but even so:

To ensure traveler's security, transportation security
officers (TSOs) may determine that an item not on the
prohibited items chart is prohibited. In addition, the TSO
may also determine that an item on the permitted chart is
dangerous and therefore may not be brought through the
security checkpoint.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Prohib...ly_3-16-07.pdf

So, good luck.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

In message

was claimed to have wrote:

As it is now they're rather inconsistent about 3 oz, 100 ml, etc.
I've heard some reports that 4 oz can get through if you're polite
about it but some TSA screeners bring down the hammer.

The rule is 3.4oz, 100mL. Exceptions might be made upward, but I've not
heard of a single complaint of anything being confiscated that was under
the limit.

The only inconsistency is that the name of the 3-1-1 wasn't changed to
3.4-1-1, and some of the signs are wrong, but if you stay within the out
of date posted signs (3oz) you're fine, or if you stay within the
printed TSA standard and international standard (3.4oz/100mL) you're
fine.

Yeah - but some airlines are charging 1st bag fees now. I'm thinking
if I need sunscreen I'm better off just bringing a 2 oz bottle with me
and buying it at a discount store when I get there.

Personally, I'd take 3.4oz if it would cover me for the trip, or if I
needed it between when I get off the plane and when I could purchase
more, otherwise I wouldn't take any at all.

That last place I went to I was warned by airline personnel about
luggage thieves. I do remember some airports (often international
terminals) where I was asked to show the baggage claim ticket.
However - I just went through four airports where anyone could have
walked up from the street and taken any bag without being questioned
unless the owner was there.
I'm guessing Mr poison yourself to near death might have had the booze
delivered exiting his flight from Egypt.

Why would you guess that? Something about hearing hooves and guessing
zebras comes to mind: The simplest explanation is probably the easiest.

Now it's possible that those countries have different rules, I've not
traveled in that part of the world, but normally duty-free purchases are
delivered as you board the flight.

On May 6, 4:15*pm, DevilsPGD wrote:
In message

was claimed to have wrote:
I'm guessing Mr poison yourself to near death might have had the booze
delivered exiting his flight from Egypt.

Why would you guess that? *Something about hearing hooves and guessing
zebras comes to mind: The simplest explanation is probably the easiest.

Now it's possible that those countries have different rules, I've not
traveled in that part of the world, but normally duty-free purchases are
delivered as you board the flight.

In the few times I traveled international I've seen a few things. A
few years back I could actually collect duty free items at the
terminal and take it on board. That's obviously different now that
you can't get large bottles past security. As you say, they're
probably delivered as people board.

I've done duty free ordering from a catalog on board a plane, and
those deliveries would either have to be on the plane or upon
landing. I've actually seen bags of stuff waiting at the jetway
(boarding or exiting), so that's my basis.