Are the skies more turbulent than they used to be.

I always thought the pilot could climb right to altitude as soon as the
plane left the
runway


"Matt" wrote in message
...

"Charles Newman" wrote in
message Fuel reasons dont make much sense. You actually burn less
fuel
at higher
altitudes than lower ones. I found in flight simulator that at altitudes
of
around
40,000 feet, you burn fuel at a much lower rate than at 30,000 feet.



May be because there are a lot more short haul flights than there were 20
or
30 years ago and they don't have time to get up to the higher altitudes.

Also figure ATC delays more common these days which can hold aircraft up
in
lower altitudes.

Matt

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:48:36 -0700, "Charles Newman"
wrote:


I always thought the pilot could climb right to altitude as soon as the
plane left the
runway


No, they are staged upward as they are passed from controller to
controller. (I'm an instant expert because I listen to Channel 9 on
UA...)

Usually, at least out of SF area, it's fairly straight forward. One
controller will say climb to, for example, 13,000 feet. In a few
minutes that controller will tell the pilot to contact the next
controller. This usually happens before the plane gets to 13,000. The
pilot checks in with the new controller and says "I'm at 11.6 and
climbing to 13." The controller says "climb to 21,000."

More congested eastern airspace often forces the pilots to stop their
climb at the intermediate altitudes.

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:10:27 GMT, "Arnie"
wrote:

3)Mountain Wave - more common during winter/spring months all over the
world
over Mountainous terrain (Sierra Nevada, Rockies, Andes, Alps)
The Mountain Wave, "Lee Wave" or "Standing Wave" is a "wave" of air that
is
located in a stationary position over the lee side of high mountains, and

Good info. Can you explain "mountain wave" a bit more? Is it up-down
drafts or vertically-oriented turbulence? How does it feel in a plane?


I had to fly from Denver to Aspen a couple weeks ago on a Dash 8 and that
was one of the most turbulent flights I'd ever been on. I fly a couple
times a week and that was first time I felt like I might throw up. Didn't
help that the first time we attempted the flight we had to return to Denver
because of high winds in Aspen, just to try again a couple hours later.
Then I got to spend only about 2 hours in Aspen before returning back to
Denver. Luckily it's a short flight.

Matt

My understanding is that on long flights they can't reach their highest
cruising altitude until some fuel is burned off because they are too heavy.

Matt


"Charles Newman" wrote in
message ...

I always thought the pilot could climb right to altitude as soon as
the
plane left the
runway


"Matt" wrote in message
...

"Charles Newman" wrote in
message Fuel reasons dont make much sense. You actually burn less
fuel
at higher
altitudes than lower ones. I found in flight simulator that at
altitudes
of
around
40,000 feet, you burn fuel at a much lower rate than at 30,000 feet.



May be because there are a lot more short haul flights than there were
20
or
30 years ago and they don't have time to get up to the higher altitudes.

Also figure ATC delays more common these days which can hold aircraft up
in
lower altitudes.

Matt

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
No, they are staged upward as they are passed from controller to
controller. (I'm an instant expert because I listen to Channel 9 on
UA...)

Usually, at least out of SF area, it's fairly straight forward. One
controller will say climb to, for example, 13,000 feet. In a few
minutes that controller will tell the pilot to contact the next
controller. This usually happens before the plane gets to 13,000. The
pilot checks in with the new controller and says "I'm at 11.6 and
climbing to 13." The controller says "climb to 21,000."

More congested eastern airspace often forces the pilots to stop their
climb at the intermediate altitudes.

You are correct about everything, Dick.
Here's an additional clarification :
Once we climb through 18000ft on the way to our next assigned altitude, we
do not refer to "Altitudes" animore, but rather, to "Fligh Levels".
Flight levels then become FL 210 (for the equivalent to 21000ft), FL 290
(for 29000ft), FL 350 (for 35000ft) and so on.
The reason for this change is that, in the USA, below 18000ft, all aircraft
are required to use the actual "local" altimeter setting, so that our
altimeters show true altitudes (or as close to it as possible).
We therefore correct our Altimeter Setting all the time when we're flying
long distances, by obtaining it from ATC and similar facilities.

But it all changes above 18000ft : All airplanes set their altimeters to the
"Standard" pressure setting, which is 29.92"Hg (1013.2Hpa), which is then
one and the same for all airplanes flying in American Airspace above
18000ft, also good on most other countries.

These "intermediate" altitudes are sometimes assigned several times due to
excess traffic.
All airline flights do have a "requested" cruise Flight Level.

Correct, read my previous posts.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
My understanding is that on long flights they can't reach their highest
cruising altitude until some fuel is burned off because they are too
heavy.

Matt


"Charles Newman" wrote in
message ...

I always thought the pilot could climb right to altitude as soon as
the
plane left the
runway


"Matt" wrote in message
...

"Charles Newman" wrote in
message Fuel reasons dont make much sense. You actually burn less
fuel
at higher
altitudes than lower ones. I found in flight simulator that at
altitudes
of
around
40,000 feet, you burn fuel at a much lower rate than at 30,000 feet.



May be because there are a lot more short haul flights than there were
20
or
30 years ago and they don't have time to get up to the higher
altitudes.

Also figure ATC delays more common these days which can hold aircraft
up
in
lower altitudes.

Matt

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:53:36 GMT, "Arnie"
wrote:

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
.. .
Once we climb through 18000ft on the way to our next assigned altitude, we
do not refer to "Altitudes" animore, but rather, to "Fligh Levels".
Flight levels then become FL 210 (for the equivalent to 21000ft), FL 290
(for 29000ft), FL 350 (for 35000ft) and so on.
The reason for this change is that, in the USA, below 18000ft, all aircraft
are required to use the actual "local" altimeter setting, so that our
altimeters show true altitudes (or as close to it as possible).
We therefore correct our Altimeter Setting all the time when we're flying
long distances, by obtaining it from ATC and similar facilities.

Interesting, thanks

Does this mean that below 18,000 feet, actual altitudefor a given
indicated altitude will fluctuate with air pressure?

In article ,
Dick Locke wrote:

Does this mean that below 18,000 feet, actual altitudefor a given
indicated altitude will fluctuate with air pressure?

... and temperature, too. At lower temperatures and lower air
pressures, indicated altitude will read higher than true altitude.

Correct.

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:53:36 GMT, "Arnie"
wrote:

"Dick Locke" wrote in message
.. .
Once we climb through 18000ft on the way to our next assigned altitude,
we
do not refer to "Altitudes" animore, but rather, to "Fligh Levels".
Flight levels then become FL 210 (for the equivalent to 21000ft), FL 290
(for 29000ft), FL 350 (for 35000ft) and so on.
The reason for this change is that, in the USA, below 18000ft, all
aircraft
are required to use the actual "local" altimeter setting, so that our
altimeters show true altitudes (or as close to it as possible).
We therefore correct our Altimeter Setting all the time when we're flying
long distances, by obtaining it from ATC and similar facilities.

Interesting, thanks

Does this mean that below 18,000 feet, actual altitudefor a given
indicated altitude will fluctuate with air pressure?

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:31:55 -0700,
Matt , in
wrote:
+ My understanding is that on long flights they can't reach their highest
+ cruising altitude until some fuel is burned off because they are too heavy.

Oftentimes you'll burn 50% or more of your fuel on the way
up. Cruising isn't hard, fighting gravity is.

James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.